Hearthpwn

Quote from GerritDeMan >>

I was just reminded by a post on r/Freefolk that the only purpose of the horse that Arya rode away on at the end of episode 5 was to make it look cool. Once again they show us that they don't care at all about logic as long as it makes a scene look good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqpfk2/earns_my_vote_for_the_most_useless_character_award/

Arya sort of forgot she rode out of KL.

Arya sort of forgot about killing a queen and her faceless powers.

Bran sort of forgot about being the Three Eyed Raven.

Bran sort of forgot about the previous scene ("I don't want it") when he said, "Why do you think I came all this way?"

John sort of forgot to mention the Nights Watch isn't a thing anymore.  

D&D sort of forgot about how time and travel works.  

Seriously feel like they checked out a long time ago and just played mad libs with the script for season 8. 

Quote from linkblade91 >>

And now I wait for His Dark Materials, a book series I've actually read. I can be one of those "but the books!" people for once lel

 I'll comment on the finale in a sec, but I had to second this first. Cannot wait for this! The movie was SO bad: Sanitized all the subtext that made the books interesting and compelling; Cutoff the extremely shocking climax. Would be like ending season 1 GoT without Ned dying.

Based on the trailer, this looks amazing and I can't wait. Plus, everything Lin-Manuel Miranda touches right now is gold. Let's hope they get Kingkiller done before his star fades.

Well, have been reading this thread for weeks. Here's my 2 cents, after watching the finale:

I enjoyed the series as a whole. It has been an epic journey no doubt. No comments on previous seasons, we all know about them. 

This last season felt rushed, like, a lot. Still, in my opinion it was resolved quite well. Bran being the king is fine, Dany going mad is a bit pulled out of their rear but ok.

It only seems unfair to me that Jon had the balls to do what had to be done, and yet he is punished for it, only because Gray Worm, a nobody, insists on it. To hell with Gray Worm, man. 

Quote from Kla_guy >>

TL;DR:

D&D write way worst than GRRM.

 You think? Benioff had a couple successes a screenwriter prior to this. Weiss was a nobody.

GRRM's first story published almost 50 years ago. He won his first Hugo award in 1975. Dude had written a couple dozen books and stories, several award-winning, prior to publishing GoT in '96.

Experience makes a difference. Sure, sometimes you roll the dice on fresh talent and win, but on a show of this magnitude, HBO should have found someone better, a known quantity. Maybe they didn't think it would get this big, and when it did, they attributed too much to D&D over the source material.

If I were Disney, today would pull the plug on D&D for the next Star Wars movies. Deserved or not, why would you want to the most hated writers in Hollywood to take the reigns on one of your key franchises?

After episodes 3-5, I had so little hopes for this last episode.  I was more just happy it was over.  Other than Bran becoming King and that whole meeting with the lords which made no sense, it actually *could* have been a decent last episode, if only the previous three episodes were two seasons worth of content, not some rushed hack of a just making things up to get to the final episode.  If you saw the end of season 7, and then saw the final episode, you would be excited to see seasons 8 and 9 and see the downfall of Dany.  Except it was 3 episodes....

The weird thing is that HBO didn't cap the final season episode count on the producers... they could have had 10 or so episodes.  I wonder what they were thinking when they went for only 6 episodes.

Also, to those who compare D&D to GRRM and praise GRRM, let's not let him off the hook.  Yes, the TV series is a mess, but there is a reason GRRM hasn't finished the books.  The books are out of control with too many plot lines and characters, that I don't think he will, or could, ever finish it.  Don't forget Lady Stoneheart, the other, other Targaryan that's alive, all the crap with Dorne, all the crap with the Iron Islands, the Hound-who's-dead-but-being-impersonated, and a bunch of other plotlines I have forgotten since it's been years since I read the books.  The TV series thankfully glossed over or ignored those, but the books have to address them because GRRM introduced them.  Basically, either the series will be another 8 books, or he's going to have to do what the TV show did and quickly kill-off or resolve these plotlines for the sake of the getting it finished, in which case it will be bad.

Quote from Junus10000>>

It only seems unfair to me that Jon had the balls to do what had to be done, and yet he is punished for it, only because Gray Worm, a nobody, insists on it. To hell with Gray Worm, man. 

I'm a Ramsay Bolton fan but I still feel sorry for Jon Snow's fate, even a gross death would have been thousands of times better for him. :( F...K stupid Grey Worm and the f...king Unsullied!!! >:-( 

My final take on Got:

Some stories are about a character's journey with the destination being an afterthought. Some stories are all about the destination, with the journey being more a means to an end. This was something else... it was the story of an entire world: it's ebbs and flows and the interactions between the people and places and powers within it. It has always been much bigger than once place or one character. Finding a suitable end to all that is impossible (destruction of the entire world notwithstanding). The best the series could do was leave us in a place where we felt somewhat at peace that things would be ok for a while, that most of the turmoil we've witnesses had drawn to a close, so that we would accept not being able to see anymore of this world's story. I think the show accomplished at least that goal. I was mostly satisfied with state of things at the end.

That being said, I agree with many that these last few seasons, and this one especially, sacrificed too much to get us to that ending. The crux of this series has always been the world, and its places and characters and magic, and the interactions between them all. Glossing over large chunks of that to get us to a satisfying ending ignores what this series has always been about. This season played like a Cliffs Notes version of the story that actually took place to get us there. Personally, it was disappointing, but I really don't get the hate---all the people are saying they wish they'd never watched it, or wasted their lives, etc. The ride was great up until this point, in its a shame the climax was given such poor treatment, but I still enjoyed the series immensely as whole.

I in no way want to shit on people who enjoyed the show.  I have never begrudged someone their moments of escapism, and I will say that there were some shots that, as long as I consider them as illustrations to the better story of the books, will live on as great moment of television.

Having said that, it's hard to care about the glory of the first four seasons when the end undermines so much of that groundwork.

It's like the whole R + L = J plot line.  Obviously, this was guessed for years before they gave it to us at the end of season . . . six, I think.  It's a wonderful plot moment, not because that particular fact that Jon's father was Rhaegar is such a huge deal in and of itself, but because of all the crazy ramifications for the rest of the story.  Rhaegar's marriage to Lianna caused Daenerys to be where she was.  It caused the precursor conflict of the whole story.  It caused Jaime to be dishonored and bitter, even though he acted in an honorable fashion.  It's a spectacular moment of reveal.

Now, in the books, this is presumably going to happen because Rhaegar believed in the prophecy of the Prince who was Promised.  He's not some dick who wanted to peace out on his wife; he believed that his actions were necessary for the survival of the kingdom.  But, looking at the TV series, the Rhaegar/Lianna line has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE CURRENT EVENTS.

Think about it.  Jon was King in the North before his lineage was revealed.  What did the fact that he was the rightful heir effect?  He could have killed Dany without it.  He didn't kill the Night King or even fight the Night King, so clearly the whole prophecy thing was irrelevant to the story.  What did it serve?

In fact, now that we know the ending, I guess Rhaegar was a dick who just tore a kingdom apart for no reason.

Furthermore, just from a medieval history point of view, the Bran the Broken thing was patently absurd.  The kid can't have children.  He can't lead armies.  The whole bullshit about "who tells the best stories" was an attempt at high art writing that fell woefully short, and did a huge disservice to Tyrion's character.  And when Bran dies, or has to grow into a tree, or whatever the fuck, we get a whole new round of killing  and intrigue to figure out who serves as the next king.

I understand that not every plot thread can pay off as some hugely relevant issue.  We lost Quaithe and never figured out anything about her, for example, and while I wished that were not so, I can understand why she sort of fell by the wayside.  Another HUGE one for me was the heavily-implied supernatural nature of Roose Bolton.  It's more prominent in the books, but they had an opportunity to make the Boltons some kind of ally to the Others, or perhaps their own entity, but no.  Nothing there.  Fine, if that's what they want to do, at least we got the Battle of the Bastards.

It is patently fucking ridiculous, however, that they did not pay off three of the most central plot lines through the entire series:

1.  Jon is the progeny of Rhaegar and Lianna.

2.  Littlefinger started the events of Ned Stark's demise and paved the way for a takeover by Daenerys.

3.  Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven

Jon's lineage doesn't matter, because he's not Azor Ahai.  None of that mattered in the least to the resolution of the story.

Littlefinger dies unceremoniously after fucking around doing stupid stuff he was way too smart to do.  I guess that plot line ended with, "well, that guy did a lot of horrible shit for power, but he got his".  Cool . . . I guess.

Bran was hands down the biggest waste of screen time in the show.  Aside from verifying that Littlefinger was, in fact, bad, Bran's powers amount to nothing.  Furthermore, we got no context as to why the Night King cares about him in particular.  We get no exploration of any number of mysteries about the history of Westeros through his flashbacks.  And we don't get the obvious fact pointed out that any number of people would be ready to put a dagger thru Bran's heart for allowing the events of episode 5 to occur without trying to intervene.  The idea that anyone would accept him as king knowing that he exhibits no care at all for the responsibility his powers incur is beyond the pale of suspension of disbelief.

Even if you assume that the seasons had to be truncated (which they didn't), the amount of screen time devoted to Brann is tragic.  We couldn't pay any attention to Dorne's intended story line, but we got the "Hold the Door!" seen, so it's all good.  We couldn't find out anything about the long-foreshadowed relevant lineage of Bronn, but we got Arya side boob, so it's cool.

Someone above basically said that we should enjoy the parts of the journey that were quality.  The problem is that memories can be recontextualized as events unfold.  I remember spending hours talking with my wife about what might happen next season.  Those were good times . . . then.  Now it just seems an insane waste of time.

The real tragedy is that there are new, ambitious fantasy projects in the works for TV and cinema.  And as much as I would like to be excited, I just can't bring myself to invest that sort of attention.  If GoT can't bring it home after such an amazing build-up, what else can?

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

 

Bran was hands down the biggest waste of screen time in the show.  Aside from verifying that Littlefinger was, in fact, bad, Bran's powers amount to nothing.  Furthermore, we got no context as to why the Night King cares about him in particular.  We get no exploration of any number of mysteries about the history of Westeros through his flashbacks.  And we don't get the obvious fact pointed out that any number of people would be ready to put a dagger thru Bran's heart for allowing the events of episode 5 to occur without trying to intervene.  The idea that anyone would accept him as king knowing that he exhibits no care at all for the responsibility his powers incur is beyond the pale of suspension of disbelief.

 

Dude, Bran was the evil puppetmaster this whole time. He used his little sis like a tool to engineer the defeat of the  Night King---the one being that could stop him. Then he played Dany into obliterating King's Landing and played john into killing Dany, removing all threats to his taking the the throne. He pacified his other sis by lettering her pretend at being "queen of the north." Of course he was ready to take the throne at the end. He planned it all along.  Evil Bran 4 lyfe.

R + L = J Doesn't matter

Bran is the TER Doesn't matter

Night King/white walkers are the real threat Doesn't matter

Bran can do cool warg shit Doesn't matter

Dany set out to break the wheel Doesn't matter, history repeats itself

The wall is destroyed, Castle Black serves no purpose, Nights Watch is no longer necessary Doesn't matter

Arya is No One Doesn't matter

Qaith Doesn't matter

Bron wanted the Lannister brothers dead Doesn't matter

Greyworm commands the Unsullied in Dany's name, wants revenge on Jon Doesn't matter, fuck it lets go to Naath

Melisandre/Lord of Light/Shadow baby magic Doesn't matter

I wish the Night King won.  

edit: Why was Tormund and the wildlings hanging out at Castle Black?  Were they ALL just waiting for Jon?  

Quote from GetchX >>

 

Also, to those who compare D&D to GRRM and praise GRRM, let's not let him off the hook.  Yes, the TV series is a mess, but there is a reason GRRM hasn't finished the books.  The books are out of control with too many plot lines and characters, that I don't think he will, or could, ever finish it.  

 I think there is a lot of truth in that and I very much feel the same way. Nevertheless I am currently re-reading „A Dance With Dragons“ ans I have to say that even thougb the Plot becomes a little messy, the overall quality is still lightyears ahead of what Season 8 has delivered. I don‘t recall any meaningful, well written dialouge within the entire season, which is crazy if you think about how the show used to be driven mainly by interactions between characters.

Okay, first things first. That jab at democracy where everyone laughs at Sam's suggestion was pretty funny.

Quote from Morkimus >>

Okay, first things first. That jab at democracy where everyone laughs at Sam's suggestion was pretty funny.

 Here's a better version of that scene. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqvljv/i_fixed_the_worst_scene_in_episode_6/

****

It's the day after and it's starting to hit me a little harder.  I really liked Dany and her story is quite tragic.  Emilia Clarke, thank you for such a beautiful performance and portrayal of my queen. 

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Junus10000>>

It only seems unfair to me that Jon had the balls to do what had to be done, and yet he is punished for it, only because Gray Worm, a nobody, insists on it. To hell with Gray Worm, man. 

I'm a Ramsay Bolton fan but I still feel sorry for Jon Snow's fate, even a gross death would have been thousands of times better for him. :( F...K stupid Grey Worm and the f...king Unsullied!!! >:-( 

 But he got a great ending (aside from the tragedy of what he had to do). He got to slip away and live a simple life with no more duty, which he probably preferred.

So... last episode. The end of a cultural phenomenon. I felt... hollow. But I liked a few things, I guess:

 And there's a lot that makes no sense whatsoever:

Quote from Kaladin >>

after and it's starting to hit me a little harder.  I really liked Dany and her story is quite tragic.  Emilia Clarke, thank you for such a beautiful performance and portrayal of my queen. 

 I think part of the reason people were so pissed at Dany's turn, is that IRL Emilia Clarke just seems like an awesome person that you'd want to hang with 

• Jon goes back to the Wall even though it serves no purpose anymore. I laughed at that scene for quite a while, but what even is the point of it now? Wildlings aren't enemies anymore, and the Long Night is done with. The Wall is a penal colony with essentially no function besides being a dumpster for criminals, then? Nice of Tormund to wait for Jon to show up before moving out, though. Maybe he learned with Bran to see the future.

Tyrion explained it perfectly: The new night's watch is just a place to send off people they can't execute but should be removed from society. Who knows what happens up there in the future, having an outpost sounds reasonable to me. I think of it how Soviet sent people to Siberia. Did he even start a new night's watch or just join the wildlings, something he quite enjoyed earlier.

The unsullied and Dothraki were a very real millitary threat and killing Dany was controversial among others as well. You can't start a new and more just system of choosing a ruler by letting the slayer of the last one go free.

As for the North being independant, it just had to end like that, foreshadwing what will happen to Scotland after Brexit;-) It would have taken too much explaining to justify the reasons of the others to remain under a unified nation, but there are very good reasons be united too! Sansa just knew her people could not be a part of it.

Quote from YJHS2000 >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

after and it's starting to hit me a little harder.  I really liked Dany and her story is quite tragic.  Emilia Clarke, thank you for such a beautiful performance and portrayal of my queen. 

 I think part of the reason people were so pissed at Dany's turn, is that IRL Emilia Clarke just seems like an awesome person that you'd want to hang with 

 This was from an interview with Emilia, on her portraying Dany in the final scene. 

RIP Daenerys.  

At least there was time for Jaime achievements. However Brienne kinda forgot to mention that by killing Aerys Jaime saved Kingslanding and its half million ppl

Jaime killed Aerys and Euron and tried to kill Daenerys and Brann. A real KingKiller lol