- ThatGoodMeak
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Member for 8 years, 11 months, and 9 days
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Flood posted a message on I opened the best pack ever!? 4 LEGENDARIES!Posted in: General Discussion -
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honj90 posted a message on Best and Worst Card in the game (so far)Posted in: Card DiscussionQuote from andrewc5120 »you seem to think i'm arguing that you're saying it's a bad card. when in fact i'm only arguing it's an incredible, near irreplaceable card (in a LOT of decks). that isn't straw man, friend. azure drake is the only card in the game with it's ability. the only other card that comes close is Bloodmage Thalnos which we all know is one of the greatest, most used cards in the game. and even thalnos' effect isn't as good (deathrattle card draw can be negated via silence). you're saying it's ONLY decent (you actually used the word mediocre). and i'm arguing against that saying it's one of the best, if not the best card in the game. fire elemental (6 mana) is awesome, every shaman deck runs it. do you know what other card every shaman deck runs? azure. drake. sylvanas was OP at 5 mana. a 5 mana 5/5 with an INCREDIBLE effect, even when silenced, is still a 5/5 body on the board. now for the 2nd part of my previous question. what 5 mana card would you like to see that's so much better than the only "mediocre" azure drake without being ridiculously OP (sylvanas)? i've not once twisted your words. class specific cards are a cop out when a neutral is so good it's used in almost every deck. not to mention the 5 mana class specific cards are also used WITH azure drake.
It is a straw man, because when I say that "deal X damage", like Stormpike Commando, is a better ability, you're bringing up Nightblade. When I say charge is a better ability, you compare it to Reckless Rocketeer instead of answering my arguments. You're also bringing up shaman again, which as I already said is a good home for Azure Drake thanks to the spellpower synergy.
In addition, you keep asking me what an alternative for a good 5-drop is, when I already answered that question: a 5-mana yeti, that is a 5-mana 5/6 or 6/6. If you insist on taking an existing card, it would maybe surprise you that every card that costs 6 or more would be fairly strong if not outright OP if it cost 5 mana. And I'm not talking about the obvious stuff like Cairne Bloodhoof, Sylvanas Windrunner, or Boulderfist Ogre. Even the lowly Kidnapper was considered too strong at 5 mana (source).
As I said, the main reason Azure Drake is so popular is that it's the best out of a bunch of mediocre or unplayable alternatives. It's certainly not the best card in the game, because class specific cards are far more OP. It's not even the best neutral card in the game, that would probably be Leeroy Jenkins. It might be the best neutral rare in the game, but it doesn't really have much competition for that title after Defender of Argus and Argent Commander were both nerfed (although Knife Juggler would probably give it a run for its money)
On a side-note, since you mentioned it, I also believe that intermediate players quite often overvalue Bloodmage Thalnos. Yes, it's one of my favourite cards and he's a key card in decks that can use him extensively, like Miracle Rogue, Shaman and Mage and he does amazing work in this decks. Howver, he's only played in the 3 decks I mentioned above (and rarely in druid or handlock decks), because the spellpower is fairly expensive: He costs two mana and you need to wait until he dies for him to cycle. That means you only play him when you really want spellpower (shaman) or deck-thinning and spellpower (mage, miracle rogue) and don't just randomly put him in any deck that has a few spells.
Anyway, I already explained my reasoning and my arguments extensively in my previous posts and I don't want this off-topic discussion to drag on forever. If someone disagrees and can find a specific flaw or counter-argument they're welcome to message me.
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honj90 posted a message on Best and Worst Card in the game (so far)Posted in: Card DiscussionQuote from andrewc5120 »pretty sure every deck synergizes well with card draw. mage, warrior, druid, rogue, and shaman all benefit greatly from having spellpower as well. many legendary decks from all of those heros use drakes in their decklist. they don't use stormpike and they don't use Nightblade, which according to you has the better ability. do you know why? because azure drake is better. you've forgotten about nightblade when talking about the slim pickings in the 5 mana spot. and although charge is a wonderful ability, the only good charge minion viable in top tier decks (aside from aggro trap hunter) is Argent Commander. but that's because it has divine shield and is heavily used to promote board control as lots of troublesome minions, Azure Drake for instance, get taken out by it.
please tell me, if you could have any card in the game be 5 mana and not be incredibly overpowered replace azure drake what would it be? Reckless Rocketeer? bahaha.
Again, please calm down, carefully read my post before replying and don't try to twist my words.
No deck would would say "no" to free spellpower or card draw. Azure Drake does however come with a very real opportunity cost: It takes up a 5-mana slot in your deck. Currently that opportunity cost is very low, because the other 5-mana options are situational or garbage. That doesn't make him the best card in the game, just a card that fills a much needed niche: a turn 5 play that's good on an empty board. Again, that's only because there are no other good options, not because he's the best card in the game.
I obviously I didn't forget Nightblade. Or Abomination. Or Darkscale Healer. Or Stampeding Kodo. I figured people would understand that these and other similar 5-drops fall into the "situational" category. And anyway, Nightbladehas no place in this argument, as it can only deal damage to players, unlike Stormpike Commando, Ironforge Rifleman, Fire Elemental and Elven Archer.
"Charge" and "deal X damage" (again, not "deal X damage to the enemy hero") are in general more powerful abilities than "Draw a card" as long as we're talking about high mana cost cards. The goal of Hearthstone is to bring your opponent to 0, not draw the most cards, and that's achieved by immediate board impact. The developers understand that, that's why they gave minions that have those abilities much lower stats. It is obvious that cards like Stormpike Commando and Reckless Rocketeer sacrificed too many stat points and that's why they are considered bad cards.
As I already said, the best way to compare the abilities is via the following thought experiment: If you could choose to have the Azure Drake gain charge instead of drawing a card, what do you think would be the most commonly picked option?
Again, I'm not saying Azure Drake is a bad card. But he's not the best card in the game either, even more so if we include class specific cards as has been done in this thread. The main reason he sees so much play is simply that the alternatives suck. Incidentally, one of the reasons druid is considered one of the best classes in the game, simply because they have access to a non-situational 5-drop. And the reason every deck included a Sylvanas Windrunner back when she cost 5 mana.
EDIT: Also, try avoiding that in the future http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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honj90 posted a message on Best and Worst Card in the game (so far)Posted in: Card DiscussionQuote from andrewc5120 »Just wanted to comment on azure drake because people seem to overrate him. He's actually a pretty mediocre card. Decent, but nothing amazing.
The reason he is played in a lot of decks is that there are simply no alternatives, it's the only playable neutral 5-drop (not counting situational cards like Auctioneer and Harrison Jones obviously). That's the same reason Sylvannas was played in every single deck back when she cost 5.
LOL what? i don't know if you have any sort of knowledge about card value, but azure drake is one of the most amazing cards in the game. not only is card draw battlecry the most powerful non-legendary neutral ability, but it also gets spellpower, AND is a 4/4 body for 5 MANA. this isn't a matter of opinion, this is statistics dude.
Calm down, I didn't insult anyone, I just pointed out that Azure Drake isn't as good as people make him out to be.
First of all, card draw isn't the most powerful non-legendary neutral ability. That would be charge. Think about it, would you rather have Azure Drake draw a card or have charge? Also, deal X damage is probably also more powerful than card draw. Stormpike Commando has to sacrifice 2 health, the card draw and the spellpower compared to Azure Drake just to deal a measly two damage.
Spellpower, while pretty good, also isn't strictly necessary for most decks (read: not shaman or miracle rogue). Its just an added bonus. As you see, many druid decks don't play Bloodmage Thalnos, even though he's very efficient at providing spellpower.
Now look at all the other neutral 5-drops. Most of them are either conditional, like Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Faceless Manipulator, Frostwolf Warlord, Captain Greenskin or have terrible stats, like Stormpike Commando and Booty Bay Bodyguard. Very few of them are actually playable on an empty board and Azure Drake is indeed the best of the bunch. But that's just because there are no viable alternatives, like a 5-mana 5/6 or 6/6.
Yes, he's obviously pretty good in some decks that synergize well with spellpower or card draw, with miracle rogue being a prime example). But he's certainly not "the best card in the game".
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master_of_the_universe posted a message on Best and Worst Card in the game (so far)Posted in: Card DiscussionBest basic/common minion: Druid of the Claw. Bear Form alone is better than Fen Creeper, and then there's Cat Form, which is arguably even better! (Honorable mention: Loot Hoarder)
Best basic/common spell/weapon: Fireball. Just straight up 6 damage for 4 mana. It's hard to get much better than that. (Honorable mention: Truesilver Champion)
Best rare minion: Azure Drake. There's a reason most decks run two of this dragon — the combination of spell damage and card draw is just that good. (Honorable mention: Gadgetzan Auctioneer)
Best rare spell/weapon: Lightning Storm. Possibly the best sweeper in the game; a guaranteed 2 damage to everything for just 3 mana! (Honorable mention: Siphon Soul)
Best epic minion: Big Game Hunter. Takes down giants. Enough said. (Honorable mentions: Molten Giant, Mountain Giant. Sorry guys; you would win, but you die to BGH.)
Best epic spell/weapon: Preparation. This is only one of several reasons why Miracle Rogue is so good, but it's a damn good reason. (Honorable mentions:
Adrenaline RushShield Slam, Pyroblast)Best legendary: Bloodmage Thalnos. The epitome of "boring but practical", this guy provides both the card draw of Loot Hoarder and the spell damage of Kobold Geomancer. One way to measure a player's experience (not in Hearthstone per se, but in TCGs in general) is their reaction towards Thalnos. (Honorable mention: Leeroy Jenkins)
Worst basic/common minion: Wisp. Much like Memnite in MtG, Wisp is great in the right deck; unfortunately, there isn't a right deck yet, and there may never be one. (Dishonorable mention: Magma Rager)
Worst basic/common spell/weapon: All Paladin secrets EXCEPT Noble Sacrifice... which then makes Noble Sacrifice a little worse as well, since you always see it coming. (Dishonorable mention: Silence)
Worst rare minion: Angry Chicken. Ahh, the butt of everyone's jokes. I have yet to see anyone successfully enrage this thing, and I doubt I ever will. There's a reason we use it for rank 25. (Dishonorable mention: Mana Wraith)
Worst rare spell/weapon: Mass Dispel. Cool effect... but why would you ever play it? It's just too narrow to be feasible. (Dishonorable mention: Mortal Strike — a worse Fireball at a higher rarity!)
Worst epic minion: Kidnapper. Disgustingly overcosted for what it does. Even with combo, this should be something like a 5 mana 5/4. As it is, its only use is in mill decks and troll decks. (Dishonorable mention: Pit Lord)
Worst epic spell/weapon: This is really too close to decide. Bane of Doom, Bestial Wrath, Far Sight, Gladiator's Longbow, Mindgames, Shadowform, Snake Trap, Spellbender, and Twisting Nether all don't see enough play for me to gather an opinion on any of them. Therefore, I think it's safest to say that all of them "win" this one.
Worst legendary: Millhouse Manastorm. You get a 4/4 for 2, but your opponent gets to throw all manner of spells at you next turn. Was it worth the 1600 dust? Was it really? (Dishonorable mentions: Tinkmaster Overspark and Nat Pagle. That nerf still stings.)
Welp, this took much longer than it should have.
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This is going to sound ridiculous, but I was using Darkspeaker in a Warlock deck for the following cards:
Dragon Egg for many 2-1 tokens, plus the opponent doesn't expect the sudden 3-6 with charge.
Imp Gang Boss for basically the same reasons above, but they already perceive Gang Boss as a threat so less of a surprise.
And, for maximum silliness, Grim Patron. Yes. In a Warlock deck. Activate with things like Demonfire, Mortal Coil, and Tentacle of N'Zoth.
Run 2 Sea Giant for all the tokens and extra Patrons.
I don't think it's competitive but it's really fun.
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I don't post often on this site, but I just have to say this deck is disgusting. I just killed a priest on turn four with coin and he had played at least three minions.
It's absolutely key that you ditch the Abusive Sergeants and replace with Heroic Strike. You need the extra hero attack power to blast through taunts which will put your minions in danger. Trading minions into taunts can lose you the game, that's what all these weapons are for.
I'm normally a control player, so if you normally play control too and you're not having luck with the deck, stop trading your minions by default and just go face. It's going to be painful as hell at first and your body will scream at you to stop, but if you use your head and make strategic trades instead of every trade you will unlock the spirit of the deck.
Trade to keep your key minions alive next turn. Trade if you think your opponent is going to take the board from you via AOE so you can cash in (turn 7 Flamestrike, turn 5 Holy Nova, turn 4 Swipe, etc). Your opponent will use their coin if they have one to wipe your board, so make sure you're paying attention.
Currently 6-0 from rank 14 => 10. The highest rank I ever got was 9 and that was during secret paladin's debut.
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Shoo baby lemme hit the slots CASINO STYLE
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The Gorehowl is brutal. If your opponent doesn't have an answer to it, you can generate serious board control with it.
I would know. I lost to that card multiple times Q.Q
Don't be like me. Tech an Acidic Swamp Ooze or Harrison Jones.
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That's much smarter, thanks for the tip!
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Fun deck, SirFunchalot!
I'm trying a variant out with one Echo of Medivh and two Molten Giants. This combo is really fun and easy to do if you use the secrets after your health is low to get the giants for free. Make sure to use the giants before you proc Majordomo because they will become dead cards after you turn into Rag. Summoning four giants and a Sylvanas in one turn is just so satisfying.