Hearthpwn

Not a glitch, actually intentional

7/24, 7am, time for a new Annoy-o-tron again

Quote from Kaioxys >>

You know what I don't understand? Why are there even classes in the first place? How does it benefit the game at all? It only severely limits the possible deck types.

I always like talking about nerfs.  But I dont honestly think that most of these are too close to accurate.

Prophet Velen: Doesn't really need a nerf, considering the main problem with him will be rotating out.  I don't think they want to hit most classic cards because they should be viewed as lines that blizzard should not cross.  If Velen is too powerful its probably the cards that enable him not Velen himself

Doomguard: I dont think your nerf would be what they do, but i do agree it needs a nerf of some sort.  Something to remain aggressive without enabling cubelock to have so many wincons all in one

Call to Arms: Again, a card that I dont personally find to be too broken.  Moreso a good indicator that control tools have become too weak over time, primarily in the form of healing being sparse outside of classes like priest and somewhat warlock

Corridor Creeper: I think this cards most likely nerf is just putting it to 8 mana, if anything.  Its moreso a card that synergizes way too well with early aggro cards that create multiple creatures, primarily Patches, and because he is rotating out, i dont think that it will be nerfed unless it continues to prove its power

Cobalt Scalebane: Im not too sure blizz likes its dragon synergies much, due to the fact that they didnt work too well.  I honestly think that we need better 5 drops, not that Scalebane is too good. I dont think this will see a nerf if swarm is being delt with next expac.

Bonemare: This is the card I honestly think is the true ruiner of fun.  I dont know how blizzard is going to change this thing, but i hope it gets its classic overnerf into unplayability.  The issue is that it is basically free face damage and 2 massive bodies for 7 mana which is way too good in an aggro deck that can slot it in as its only high drop (Not counting the creeper).

TL;DR Most of these cards are enabled by the fact that swarm is powerful and healing is nonexistant leading to them seeming far more powerful. Also fuck patches and fuck bonemare

Did you actually read to the end of the article? Iksar states that he believes that the community has intelligence, its simply that they're worried about "Death by one thousand cuts".  They don't want the little complicated things to get out of hand, so they're squashing it when the returns are low.  We don't need a keyword for this ability, because they don't intend to use it much, and it is clear as is.  

Quote from tikoponde >>

Quote from Blue_Banana_whotookthisname >>

Quote from tikoponde >>

I find it funny when people come here disagreeing, obviously they are not paladin main and only play murlocadin to climb the ladder.

I have 1300+ wins with paladin, and my second most played class is druid (700 wins).

I totally agree with what you said, paladin is a joke. The only moment it had a competitive deck was after un'goro's release, a control paladin.

That comment is so logically self-inconsistent I'm having difficulty typing a good reply to it.

People have high win rates with Murloc Paladin. It's a competitive deck. How do you draw the conclusion from that that its players are non-Paladin mains, and how does that imply the deck can't be considered competitive?

 

The problem is that you need everything explicit to understand the discussion. The guy who started the topic already said that murlocadin is an exception, still, you guys don't read the discussion and come here just to vomit "you are wrong, end of discussion".

This is not a critical reasoning discussion, so if you don't have anything to add, don't bother replying.

 

Raza priest isn't unbeatable, but it does push decks out of the meta.  But there are certainly decks that just crap all over Raza priest, but you actually have to adapt your play-style for them, if your collection cant afford those decks, that sucks, and if you lose to it once in a while with these decks, or you go on a bad streak, that sucks.  But no part of the deck is broken, everything is just powerful, but there are other decks like that, such as control paladin, which does decent against Raza, or many of the aggro decks.  In reference to rogue, its only a feelsbad sort of situation, a 30% chance of instantly winning DOES suck a lot, but when the deck is often weaker for it, its the fact that something like control mage or again, paladin, can just destroy the deck if you're teched for it.  No Nerfs Needed.

 Dopplegangster into Evolve isnt broken. Its a feels bad combo, it feels awful when it happens, you have a massive board to deal with, and it feels like shit.  There are dozens of things in HS that make people feel this way, on both personal and over-arching levels.  Good example is a druid playing t1 flappy bird.  How do you beat that? Well, you have a hand that can, or you lose.  Thats a t1 combo that only happens when they go second, have at least 1 innervate, and the bird.  Face that against a combo like Dopplegangster and Evolve, where they have 5-6 turns and a mulligan to draw into those cards, have to survive and stay ahead on board until that point, and must still have a hint of luck not to get some of those 6 mana 1/1's or 2/3's, and then you have a combo that can often be beaten by a blizzard or a doomsayer frost nova or equality consec or a twisting nether.  Yes, it is a death sentence against midrange and a poorly drawn aggro deck, but that doesnt mean its broken.  Its complex rock paper scissors.  Its a feel bad combo, not a broken one, and while they SHOULD avoid feel bad combos, it wont get nerfed or ban hammered, because its only 3 cards that evolve and 1 below average card that enables it, as long as you're even on board, and if you're not, then their combo is either worse or exponentially better, respectively.  TL:DR, its a feel bad combo that wont bet nerfed because at best its 2nd tier WITH the DK that relies on a small pool of enablers and payoffs

I think the only issue with such a system is that each card would have to be rated. I dont think any way would make that balanced, and usually niche decks in the early parts of the week would stop out any competition with rediculously high scores from strong decks simply using different cards (See a concept like a working Overload shaman or a strong Pirate Warrior suddenly coming to fruition, using usually awful cards)

That's the thing about rogue, rogues primary weakness is that you CAN zerg them down if you need to, without fear of big board clears, think about it, not all classes can be great at everything, warrior lacks good aggression, druid lacks good hard removal now without big game, and rogue is the class that has less efficient removals, and blade flurry was such a break in that continuity.   And hey, mulch is strictly worse than hex, but people play it because it is hard removal, and they lack in that, and likewise, rogues, if they're given good weapons or weapon buffs, will use this, if not for the fact that it is, if nothing else, a board clear that works.  And again, we cannot look at rogue/weapon combos the same as others, because they can have multi turn setup.  And if you're one of those people that thinks that comparing cross class is a good idea, reconsider.  

So, this will finally be the thing to get me active on Hearthpwn i guess...

This nerf, however you want to look at it, is an interesting one to say the least, increasing the mana by 2 may have been much to those accustomed to using the card, but i will brood over that in a few sentences.  Id much rather talk about the other nerf and what this opens up for the rogue class.  For one thing, it not hitting face, i think it may not be controversial, but still, this is a good nerf, forcing rogues to abandon the idea of a massive oil combo and sudden face damage from theoretically no board.  And this card now also allows for, as many have said, better weapons in the rogue arsenal.  Id like you to, for a moment, imagine a 2 mana 3/1 weapon for rogue, simple as that.  That, in short, would make this card pretty good, it would be a versatile card in it of itself, 3 damage for 2 mana, if you're willing to take the face damage, along with some powerful synergy.  But moreover, this card allows for more powerful weapons in rogue, opening design space and allowing for multiple board clears to see play in the game (Id like to bring up Dark Iron Skulker).  Id also just like to point out that no, raptor rogue isnt dead by any stretch with this nerf, even if oil rogue is.  

So, finally, the 2 mana increase, while i think in most peoples opinions this card is a "combo card", requiring multiple cards to use, and making the 4 mana slot quite pricey for this kind of effect in the current meta.  However, unlike many multi card combos, rogue multi card combos are a bit more fluid than many others.  Take the use of deadly poison with this card, dagger up, poison, and flurry would now cost seven as opposed to the previous 5.  However, this is, in my opinion, a bad way of looking at it.  Playing control rogue, if youve ever attempted it, can have you holding onto a deadly poisoned or oiled weapon for turns on end, and you dont need to play the oil on the same turn you flurry, making this, id say, roughly a 5.5 mana investment to deal 3 damage to all enemy minions.  So, the question becomes, in the basic concept, is that good? Yes. Just, objectively yes, i would pay 5.5 mana to do that, i already pay 5 and nuke my own creatures despite other board clears i could use, because it can be so broken.  So, is this card as nerfed to hell as people are saying it is? No, nowhere close.  Is it still a broken as hell card? No.  Could blizzard have done better? Maybe.   But i think that what this card allows for is far more important than what it has taken away.

Also, one last, TOTALLY crazy idea, with this nerf, could rogues be getting their REALLY old hero power back, that gave their weapon +1 atk?  God id love to see those days.