Hearthpwn

This deck is really well refined compared to the last.

-1 barrel for +1 Coin feels really good;

barrel is most often dead in my hand, doesn't always kill and doesn't always trigger. Intuition tells me that you should barrel -> Doomsayer, but I find it's actually better to Doomsayer -> barrel. The 7HP on Doomsayer allows you to trade minions more often than not vs the 5HP provided by barrel, rather than just preventing their drop. Therefore, if Doomsayer is required for barrel to be a good drop next turn--if A must precede B--naturally its better to have 2A -> 1B. It's a nice little optimization.

An advanced combo I've found is, if you'd have lethal with Oracles, but need at least 2-3 of them and can only access 1 of them for whatever reason, playing Valeera + Secret Passage generates two Shadows, giving you three Oracles from only one in hand. I used to think that Secret Passage is really bad, but once you get to understand it, it feels way better to play with it than without, especially because of how dispensable it is at one mana to free up your hand. Same with Coin.

Two Togwaggle's was something I was playing with, but it more often than not gets out of control and you end up putting too many things in your deck. I like to keep Togwaggles > Lab Recruiter in control matchups, so much so that I replace even Lab Recruiter and Shadowstep if Oracle isn't in the opening hand. This is especially true for Jade Druid. In these matchups, going fast is all that matters to me, if you're provided with early combo cards. You can freely mill your own Brann and Valeera here, I find. If you keep drawing and keep playing 2/2s & 2/3s, milling yourself in the process, you can draw all their deck by turn 9-12.

Tastyfin is just so good--it can't be stated enough. It makes the deck so much more consistent, and one Tastyfin is essentially giving you more value than one Oracle in terms of draw. This is because: If you don't land on it within the first 5-6 turns (1/3rd deck drawn), you've either already drawn some of your murlocs (good), or strong removal/turn skips (good). If you do draw it however, you don't just draw +2 cards, you draw +2 minions. And you don't even do that: you draw +2 murlocs that give more draw. The result is a self-reinforcing loop of positive EV. Because you (predictably) drew murlocs that draw cards, the next draw that the drawn cards provide is more predictable and consistent in itself, because you're drawing from a less varied pool! Swindle will now draw more predicable minions, and murlocs draw non-specific cards slightly more predicatably! Tastyfin is a win-win card regardless of if you draw it. It might even be worth running two Tastyfins just for the principle of its value, although maybe not - one is good in itself.

Also speaking of Swindle, I feel like the second one to be played is almost always dead in hand. After the first I never seem to need another. Need to test more. -1 Swindle +1 Tastyfin might be good.

Thanks for the insightful response!

I played around with many versions of the deck, and depth charge was kind of meta dependent. It’s really good against token druid, odd Paladin, and evolve shaman, for example, but I can see how sometimes it’s dead. Another coin is probably a good switch if you’re not seeing a lot of board based decks. If I ran into A lot jade druid, I would swap in flik skyshiv instead of barrel for easy win.

Two togwaggles scheme feels right in a nzoth version of mill, but as you said, sometimes you don’t want that many oracles in your deck, because you need to draw to your stall spells.

I agree that 1st tastyfin is really good, but if you include 2, getting the 2nd tastyfin off the first tastyfin can set you back a lot and is too much draw, sort of like the 2nd swindle. Honestly for the 2nd swindle, I sometimes just use it to cycle to a spell. It is actually really powerful to use it that way if you’ve already shuffled a bunch of oracles, since it can find you that hiding vanish, evasion, or cloak at the bottom of the deck. Try using it that way and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I actually disagree with Flik vs Jade. I think Flik only has a place vs Priest stealing your Lab Recruits. I struggle to find situations where it saves me turns from face damage in the same way as Cloak and Evasion, and so I think it's only good at removing cards from enemy deck to enable your lethal. VS Jade Druid, to me, it has to be either Skulking Geist or having a fast mill to burn their cards. The problem with Geist is obviously just the fact it's another dead card against every other archetype.

Thanks for the Swindle feedback. I'll try that :). I don't have a decktracker right now as Innkeeper is broken. So maybe Swindle would feel 10x better for me if I could remember what I had in my deck lol.

How would skulking geist be better than flik??? Flik kills every single jade golem on the board and you can just shuffle infinite fliks into your deck. And it’s way more useful in matchups that aren’t jade druid, albeit still pretty slow. It sometimes helped against secret mage for dealing with cloud prince since you can essentially get rid of a minion + a fireball from their hand/deck. Few other situations it was nice, like getting rid of tickatus copies and giants. Not super great to have in fast matchups though which is why it didn’t make the final cut.

ah yeah, it’s hard without deck tracker, though I’ve gotten pretty good at just remembering which stall spells are left in my deck.

Because Druids can do the exact same with Jade Golems as you can do with Lab Recruiters. You stalemate and it isn't exactly a win. Skulking actually lets you win, instead of the alternative case where the winner is decided by whoever values there time in life more by conceding and moving on lol, rather than playing for 1h+.

And yeah, Skulking + Flik is so slow. I still need to test it out more but yeah.

Oh also, this has probably been done 1000x before, but I made this fatigue & draw calculator today, just to help me spot lethal, how far from lethal both players are, etc :). It's already helped me spot lethal a few times where I would've missed it. I'm big noob tho so idk how useful this is to professionals such as yourself. You just need to make a copy into your own Drive to get edit permission and to start using :)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10GoB4d8NztXPbmFz2EQja1anVi_-TVJz/view?usp=sharing

You don’t understand. Flik makes it unwinnable for jade druid. I have 100% win rate against jade druid if I have flik on deck. They can shuffle infinitely, yes, but you can just kill their entire board infitely and summon 4/4s. You don’t beat them through coldlight Oracle, you beat them by having infinite board clears and pressure with 4/4 bodies. You can just shuffle flik instead of coldlight Oracle. It’s really not that slow. 4/4s do a lot of damage if you have several on board. And it’s awesome you made a calculator for it! I am still not great at calculating lethal so if I’m not sure or am worried about killing myself in the process, sometimes I miss it. I’ll try it out.

Thank you, and good luck with it! It's a really insane tool if you're using it properly :).

And I guess I'm getting the wrong impression. I don't know what the standard wild Jade Druid looks like, but some of those that I faced have been full of big creatures enough that the 4/4s didn't feel relevant. I'll try more, sorry for misunderstanding.

The only problem that I’ve really had minionwise in jade druid is ysera. If they play ysera (with portals), then you force all the portals out of the deck with coldlight and then vanish them all away. I haven’t really seen any other big minion jade druids, so maybe you faced an anomaly.

HDT do have a fatigue counter plugin tho, should try that, cuz it's built in-game whenever you target decks will show up a counter

The fatigue counter of deck tracker helps, but if you are going to brann + double or triple coldlight, the math isn’t that easy for making sure that you kill them as well as don’t kill yourself lol

no no, plugin from github, it display how many draws until ones dies

oh really? Never was aware that existed. I'll look into it.

Cool deck! Love mill rogue, this one works great 👍🏻 

Thanks! Glad it’s working out for you :)