Hearthpwn

You can always disenchant it for 400 dust if you don't like it.

This thread is already a meme.  People said the same thing about WoW getting killed off to competition years ago; and by now all of its competition is already buried deep in the trash.  Once people find out how truly shit all the other digital card games are they're going to come back to Hearthstone and wonder why they even bothered to begin with.

Not even Artifact is going to come anywhere close to reaching the popularity and success of Hearthstone.  Though with the DotA 2 scene being the pinnacle of esports, I can see professional Artifact really taking off since Hearthstone tournaments are a complete joke.

Baku the Mooneater

Thanks for the list man, already hit legend with it!  Looks like a safe full craft to me.

You can use your imagination to create something unique and new!

Quote from jeepers1704 >>

"A better example would be that you're not into any particular team but still want sports paraphernalia.  You buy 30 jerseys for each of the 30 teams participating in the league. "

Yeah yeah yeah awesome analogy my homie, I can totally picture a sports fan with no specific loyalties who buys 30 jerseys, perfect illustration of a realistic scenario. Glad you're the one explaining how the world works to all us dummies.

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Blizzard’s cards do not function like sports teams. Your Examples with dropping the ball applies to the meta. If a card is no longer strong because the meta has shifted, then we can compare to the sports team dropping the ball.

However a nerf is the opposite. That is not the team dropping the ball but the team deciding they are no longer a team and closed the business. Afterwards they call back all the jersies without paying the fans back. Of course people will feel like they purchased something they no longer had in possession.

If a card becomes worse by meta = Bad luck. We could have been smarter and foreseen this.

If a card becomes nerfed by Blizzard = We are entitled to money, gold or dust because we paid for the card and it is now changed.

 

Also/Edit: If Blizzard do not offer a full refund they have then opened up the gate for them to NOT offer full refunds on future nerfs as well. And then where do we draw the line between Shudderwock-almost-insignificant nerfs and big-nerfs-that-are-really-important nerfs? In the future they can say that they do not always offer full refund on nerfed cards. Suck it Hearthstone-fans! Blizzard doesn’t want to keep you as customers.

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from Alexincoming >>

 

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from Alexincoming >>

You have an entire 30 cards to put into a deck, and you decide to build it entirely around 2 copies of a single card.  Sure synergy between cards exist in Hearthstone, but this is how you know that the card in question is absolutely busted.  Cards like Naga Sea Witch should not exist.  Decks like this should not exist.

Warsong Commander was a problem card through and through several nerfs until Blizzard finally killed the card off; though no matter how you look at it, the card was peak cancer.  The Caverns Below may soon receive the same treatment.  Naga Sea Witch definitely deserves a similar fate.

 Blizzard merely prints cards.  They don't decide the meta.  They don't know the players are going to be playing.  Simply put, nerfed cards are merely cards that have gone under their radar for far too long.  These cards are unhealthy for the game and are also the cards that limit design space - single cards that dictate what other 28 or 29 cards go into your deck, only for it to be your only win condition.

Don't blame Blizzard when a card turns out to be overpowered, and don't blame them when cards get nerfed either.  These things are all decided by the players, since we vote by what decks we choose to play; and to be more blunt about it, we vote by what we choose to netdeck since the player base tends to gravitate towards the most overpowered cards that the game has to offer.

I hate to be cynical, but nobody deserves a full dust refund for the entirety of their deck when it gets killed off due to a single card nerf.  Giving it to you straight, you were just playing into a cancerous meta and spending dust crafting a cancerous deck.  Blizzard doesn't care if you used to have a full golden patron warrior deck, or if you spent a couple of thousand dust crafting 2 copies of each of the soon to be useless giants.  A single copy of a card should not have that much power over the entirety of the rest of the deck.  This is what it means for a card to limit design space.  By all means, I think that every single card in the game should be playable in some measure; but giants sure as hell don't deserve to belong in a naga sea witch deck, and you sure as hell don't deserve a dust refund for them no matter how much of an indirect nerf they may receive. 

You are one of those people that wants to shoot the messenger. Don’t hate the player; hate the game. And yes Blizzard actually created the meta game because they created everything in this game. They are even responsible for people playing because they are the ones allowing us to play.

Read some books. Learn some stuff. You will be happier for it.

 I'm smart enough to know that I should be hating the card, not the deck.  Nerfing particular cards has an indirect nerf to decks, which is how its easy to understand Blizzard's rule whenever it comes to nerfs.  In the case that they ever nerf a problem card, know that it wasn't done in vain.  Too bad people like you haven't yet to realize this.

I follow and play many games, both casually and competitively, across several different genres.  I know when the developers have a direct influence on their game's meta and when they have a genuine go at letting the players figure it out for themselves.  League of Legends has had the same exact meta since it first came out nearly a decade ago, and Riot has catered to this by solidifying a core gameplay of 5 fixed roles every single game that is played.  The meta literally never changes because of this.  Dota 2 has a new meta seemingly every single month, and Valve is able to support changes to the meta by constantly throwing out bizarre changes that will shake up the game for better or for worse.

Players having an issue with a particular sect of the meta?  Blizzard will get the job done if a fix is truly called for.  Otherwise they don't kiss ass at the whim of every single complain.  Long outstanding issues are addressed in waves of 4 months, by injecting new cards into the game.  The only way Blizzard controls and dictates the meta is through the basic card set, and everything else is left to the players to experiment with.

Remember when KofT came out and all the issues that arose within the first week of its release?  Only an idiot would think that Blizzard thoroughly playtests their entire set to see if it is truly ready when the expansion hits live servers.  Only an idiot would think that Blizzard can actually predict the meta prior to an expansion's release. 

In hindsight, Spreading Plague should have been a cool new card with a new mechanic that finally gives druid a much needed anti-aggro tool right?  In reality however, this card alone completely ruined the meta like never before seen.   You had to be stupid not to play druid.  You had to be stupid not be running 2 copies of spreading plague.  You had to be stupid to play aggro.  That's how the meta came to be 90% druid and 0% aggro in the first couple of weeks of KofT.  This was the meta decided by the players, not Blizzard.  Do not tell me that this was an intentional move made by Blizzard, because it isn't considering that they had never jumped the gun on the nerfbat as quick as this.

You clearly have no comprehension of how a meta in any game of any genre is formed.  Slowly over time, players will come to terms with what the meta will look like, whats good and whats bad, and adjust accordingly.  Developers that don't dictate their game's meta will have no control over this, and will allow things in their game to flow naturally, experimentally, and scientifically through the will of the playerbase.  If Blizzard truly wanted to decide for the players what they should be playing, they would be buffing cards to directly lead players toward a specific direction instead of nerfing cards to make a level playing field.

Read some books. Learn some stuff. Get good at the game. You will be happier for it.

 

Appearently you didn’t learn anything.

I agree that Blizzard had to nerf some cards while according they screwed up. And thus Shudderwock was nerfed. Personally I am happy about the nerf and I have never played an OTK Shudderwock deck nor have I ever played the 3 lifedrain minion.

It is a nerf and Blizzard should offer full dust refund to the few people who wants to actually disenchant Shudderwock.

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from Alexincoming >>

 

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from MProdigy >>

 

Quote from LordKeyren >>

Wait do people actually believe they are entitled to a dust refund on cards that were NOT nerfed just because those cards are used in the same deck as the one that got nerfed?  

Is this a serious discussion right now?  

I believe people should get a refund on Shudderwock bc they changed the card.  I don't really see why Blizzard isn't offering it other than a shameless money grab. 

However giving you dust back for other cards you crafted for your Shudderwock deck is beyond ridiculous.  First of all...those cards didn't get nerfed.   It's YOUR fault for crafting cards for an obviously broken meme deck that was annoying as f--k, was breaking the game, and you should have definitely known was going to be nerfed in the future.  Second, those cards might actually be useful in other decks!  Crazy right?  Third, there are 2 other expansions coming out this year and those cards me become useful in the future if they are not right now. 

I honestly cannot believe we're having this discussion.  Full dust back for cards that are altered by Blizzard.   Standard dust back for cards that are not.  

 

I’m not sure Shudderwock warrants a refund.  People were aware of its brokenness when some streamer found a loophole garbage combo and should have known it would be nerfed.  I opened him and could care less if I get a refund.  I use it in a Dragon version (the one on this site actually) and it’s awesonely fun and fairly strong.  No exploit of the battlecry crap. 

I agree that people are too fast to dust cards when they go from bullshit OP to proper power level.  For example, Patches is not total garbage now.  I’ve seen him used in wild with great success.  It’s just not stupid OP.  

People who only play OP decks for wins remind me of the good old days of Doom 1/2.  Sure you could use IDDQD and IDKFA and cheat your way to victory, but you didn’t really beat the game. It’s fun as hell, for a while, but if you want to truly improve your skill you played it without cheating.

 

Playing cards as Blizzard intended them to work is not cheating.

You are trying to create rules that aren’t there. They are your subjective rules. Not rules of Hearthstone.

People want the option to choose full dust refund. I do not think that is greedy. If people do not get a choice then Blizzard can slowly grind the grey area a little more and a little more until they do not offer full refund if a 5/5 Becomes a 4/5 because it is only one attack. Where do we cut the line?

Shudderwock 20 cap is a nerf. But a small nerf. But sometimes it will actually be a nerf and this is all that matters. Full refund is the only option.

 I'm sure that it was intentional for people to be able to play 6 8/8 giants on turn 4 after coining out naga sea witch in wild.  Nerfs happen for a reason dude.  Not to mention that the new naga sea witch was the result of an unintended programming side effect which altered the mechanic behind the card.

Also, there was once a time where I crafted a 30 legendary deck with both Raza and Patches in it, and boy let me tell you - they were the building blocks, the cornerstone of my deck, the entire integrity of my deck relied on both of them.  However, when both of these cards got nerfed, my deck became literally unplayable.  Unfair right?  I should have gotten a full dust refund on not just 2 of my cards, but my entire deck.

I agree. That is why I started this thread some months ago:

https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/211583-should-players-get-a-full-refund-on-affected-cards

Maybe you spend money on this game only to see Blizzard take away some of the things you spend money on without giving you anything back. Imagine if this happened in a sports store where you buy three T-shits and a month later the store steals one of them back without paying you for it.

Quote from jeepers1704 >>

----- "Have you completely lost your mind?  Literally nobody possesses this mentality.  People don't like losing their money?  People lose literally fucking nothing whenever a card gets nerfed lmao."

You're being dense. Dust that you spend in the game is money you spent on packs or time you spent grinding. These are both finite and valuable resources to people. You really can't understand why I place value on my time and money? Maybe Spiritsinget Umbra will be part of some sweet fun viable deck other than Cubelock but it sucks to be stranded with a dead legendary, that's what I'm saying. Each legendary is worth about $15-20 if you're buying packs.

------ "I thought that people are supposed to welcome nerfs because the meta gets healthier.  You on the other hand completely dread nerfs, as if your entire drive to play the game rests in the balance of a particular card in a particular deck, as if there's nothing else constructive that you can do with your brain and creativity."

Sometimes nerfs do positively impact the meta, sometimes they're because enough redditors bitch about a card. I don't dread nerfs, but in general I'd rather adapt than cry for a nerf. I devote my hearthstone playing time to winning games of hearthstone, it's cool if you enjoy deckbuilding but that's absolutely not a requirement to play or enjoy the game. 

 

----- "You can be a little more constructive in your deck building.  Voidlord doesn't have to be played with cube, skull, lackey, dark pact, etc... you're just too dim and ignorant to see an entirely different side, use, and purpose to a card.  This is why you don't deserve a dust refund."

Oh man I can't see any other use of spending 9 mana for 6/18 worth of taunt, only a genius could find an application for such an obscure tool. Who the hell told people they need to build their own decks to play hearthstone? I'd rather just play games of hearthstone as silly as that sounds. And enough with insulting my intelligence or creativity you fucking edgelord, you must be pretty damn creative to maintain such a narrow perspective on things.

Quote from jeepers1704 >>

 

Quote from Alexincoming >>

 

People don't deserve to suffer in the tiniest bit for making poor crafting decisions, or poor crafting decisions in hindsight as a result of an unforeseeable nerf.  People do however deserve to get shunned or ignored for thinking for even a second that they're entitled to a full dust refund for their entire deck when a single card gets nerfed.  I can't think of a more asinine case of entitlement coming from Hearthstone's playerbase. 

"Fuck you Blizz, I can't play this deck anymore because I can't make it work any longer, so you better fucking give me enough dust so that I can make and play another deck."  That's basically all I'm hearing from you.

If that's all you're hearing then you're being willfully ignorant, every time I've mentioned refunds I've been basically saying PEOPLE DON'T LIKE LOSING THEIR MONEY, not lofty notions about who deserves what. Pretty sure that's a bedrock principal of our economic system. Blizzard needs to satisfy the player base on both a meta diversity/power level and a consumer confidence is all I'm trying to say. Berating people for their deck choices or dips like Prodigy saying some wins are unearned is silly.

"Aww shucks, sorry you can't beat my Voidlords, guess I should've foreseen that this deck would be considered too good so I guess I'll be more careful about spending my dust on the best deck in the format in the future."

5 months from now: Rush Warrior is braindead cancer, Darius Crowley needs a nerf now, he's just too good, you should've known this when you crafted those Town Criers!!!!

"Aww shucks, sorry..."

Quote from DogoSky >>

I don't understand the hate towards people who use op decks. You should toward your anger to the people who created that cards in the first place. Don't get me wrong I get frustrated with playing against same decks over and over but its kind of Hearthstones thing every meta nothing changes. The player base isn't guilty of playing broken decks they are guilty of not speaking with their wallet or time including me.

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from Alexincoming >>

You have an entire 30 cards to put into a deck, and you decide to build it entirely around 2 copies of a single card.  Sure synergy between cards exist in Hearthstone, but this is how you know that the card in question is absolutely busted.  Cards like Naga Sea Witch should not exist.  Decks like this should not exist.

Warsong Commander was a problem card through and through several nerfs until Blizzard finally killed the card off; though no matter how you look at it, the card was peak cancer.  The Caverns Below may soon receive the same treatment.  Naga Sea Witch definitely deserves a similar fate.

 Blizzard merely prints cards.  They don't decide the meta.  They don't know the players are going to be playing.  Simply put, nerfed cards are merely cards that have gone under their radar for far too long.  These cards are unhealthy for the game and are also the cards that limit design space - single cards that dictate what other 28 or 29 cards go into your deck, only for it to be your only win condition.

Don't blame Blizzard when a card turns out to be overpowered, and don't blame them when cards get nerfed either.  These things are all decided by the players, since we vote by what decks we choose to play; and to be more blunt about it, we vote by what we choose to netdeck since the player base tends to gravitate towards the most overpowered cards that the game has to offer.

I hate to be cynical, but nobody deserves a full dust refund for the entirety of their deck when it gets killed off due to a single card nerf.  Giving it to you straight, you were just playing into a cancerous meta and spending dust crafting a cancerous deck.  Blizzard doesn't care if you used to have a full golden patron warrior deck, or if you spent a couple of thousand dust crafting 2 copies of each of the soon to be useless giants.  A single copy of a card should not have that much power over the entirety of the rest of the deck.  This is what it means for a card to limit design space.  By all means, I think that every single card in the game should be playable in some measure; but giants sure as hell don't deserve to belong in a naga sea witch deck, and you sure as hell don't deserve a dust refund for them no matter how much of an indirect nerf they may receive. 

You are one of those people that wants to shoot the messenger. Don’t hate the player; hate the game. And yes Blizzard actually created the meta game because they created everything in this game. They are even responsible for people playing because they are the ones allowing us to play.

Read some books. Learn some stuff. You will be happier for it.

Quote from Velrun >>

 

Quote from MProdigy >>

 

Quote from LordKeyren >>

Wait do people actually believe they are entitled to a dust refund on cards that were NOT nerfed just because those cards are used in the same deck as the one that got nerfed?  

Is this a serious discussion right now?  

I believe people should get a refund on Shudderwock bc they changed the card.  I don't really see why Blizzard isn't offering it other than a shameless money grab. 

However giving you dust back for other cards you crafted for your Shudderwock deck is beyond ridiculous.  First of all...those cards didn't get nerfed.   It's YOUR fault for crafting cards for an obviously broken meme deck that was annoying as f--k, was breaking the game, and you should have definitely known was going to be nerfed in the future.  Second, those cards might actually be useful in other decks!  Crazy right?  Third, there are 2 other expansions coming out this year and those cards me become useful in the future if they are not right now. 

I honestly cannot believe we're having this discussion.  Full dust back for cards that are altered by Blizzard.   Standard dust back for cards that are not.  

 

I’m not sure Shudderwock warrants a refund.  People were aware of its brokenness when some streamer found a loophole garbage combo and should have known it would be nerfed.  I opened him and could care less if I get a refund.  I use it in a Dragon version (the one on this site actually) and it’s awesonely fun and fairly strong.  No exploit of the battlecry crap. 

I agree that people are too fast to dust cards when they go from bullshit OP to proper power level.  For example, Patches is not total garbage now.  I’ve seen him used in wild with great success.  It’s just not stupid OP.  

People who only play OP decks for wins remind me of the good old days of Doom 1/2.  Sure you could use IDDQD and IDKFA and cheat your way to victory, but you didn’t really beat the game. It’s fun as hell, for a while, but if you want to truly improve your skill you played it without cheating.

 

Playing cards as Blizzard intended them to work is not cheating.

You are trying to create rules that aren’t there. They are your subjective rules. Not rules of Hearthstone.

People want the option to choose full dust refund. I do not think that is greedy. If people do not get a choice then Blizzard can slowly grind the grey area a little more and a little more until they do not offer full refund if a 5/5 Becomes a 4/5 because it is only one attack. Where do we cut the line?

Shudderwock 20 cap is a nerf. But a small nerf. But sometimes it will actually be a nerf and this is all that matters. Full refund is the only option.

You have an entire 30 cards to put into a deck, and you decide to build it entirely around 2 copies of a single card.  Sure synergy between cards exist in Hearthstone, but this is how you know that the card in question is absolutely busted.  Cards like Naga Sea Witch should not exist.  Decks like this should not exist.

Warsong Commander was a problem card through and through several nerfs until Blizzard finally killed the card off; though no matter how you look at it, the card was peak cancer.  The Caverns Below may soon receive the same treatment.  Naga Sea Witch definitely deserves a similar fate.

 Blizzard merely prints cards.  They don't decide the meta.  They don't know the players are going to be playing.  Simply put, nerfed cards are merely cards that have gone under their radar for far too long.  These cards are unhealthy for the game and are also the cards that limit design space - single cards that dictate what other 28 or 29 cards go into your deck, only for it to be your only win condition.

Don't blame Blizzard when a card turns out to be overpowered, and don't blame them when cards get nerfed either.  These things are all decided by the players, since we vote by what decks we choose to play; and to be more blunt about it, we vote by what we choose to netdeck since the player base tends to gravitate towards the most overpowered cards that the game has to offer.

I hate to be cynical, but nobody deserves a full dust refund for the entirety of their deck when it gets killed off due to a single card nerf.  Giving it to you straight, you were just playing into a cancerous meta and spending dust crafting a cancerous deck.  Blizzard doesn't care if you used to have a full golden patron warrior deck, or if you spent a couple of thousand dust crafting 2 copies of each of the soon to be useless giants.  A single copy of a card should not have that much power over the entirety of the rest of the deck.  This is what it means for a card to limit design space.  By all means, I think that every single card in the game should be playable in some measure; but giants sure as hell don't deserve to belong in a naga sea witch deck, and you sure as hell don't deserve a dust refund for them no matter how much of an indirect nerf they may receive.