Cards that need to be removed from arena

  • Death knight cards

    It's been a little bit since vicious fledgling wastoned down in appearance and now every class gets its own orange vicious fledgling with a cool battlecry.

    There's already another thread but apparently nobody with influence reads the forum anyway since its been like a month of this?? I've hd games with 3 drafted druid DK's, discovers from lotus agents, etc beyond even the 'normal' 1 potential dk card in a deck.

    Can we just get this fixed within a reasonable timeframe instead of giving the playerbase the middle finger as devs fondle each other in their cubicles?
  • We don't have any plan to take Death Knights out of arena. In most cases they are very powerful, but not any more powerful than other highly drafted legendary cards. The circumstance where people are drafting and playing powerful legendary cards from the set that just released is something we think is positive so long as they aren't exceeding the power level of all other cards in existence.
  • 10/25/2017 12:25 PMPosted by H7qgr81fabfa
    10/19/2017 09:39 AMPosted by August Dean Ayala
    We don't have any plan to take Death Knights out of arena. In most cases they are very powerful, but not any more powerful than other highly drafted legendary cards. The circumstance where people are drafting and playing powerful legendary cards from the set that just released is something we think is positive so long as they aren't exceeding the power level of all other cards in existence.

    No one believes you. It doesnt matter if you say it isn’t broken. They are. We have experienced it. Get that through your thick skulls.

    Please explain, in full detail, what are we supposed to do when anduin is dropped on the board? What? The power level of decks in arena are NOT as powerful as constructed decks. They are NOT. So how are you supposed to keep a board? The answer: you can’t. You lose because whatever you throw down doesn’t stick. How is that not “above the power level of all else”? I lose a game i would have won, because he can keep spamming hero powers at my minions? I seriously want an explanation on how this is winnable.


    When I post something in terms of power level it's speaking just in terms of statistics. While perception is important, it's hard to say 'this does or doesn't feel powerful to most people' because there is inevitably someone who disagrees. Perception is extremely important to us. Many of the card changes in Hearthstone's history have been specifically to address perception, not power level. That said, statistically, you aren't any more likely to win a game after you play Anduin in arena than you are Ysera. While most players (62ish%) do win after they play Anduin, that isn't much different than most end-game minions/spells.

    Normally when we look at power statistics, we look at look at an advanced metric based off of draw/win rate. That essentially means how likely are you to win a game in which you have drawn this card. The cards I tend to see the most conversation around removing are the Priest, Mage, and Warlock 'DK' cards. Strictly in terms of statistics, the most powerful DK card is the Warrior one, and it's not that close. The point of all this is not to say you are wrong if you think DK's are too powerful, but dealing with issues of perception is different than dealing with issues of fairness/balance. If it was a fairness issue, I think we could feel good about removing the suite of cards that was too powerful with the idea that perception of power level would change because we solved a real statistical problem. Because we know these cards are not an actual power outlier (at least not the ones in question), I think it's reasonable to believe that the outcry to remove cards from arena would move on to whatever subset of cards is second on the list. Having powerful feeling cards in arena is important. If we removed all the cards people think are powerful that would probably result in an experience that is less fun. Ultimately we think arena is a better place for DK cards rather than a worse one, but given that the feedback has been so split I encourage you all to keep giving your opinions on the subject.
  • 10/27/2017 09:47 PMPosted by August Dean Ayala


    When I post something in terms of power level it's speaking just in terms of statistics. While perception is important, it's hard to say 'this does or doesn't feel powerful to most people' because there is inevitably someone who disagrees.


    [quote]Oh so your decisions are based on statistics and not perceptions? So that's why you remove mediocre cards like Vicious Fledgling (value rating 67 on Heartharena) after an outcry by hundreds of arena newbs, but actual broken cards like Shadowreaper Anduin (value rating 128) and Frost Lich Jaina (124 value) are totally fine. "We are objective hurr durr."


    No. What I said was that it's difficult to talk about perception in black and white terms because there is always someone who will disagree. Not that we don't make decisions based on perception. Within that same comment, I mentioned we do make changes based on perception. Fledgling is a good example of that.