Except aggro will have more playable cards than control in the first 3-4 turns. More playable cards = more decisions, not fewer. So, using your logic, the control deck is much easier for the beginning turns against an aggro deck, and the aggro deck is harder. This fits my experience for sure.
I'm just sitting here kinda stunned by this thread. I never thought I would see the day when a genuine conversation about aggro would happen on hearthpwn, with actually well-thought and well-reasoned comments. Way to go, all the people who posted above me!
As all of them said, and as I try to say anytime it's relevant: every deck requires significant skill to play it well (though some require more skill than others). I have my own personal preferences, which are different from other people. And it always looks easy when your opponent plays the perfect cards in the perfect order to kill you. And you might think, "Well, that was easy for them - they must have no skill - they just got super lucky and drew "the nuts." A monkey could have beat me just as easily as they did."
But the thing is, you cannot see their cards to know what they chose NOT to do, and you can't see their mind to see if they were effectively guessing what you had available and then countering it on purpose. So even when a victory looks like it was easy and inevitable for your opponent, it rarely actually was.
I just wonder. What the fuck is your rank, If you’re seeing that type of sh*t?
Rank 2 but also play casual. This observation is from the years I've played. Never changes.
It is absolutely impossible to see any of the things you are talking about at rank 2, except maybe the names. Nobody gets to rank 2 playing anything even remotely close to what you are describing.
Clearly also said CASUAL but whatever floats your boat.
Yes, and I did not mention casual. Who the freaking heck cares if casual has bad players? It's casual! I go to casual with intentionally bad decks just to complete "play x cards" quests, and I literally don't care if I win those games. Seriously, who even cares what their opponent does in casual? Can't believe I'm even interacting with this thread. Edit: actually I just remembered hearthpwn has an ignore feature. Sweet!
I just wonder. What the fuck is your rank, If you’re seeing that type of sh*t?
Rank 2 but also play casual. This observation is from the years I've played. Never changes.
It is absolutely impossible to see any of the things you are talking about at rank 2, except maybe the names. Nobody gets to rank 2 playing anything even remotely close to what you are describing.
There are only so many ways to build a good deck of a certain archetype. Many people start with a "netdeck" list and then change a few cards to fit their preferences. Newsflash, however -- changing even just 3 cards is 10% different from the original deck, and is enough of a change to count as a new deck. So, there ya go, that person just made their own deck.
We couldn’t even see if it was worth a nerf you people are nerfing cards can even be played. Why even play cards if they are gonna be hut nerf bat b4 they even came out
It definitely needed to be nerfed, but nerfing Reckless Experimenter in this way because of this one combo is frustrating as hell.
I dunno. My opinion is that cost reduction should never be allowed to reduce to zero, ever. Reducing the cost of anything to zero is always potentially game-breaking, so it should never be possible to begin with.
What blows my mind is that Blizzard didn't realize this interaction could take place when they designed the new mech. I think it was about 15 minutes after they announced it that Twitter exploding with the problems and how Priest could create a turn 5 OTK.
They have an entire development team and no one figured this out?
This was EXACTLY my thought as well. Seems like it must have been designed and tested in a pretty cursory manner. I don't see how a whole team of guys actually playtesting and looking through the cards could miss the Reckless Experimenter interaction. Only thing that makes sense is that the whole design process for Snip Snap was on a fast track for some reason, and they rushed past some of the normal play testing and tuning.
In a competitive game, people play the things that win the most. If high winrate decks exist, the motivation is very low to innovate new decks that may or may not also have high winrates.
Side note: You're completely wrong that no one ever innovates new decks beyond the first few days after expac/balance patch. It took a solid couple of months before someone invented Keleseth Rogue.
Edit: there is a reason why people brag about having a high winrate with their "homebrew" decks -- homebrew decks are rarely, if ever, better than the established, high performing decks.
It's hilarious that the OP automatically assumes that someone using all the available time automatically means their opponent is being a jerk, and that anyone who takes until the rope is always being a jerk. I guess the OP has never watched a championship before, where nearly every single turn ropes.
We're not in a championship game. There's zero money on the line. Taking a full 90 seconds in this game is ridiculous.
Sure, most of the time the full 90 seconds isn't needed. Which is why I don't usually rope. And yes, there is no money on the line.
But it's a competitive game, and sometimes
winning the game requires some complex gameplay,
and therefore the occasional rope. Maybe you're desperately trying to figure out if anything can possibly get you out of a really bad position. Those are legitimate times to rope.
This is all assuming you actually care about winning - not sure if you do, but I do. I don't have time to play 500 games a month. If I'm trying to climb, every game I play matters, and therefore I'll rope anytime I need to.
LOL you definitely only netdeck
You totally got me. I never try to create my own decks ever. And I certainly don't have a deck that I originated here on Hearthpwn, which has over 200k views. Nope. And you definitely didn't lose an argument or anything, since your response is purely an ad hominem attack. And this entire post is definitely not sarcasm. (You might need to look up what ad hominem means though.)
It's hilarious that the OP automatically assumes that someone using all the available time automatically means their opponent is being a jerk, and that anyone who takes until the rope is always being a jerk. I guess the OP has never watched a championship before, where nearly every single turn ropes.
We're not in a championship game. There's zero money on the line. Taking a full 90 seconds in this game is ridiculous.
Sure, most of the time the full 90 seconds isn't needed. Which is why I don't usually rope. And yes, there is no money on the line.
But it's a competitive game, and sometimes winning the game requires some complex gameplay, and therefore the occasional rope. Maybe you're desperately trying to figure out if anything can possibly get you out of a really bad position. Those are legitimate times to rope.
This is all assuming you actually care about winning - not sure if you do, but I do. I don't have time to play 500 games a month. If I'm trying to climb, every game I play matters, and therefore I'll rope anytime I need to.
It's hilarious that the OP automatically assumes that someone using all the available time automatically means their opponent is being a jerk, and that anyone who takes until the rope is always being a jerk. I guess the OP has never watched a championship before, where nearly every single turn ropes.
That being said, I rope the opponent exactly when I am actually trying to figure out the best choice. I never rope for the heck of it, and the assumption that everyone only ropes to be jerks is a very jerk-like thing to assume.
Call me crazy, but I like to think people take their full turn because they are actually thinking about their choices. God forbid anyone thinks hard about their plays.
I agree that the crafting guides are now obselete and you might as well just hold each card you get from this point on.
That was already true for every non golden card. Tough luck that you only just now learned the most basic rule of card collecting in hearthstone. Never disenchant anything, no matter how bad it looks, until it rotates to wild. Even without buffs, there have been many cases of a card that looked bad getting better later, when new cards are added that work well with it.
You should have learned a while ago to not disenchant stuff. Your fault, not the fault of Blizzard for finally doing actual balance rather than always only nerfing.
1
Except aggro will have more playable cards than control in the first 3-4 turns. More playable cards = more decisions, not fewer. So, using your logic, the control deck is much easier for the beginning turns against an aggro deck, and the aggro deck is harder. This fits my experience for sure.
7
I'm just sitting here kinda stunned by this thread. I never thought I would see the day when a genuine conversation about aggro would happen on hearthpwn, with actually well-thought and well-reasoned comments. Way to go, all the people who posted above me!
As all of them said, and as I try to say anytime it's relevant: every deck requires significant skill to play it well (though some require more skill than others). I have my own personal preferences, which are different from other people. And it always looks easy when your opponent plays the perfect cards in the perfect order to kill you. And you might think, "Well, that was easy for them - they must have no skill - they just got super lucky and drew "the nuts." A monkey could have beat me just as easily as they did."
But the thing is, you cannot see their cards to know what they chose NOT to do, and you can't see their mind to see if they were effectively guessing what you had available and then countering it on purpose. So even when a victory looks like it was easy and inevitable for your opponent, it rarely actually was.
5
Yes, and I did not mention casual. Who the freaking heck cares if casual has bad players? It's casual! I go to casual with intentionally bad decks just to complete "play x cards" quests, and I literally don't care if I win those games. Seriously, who even cares what their opponent does in casual? Can't believe I'm even interacting with this thread. Edit: actually I just remembered hearthpwn has an ignore feature. Sweet!
2
It is absolutely impossible to see any of the things you are talking about at rank 2, except maybe the names. Nobody gets to rank 2 playing anything even remotely close to what you are describing.
7
Yeah, original poster definitely walked straight into this one. Direct quote from his little rant about names: "Add in bad spelling"
Synthetic has a 'c,' not a 'k' - bad spelling means bad player, right?
1
Final thought on this topic:
There are only so many ways to build a good deck of a certain archetype. Many people start with a "netdeck" list and then change a few cards to fit their preferences. Newsflash, however -- changing even just 3 cards is 10% different from the original deck, and is enough of a change to count as a new deck. So, there ya go, that person just made their own deck.
0
I dunno. My opinion is that cost reduction should never be allowed to reduce to zero, ever. Reducing the cost of anything to zero is always potentially game-breaking, so it should never be possible to begin with.
1
This was EXACTLY my thought as well. Seems like it must have been designed and tested in a pretty cursory manner. I don't see how a whole team of guys actually playtesting and looking through the cards could miss the Reckless Experimenter interaction. Only thing that makes sense is that the whole design process for Snip Snap was on a fast track for some reason, and they rushed past some of the normal play testing and tuning.
3
In a competitive game, people play the things that win the most. If high winrate decks exist, the motivation is very low to innovate new decks that may or may not also have high winrates.
Side note: You're completely wrong that no one ever innovates new decks beyond the first few days after expac/balance patch. It took a solid couple of months before someone invented Keleseth Rogue.
Edit: there is a reason why people brag about having a high winrate with their "homebrew" decks -- homebrew decks are rarely, if ever, better than the established, high performing decks.
0
You totally got me. I never try to create my own decks ever. And I certainly don't have a deck that I originated here on Hearthpwn, which has over 200k views. Nope. And you definitely didn't lose an argument or anything, since your response is purely an ad hominem attack. And this entire post is definitely not sarcasm. (You might need to look up what ad hominem means though.)
0
Sure, most of the time the full 90 seconds isn't needed. Which is why I don't usually rope. And yes, there is no money on the line.
But it's a competitive game, and sometimes winning the game requires some complex gameplay, and therefore the occasional rope. Maybe you're desperately trying to figure out if anything can possibly get you out of a really bad position. Those are legitimate times to rope.
This is all assuming you actually care about winning - not sure if you do, but I do. I don't have time to play 500 games a month. If I'm trying to climb, every game I play matters, and therefore I'll rope anytime I need to.
1
It's hilarious that the OP automatically assumes that someone using all the available time automatically means their opponent is being a jerk, and that anyone who takes until the rope is always being a jerk. I guess the OP has never watched a championship before, where nearly every single turn ropes.
That being said, I rope the opponent exactly when I am actually trying to figure out the best choice. I never rope for the heck of it, and the assumption that everyone only ropes to be jerks is a very jerk-like thing to assume.
Call me crazy, but I like to think people take their full turn because they are actually thinking about their choices. God forbid anyone thinks hard about their plays.
0
Math challenged much?
If you want any realistic chance of this on turn 5, it's 2 each of reckless experimenter and coppertail imposter. That's 880 dust, not 440.
2
Problem with this post: you're comparing a common to a legendary. Enough said.
3
That was already true for every non golden card. Tough luck that you only just now learned the most basic rule of card collecting in hearthstone. Never disenchant anything, no matter how bad it looks, until it rotates to wild. Even without buffs, there have been many cases of a card that looked bad getting better later, when new cards are added that work well with it.
You should have learned a while ago to not disenchant stuff. Your fault, not the fault of Blizzard for finally doing actual balance rather than always only nerfing.