[TGT Top 10 Legend] Mysterious Challlenger Midr...
- Last updated Sep 22, 2015 (TGT Launch)
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Wild
- 17 Minions
- 11 Spells
- 2 Weapons
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 5500
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 8/27/2015 (TGT Launch)
- dotFUEL
- Registered User
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- 5
- 16
- 22
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Battle Tag:
N/A
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Total Deck Rating
419
Hey Y'all,
I'm FUEL, and I'd like to introduce FUELADIN: the mysterious challenger deck to beat all the rest.
When I was reviewing all of the TGT cards, this one surprised me: when I did the math on it, it improved the value of midrange paladin by a substantial number even accounting for putting in those crappy paladin secrets.
So although I lost a few ranks playing lock and load hunter, I built this deck starting at the bottom of rank 6 and started playing. And... it snowballed. 42 wins and just 15 losses later, I hit legend. 74% winrate is higher than patron.
A few others have started noticing the value of challenger, but they're all still playing secretkeepers and mad scientists. These require you to play multiple copies of secrets, but that's actually not what you want. You want 1 copy to get a massive challenger turn, and then no more so your draw density afterwards becomes very high.
Yes, there will be games where you draw all 5 secrets before your challenger. That is a risk you have to take, playing this deck. However, these are far less common than than the games where you draw no secrets and basically auto-win with challenger. Remember that, on average, you will draw 1 to 2 secrets before turn 6.
What truly separates this deck from any other Challenger deck is the fact that it runs one of each secret. I firmly believe this is correct, although it is possible adding another avenge, possibly a noble sacrifice is not out of the question. This is because we are trying to optimize the VALUE GAINED from the challenger battlecry while minimizing the VALUE LOST from putting in paladin secrets. Every secret you put in (with the possible exception of avenge) decreases the power level of your deck. However, mysterious challenger wants more secrets, because each secret it puts into play is adding to its value and thereby INCREASING the power level of your deck. Thus, we want maximum challenger battlecry with the minimum number of secrets: and come to the conclusion that one set of as many secrets as possible is ideal. Any more secrets increases your odds of drawing them (right now you're sitting at 1-2 before turn 6 on average) while any less decreases the power of challenger. The other way to do this is play multiple copies of secrets and spam them before you play divine favor, which is also a viable strategy but requires building an entirely different deck. If you want to play the midrange version, I am convinced one set of secrets is correct.
The second challenger is necessary for consistency, as it is quite possibly the most powerful play in the game right now, and if you're playing the second it should be to finish applying lethal pressure, as the first one should almost have won you the game by itself.
Edit: we have a competitive hearthstone post now: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/3in1ln/mysterious_challenger_midrange_74_winrate_to/
TOP 10! http://imgur.com/RRTw4kH
General mulligan strategy: toss everything that's not a 2 drop, muster, or sometimes aldor. You can even keep the challenger if you know you are facing a slow deck.
Mage:
Mage is a tough matchup. Basically every deck is tempo or mechs, and tend to go faster than you do. Hard mull for 2 drops and muster. You need to try to keep up on board, because if you stabilize you should win with higher value stuff. Try to keep you health up, but stabilizing the board is a higher priority than protecting your health as long as you're above 15, even 12 effective health.
Priest:
If it's not dragon priest you basically win because you own the early game, so assume dragons. They have a lot of big big early game minions, and the lists that run deathlord are brutal to face. Consider keeping equality and aldor, even truesilver to try and punch through those piles of stats. If you don't get redemption off of challenger, consider saving it for tirion to grind through the late game better than them.
Hunter:
Since no one seems to have come up with a particularly strong lock and load list yet, assume aggro/hybrid. You're looking for your usual early game, with the possible keeps of consecration or truesilver if your early hand is already very good. Control the board as early as possible, using secrets you draw for tempo more than value if necessary. Be aware that after a point you may have to give up value in the midgame to protect your life total, but keep an eye out for a chance to start pushing towards lethal so you don't die to the steady shot over time.
Warrior:
There have been a lot of control warriors, with all the new value cards and most especially Varian, and in this matchup you are very favored. Your stickiness tends to just be too much for them. Mulligan for early game, consider keeping truesilver for their acolytes and shredder because it gives them fits.
Patron gives you a lot more trouble, as it does basically every paladin deck. Although I've won a few key games redempting Tirion or Belcher, or even better getting repentance on their patron (instant concede on that one) they feed off of your sticky minions. You can either rush them down and make them play inefficient to stay alive, or use secrets and taunts to disrupt their combos. Neither play is terribly consistent. Same mulligans as against control warrior, with the possible keep of equality.
Paladin:
Truth be told I would expect a lot of mirrors in the future, possibly with the more aggressive multiple-copies of secrets version. It is extremely important to establish the board first, so you hard mull for your 2 drops and muster. Hard. If you already have a good hand, you can keep consecration, and sometimes shredder and truesilver. Play Juggler on an empty board, minibot on a contested one. If you've won the race for the board, just try not to over-commit into consecration and slowly snowball your advantage.
Shaman:
Control shaman with elemental destruction is probably pretty good against you - in fact, even lightning storm is pretty strong against you. Try to control the board, with a focus on protecting your resilience (divine shield, deathrattle, etc) over board size. The usual mulligans.
Rogue:
Rogue did not get much love this expansion, so I would expect oil to return, perhaps my version with argent horseriders ;) Another deck with early board clears, focus on stickiness. When you can feel they might be tempted to clear, it's almost always correct to keep the murloc knight to refill the board post wipe. Try to put up enough pressure so they have to use flurries defensively rather than offensively. Hard mull for early game, if your hand is good enough you can keep shredder and truesilver
Druid:
A fantastic matchup for you, Druid has terrible AOE and poor ways to deal with your secrets. Just don't overplay into swipe. With a good hand, keep truesilver. Almost always correct to keep aldor to deal with their ramped-out minions.
Warlock:
Against zoo it is a race to take control of the board. At all costs you want to gain board control, including life total down to about 9 health. With a good hand you can keep truesilver and consecrate.
Against handlock I would expect high pressure wins you the game. Your secrets are really good vs handlock (although you still don't keep them in opening hand.) With a good hand you can keep shredder and equality. Don't overextend into a board clear.
Ok, look at it this way. The second challenger almost never gets played. (Amusingly enough, I am currently playing AGAINST this decklist and they just played a second challenger with no battlecry effect, but I assure you, this is an anomaly). In most matches you are looking to finish the game around turn 9 or 10, and so the odds of drawing your second mysterious challenger are quite low. The "consistency" of which i speak is the consistency of drawing the FIRST COPY. Drawing the second copy does not matter, all you want is the highest odds of drawing the first copy by turn 6. Playing challenger is so strong it is an absolute must to maximize your odds of drawing him, and therefore you must play two copies
Both MCs are needed, so that you can optimize the 5 secrets that are clogging the deck. Running just 1 MC is not an option.
Why argent horserider?
Good deck +1
Horserider was a late addition, meant to help counter enemy jugglers and provide sticky damage vs control decks. Definitely one of the cards it's possible to cut without me judging you ;)
I replaced it with warhorse trainer, what do you think about that?
I'm thinking about swapping out 1x Zombie Chow for 1x Coghammer.
Turn 2 Knife Juggler is a great play but only if he lives, and only if you have Muster for Battle in hand for turn 3.
Coghammer would give you a bit more of a chance to extract value from Knife Juggler as well as having a weapon in play for most of the game.
Thoughts?
love it, i would be happy so see a coghammer in the deck and chow is one of the first on the chopping block
I hate this deck, not so much playing it but I mean playing against it... so frustrating so I guess congrats?
Wow really? Get Tirion. That is one of the best legendaries in the game.
Not to worry, you did not come off as rude at all. Let's see if I can help. Muster is a strong card not because of its combo potential (that's merely a nice side effect) but because of its ability to provide solid board control in just one card. Much like Dr. Boom is an "army in a can" providing turn 7 worthy board control in a single card, Muster provides turn 3 worthy board control from a single card. It is a great way to compete for control in the early game or to repopulate the board after they wipe it. If you already have 3, perhaps even 2 minions on the board it is often correct to hold muster for after they wipe your board, much the way you use murloc knight later.
As for a win condition, this deck is a tempo deck. Whereas aggro decks go face, control decks slow down the game and gain life, waiting for their big swing turns, and combo decks draw a lot looking for their combo pieces, this deck is all about the board control. Your goal is to keep their board clear most of the time, while you have 2 maybe 3 minions. In this way they play something, you make a favorable trade and go face with your remaining board, while replacing the minion you traded off with a new one. They play something else, and again you respond, doing some trading and going face with the remainder. Thus we have an emphasis on sticky minions, but also on a fair amount of aggression. Basically this deck plays like midrange hunter - you develop one, maybe two threats per turn, but usually one, answering their minions as they come down while leaving some good sticky minions to go face every turn. In this way you don't run out of cards until turn 9-10, at which point you should be looking for lethal anyway. Against slower decks you want to be killing them on turn 7-9 so that they can't out-value you as you run out of cards. Against aggro they run out of cards faster than you so it doesn't matter. This deck has the flexibility of being the beatdown or the defender, depending on the matchup.
I see no card draw in this deck? Is that a problem? Surely one?
Explanation elsewhere in the comments
Fabulous deck. I've achieved a personal record in straight-wins with this deck.
That said, My losses seem to be coming from other pallies running Quartermaster.
I'm debating swapping Quartermaster for Argent Horserider, but I realize that's an important temp card for the 3-mana slot.
Any suggestions? I'm having a hard time deciding what to swap, or whether to swap at all. All cards currently in the deck are crucial it seems.
On another note, Eye for an Eye is useless on its own. But I was debating running it purely to add a bit more fear for the opponent. Imagine seeing 6 secrets pop on turn 6. :) Thoughts?
I heard it said that you can only pull a max of 5 secrets, but if you can pull 6 an eye for an eye could be fun flavor. I see qm as more of a value card, so I would perhaps cut Murdoch knight as I feel they both help add long term pressure to finish out a game. Or loatheb, or a Belcher
Oh, I didn't know about the max 5. Thanks for clarifying that.
I think I've only had 1 or 2 times where I had 5 secrets hit the board anyway. Since EFE is such a bad card, what about perhaps doubling up on one of the better secrets like Avenge?
This deck is stupid OP. Well done FUEL.
Second shredder is near the top of my list for things i want in the deck (maybe I should add this list to the post.) Loatheb can go - alongside chow it may well be the weakest link. It wins certain matchups (freeze mage, rogue) but if you're not running into many of those he's definitely a viable substitution.
My goodness Murloc Knight + Knife Juggler. Op as hell.
I have to say that this deck is impressively well rounded. So far I have gone 13/2 with it. It feels like it plays a lot like midrange hunter in that it often has a way to remove most threats and has massive Knife Juggler potential. running only 1 of the secretes is also a really good call, makes the deck way more consistent
why are there 2 Mysterious Challenger with only secrets for 1?
(sorry if this was already asked)