[TGT Top 10 Legend] Mysterious Challlenger Midr...
- Last updated Sep 22, 2015 (TGT Launch)
- Edit
- |
Wild
- 17 Minions
- 11 Spells
- 2 Weapons
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 5500
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 8/27/2015 (TGT Launch)
- dotFUEL
- Registered User
-
- 5
- 16
- 22
-
Battle Tag:
N/A
-
Region:
N/A
-
Total Deck Rating
419
Hey Y'all,
I'm FUEL, and I'd like to introduce FUELADIN: the mysterious challenger deck to beat all the rest.
When I was reviewing all of the TGT cards, this one surprised me: when I did the math on it, it improved the value of midrange paladin by a substantial number even accounting for putting in those crappy paladin secrets.
So although I lost a few ranks playing lock and load hunter, I built this deck starting at the bottom of rank 6 and started playing. And... it snowballed. 42 wins and just 15 losses later, I hit legend. 74% winrate is higher than patron.
A few others have started noticing the value of challenger, but they're all still playing secretkeepers and mad scientists. These require you to play multiple copies of secrets, but that's actually not what you want. You want 1 copy to get a massive challenger turn, and then no more so your draw density afterwards becomes very high.
Yes, there will be games where you draw all 5 secrets before your challenger. That is a risk you have to take, playing this deck. However, these are far less common than than the games where you draw no secrets and basically auto-win with challenger. Remember that, on average, you will draw 1 to 2 secrets before turn 6.
What truly separates this deck from any other Challenger deck is the fact that it runs one of each secret. I firmly believe this is correct, although it is possible adding another avenge, possibly a noble sacrifice is not out of the question. This is because we are trying to optimize the VALUE GAINED from the challenger battlecry while minimizing the VALUE LOST from putting in paladin secrets. Every secret you put in (with the possible exception of avenge) decreases the power level of your deck. However, mysterious challenger wants more secrets, because each secret it puts into play is adding to its value and thereby INCREASING the power level of your deck. Thus, we want maximum challenger battlecry with the minimum number of secrets: and come to the conclusion that one set of as many secrets as possible is ideal. Any more secrets increases your odds of drawing them (right now you're sitting at 1-2 before turn 6 on average) while any less decreases the power of challenger. The other way to do this is play multiple copies of secrets and spam them before you play divine favor, which is also a viable strategy but requires building an entirely different deck. If you want to play the midrange version, I am convinced one set of secrets is correct.
The second challenger is necessary for consistency, as it is quite possibly the most powerful play in the game right now, and if you're playing the second it should be to finish applying lethal pressure, as the first one should almost have won you the game by itself.
Edit: we have a competitive hearthstone post now: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/3in1ln/mysterious_challenger_midrange_74_winrate_to/
TOP 10! http://imgur.com/RRTw4kH
General mulligan strategy: toss everything that's not a 2 drop, muster, or sometimes aldor. You can even keep the challenger if you know you are facing a slow deck.
Mage:
Mage is a tough matchup. Basically every deck is tempo or mechs, and tend to go faster than you do. Hard mull for 2 drops and muster. You need to try to keep up on board, because if you stabilize you should win with higher value stuff. Try to keep you health up, but stabilizing the board is a higher priority than protecting your health as long as you're above 15, even 12 effective health.
Priest:
If it's not dragon priest you basically win because you own the early game, so assume dragons. They have a lot of big big early game minions, and the lists that run deathlord are brutal to face. Consider keeping equality and aldor, even truesilver to try and punch through those piles of stats. If you don't get redemption off of challenger, consider saving it for tirion to grind through the late game better than them.
Hunter:
Since no one seems to have come up with a particularly strong lock and load list yet, assume aggro/hybrid. You're looking for your usual early game, with the possible keeps of consecration or truesilver if your early hand is already very good. Control the board as early as possible, using secrets you draw for tempo more than value if necessary. Be aware that after a point you may have to give up value in the midgame to protect your life total, but keep an eye out for a chance to start pushing towards lethal so you don't die to the steady shot over time.
Warrior:
There have been a lot of control warriors, with all the new value cards and most especially Varian, and in this matchup you are very favored. Your stickiness tends to just be too much for them. Mulligan for early game, consider keeping truesilver for their acolytes and shredder because it gives them fits.
Patron gives you a lot more trouble, as it does basically every paladin deck. Although I've won a few key games redempting Tirion or Belcher, or even better getting repentance on their patron (instant concede on that one) they feed off of your sticky minions. You can either rush them down and make them play inefficient to stay alive, or use secrets and taunts to disrupt their combos. Neither play is terribly consistent. Same mulligans as against control warrior, with the possible keep of equality.
Paladin:
Truth be told I would expect a lot of mirrors in the future, possibly with the more aggressive multiple-copies of secrets version. It is extremely important to establish the board first, so you hard mull for your 2 drops and muster. Hard. If you already have a good hand, you can keep consecration, and sometimes shredder and truesilver. Play Juggler on an empty board, minibot on a contested one. If you've won the race for the board, just try not to over-commit into consecration and slowly snowball your advantage.
Shaman:
Control shaman with elemental destruction is probably pretty good against you - in fact, even lightning storm is pretty strong against you. Try to control the board, with a focus on protecting your resilience (divine shield, deathrattle, etc) over board size. The usual mulligans.
Rogue:
Rogue did not get much love this expansion, so I would expect oil to return, perhaps my version with argent horseriders ;) Another deck with early board clears, focus on stickiness. When you can feel they might be tempted to clear, it's almost always correct to keep the murloc knight to refill the board post wipe. Try to put up enough pressure so they have to use flurries defensively rather than offensively. Hard mull for early game, if your hand is good enough you can keep shredder and truesilver
Druid:
A fantastic matchup for you, Druid has terrible AOE and poor ways to deal with your secrets. Just don't overplay into swipe. With a good hand, keep truesilver. Almost always correct to keep aldor to deal with their ramped-out minions.
Warlock:
Against zoo it is a race to take control of the board. At all costs you want to gain board control, including life total down to about 9 health. With a good hand you can keep truesilver and consecrate.
Against handlock I would expect high pressure wins you the game. Your secrets are really good vs handlock (although you still don't keep them in opening hand.) With a good hand you can keep shredder and equality. Don't overextend into a board clear.
replace of tyrion and coghammer?
Isn't a 2nd Aldor better than an Argent Horserider? I'd think 2 Aldors would be huge against the huge amounts of fast druid.
Can we watch you stream the deck on twitch? What's your stream address?
Sadly, i do not currently have the technological capability for streaming. One day it is something I think I would enjoy, just as a hobby to hang and talk some hearthstone, but that day is still months away at least :/
I tell you guys, this deck is insane. I spent like 30 matches using midrange in Rank 1, always 3 or 4 stars left. Then I turned to this Paladin deck, I go from Rank 1 zero star to legendary losing only one match.
This deck is the most consistent deck I've ever played in hearthstone, it easily got me into top 400 legendary
http://imgur.com/gallery/z2tXicA - proof, thanks fuel!!
This Deck seems pretty nice. but no working at all for me. very inconsistency with the card draw.
I just wanted to say thanks a lot for publishing this deck early this season. I used it as the foundation for my current Secret Midrange Paladin, and actually ended up hitting legend top 200 by the 2nd week of the season, and went as high as top 100 over the course of the month. My winrate with this deck was roughly 76% from rank 16-legend.
In case anyone is interested, I took out equality and argent horserider for 2 haunted creepers because of the meta I was facing. Nonetheless, I'm a huge fan of the original version of this deck and recommend it for anyone trying to hit legend.
This is not made to work vs. Priest right?
The total lack of card draw makes it really unwinnable.
Nice deck nonetheless.
actually, the more times i played against priests the higher my winrate got (unless they are running nias' anti patron list with lots of weapon removal, that is tough). The thing is that priests are also a beatdown deck, (the more common dragon variant that is) so you just need to control the board against them and you should actually out value them almost every time. They have absolutely no answer for tirion, weak answers for boom and challenger. If you are ahead or equal on board you should beat them a good percentage of the time as long as you're not overplaying into holy nova.
these are very experimental changes, i simply updated what my current list is. If you look at it as one for one swaps it doesn't necessarily make much sense, so you must look at the big picture, which was a 4 way rotation. Coghammer is replacing not an aldor but the second truesilver, because I feel having 2 truesilvers and a coghammer is too many weapons and coghammer helps control the board earlier and stronger (although second truesilver is now number one on my list of things to put back in) and it is actually blessing of kings that is replacing the second aldor, because it is a proactive rather than reactive play, and this deck in the majority of matchups wants to be proactive. Since both of these changes mess up the curve, you can then look at the rotation as a whole and see that a 3 was replaced for a 4 and a 4 for a 3, and the curve works out overall. This was my process - trying to add in more proactive rather than reactive plays, replacing weapon for weapon, and keeping the curve strong overall.
From rank 6 to 2 in 3 days, never went so far. I'm confident that I can reach legend, thx so much for this deck bro
beat her down as quickly as possible and hope there's no nova doomsayer (always keep your owl for this) either force her to use her burn to slow your roll or just pop the block before alex can target you. unfavored but definitely not unwinnable
I enjoy this deck. I have always admired the power of Murloc knights since I seen them released, and they work VERY well in this deck. This deck has 2 win conditions, first off is of course having a nice board setup and then drop a Mysterious Challenger to further enhance the board. But alternately after playing a Mysterious Challenger if your board gets cleared I think the Murloc Knight is very good at keeping the board in your favor. I did add a second Noble Sacrifice, I feel a 2nd one gives you some early game stickiness to the board. It wastes a warriors weapon charge, and is a "free" trade against any 1 or most 2 drops your opponent is attacking with.
Over all I like the deck a lot! But I did add in a second Peacekeeper because their utility is just to strong not to have 2.
Wanted to post again- I rode this deck all the way to legend for the second straight month, but with a couple of small changes.
I felt that there weren't as many fast decks so the zombie chow was unnecessary, so added back the second aldor peackeeper.
I also felt that Loatheb was not pulling his weight in this deck, so I ditched him for a coghammer. Previously I had tried inserting Harrison Jones in an effort to make the mirror match (not to mention the patron matchup) more tolerable, but I found that the card is waaaay too slow and really is an anti tempo play given that a 5/4 body is so easily killed.
One thing I found interesting is that people would often times leave your tokens up not expecting a coghammer, and I was often able to capitalize on this and catch them off guard. Of course, if you're super lucky and you are able to use it to protect a minion on turn three and maybe clear his board, then you've almost certainly already won the game right there on the spot.
Like I posted a couple of weeks ago on my first comment, I still strongly disagree with omitting a second aldor peacekeeper. It is absolutely vital to be able to deal with opposition minions immediately on turn three- or, just as importantly, on a late game turn in a situation where they drop a massive minion, which you can then aldor, and then proceed to push for face.
I strongly dislike zombie chow because there are plenty of ways to seize back control of the board. Unlike with control decks where you don't care about the opposition healing, when you're playing this deck you absolutely do... and healing them runs counter intuitive to this deck's tempo theme imo.
For those asking about card draw- it's 100% not necessary in this deck. Forget trying to shoehorn that card into this deck.
One final piece of advice- the way I play this deck is simply look for a good curve. Really doesn't matter how you get it, just find a way to smooth out the curve and toss away all your secrets. There are a couple of exceptions- maybe hold onto competitive spirit if you already have a muster, etc.
Heh, was about to post my deck I got legend with, but turns out you have pretty much the same build. I must have played you early on in ladder, because I emulated a mid-range deck I fought early on. Works like a charm. 1 copy of each secret, 2 MCs --> best value
Got Legend with pretty much the same setup, but -2 Murloc Knight, +1 Piloted Shredder, +1 Tuskarr Jouster (better against aggro, imo).
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/sMcoYA8.png
Great deck, lots of fun to play, too. Look out for those Patron Warriors and Freeze Mages, though.
EDIT: Just looked through your class strategies. Very on-point, great advice overall. I would mention one thing, and that is that Control Pally and Tempo/Miracle Rogue are also unfavorable matchups and require some careful early game aggro plays. Control Warrior seems very 50-50 for me, and Dragon Priest is a breeze. I would say Priest, Shaman, Warlock, and Druid are all extremely favorable matchups; Paladin, Rogue, and Hunter are even matchups; and Mage and Warrior are the unfavorable to very unfavorable matches.
Not to be an argumentative twat or anything =P But I feel like a typical combo druid is a very tough matchup with this deck. To me, most hunters are impossible, mage is pretty easy, and control warrior and control paladin are auto wins. Obviously patron is almost an auto loss too. Rogues are tough as well, but thankfully I ran into very few. I didn't see nearly as many priests this season as I did at the end of last season, and that was always a super tough matchup as well. But hey, we both got there the same I guess lol
dot, I meant to thank you earlier for this list... but I reached legend with your deck last month! good shit. feels so much more consistent than other secret based decks
You say the 2nd challenger is for consistency but what do you need to be consistent? If you've already played one challenger and it used all the secrets in the deck... its just a 6/6 body which you could get from a different minion... if you were running more than 1 copy of a secret okay... but explain why you need the 2nd one in a different way please?
Probably to guarantee you will have one on your hand by turn 6 or 7.
I run 2 on other deck, some times i don't get any of them.
But i really don't see this deck as really based on secrets. Secrets crearly aren't a win condition, since it has many strong minions. I think one mysterious could be replaced.