I just wanted to start this thread to gain some opinoins, but also to have each other share some good strategies and or stories of cards that most people don't give much value to in arena, but turn out to be quite good. I often play druid and warrior in arena and I notice that claw is something a lot of people don't have a high opinion of, but it can be extremely helpful in maintaining/ gaining the board in the early game. The same goes for cleave, which I find not many people like as it faded from the meta a long time ago.
Since arena is usually much slower, you don't lose that many cards. There are also less chance for him to be hard removed. I have had great success with him, and I recommend to pick him up :)
While Southsea Deckhand might be good in one of the Weapons classes for aggro, I find Worgen Infiltrator is very undervalued, as it can sit there and force them to play around it on turn 1.
Hmmm... Pit Lord seems to be very undervalued since many people think Arena functions the same as Constructed. Pit Lord is bad in constructed because the meta is far too fast and Warlocks already lose too much health through life tap. However, pit lord is probably the best 4 drop (besides yeti) in arena since you can usually survive the 5 damage and a 5/6 for 4 is super value.
Basically, any Stealth minions (except Shade of Naxxramas) for aggro decks are undervalued. For most intents and purposes, Stealth = Charge with better stats for the mana cost in The Arena.
The Stealth guys tend to deliver more "guaranteed" face damage. The exceptions are the opponent dropping a taunt or AoE effect, but both of these have become more rare in The Arena post-GvG.
While Southsea Deckhand might be good in one of the Weapons classes for aggro, I find Worgen Infiltrator is very undervalued, as it can sit there and force them to play around it on turn 1.
I think worgen is great but if anything, I'd argue its value has actually gone down a bit post GvG due to the preponderance of 2-3's.
I think worgen is great but if anything, I'd argue its value has actually gone down a bit post GvG due to the preponderance of 2-3's.
I still find that people value the 3/2's before 2/3's, only resorting to the 2/3 options if they have no choice or are afraid of not seeing anymore 2 drops late in the draft. You are correct though, there is more 2/3's that do make Worgen a little less threatening on turn 1. There is also Annoy-o-tron and Shielded minibot that puts a damper on it.
If a arena goes properly, I wouldn't want to draft one anyways, but it is not a dead card for sure.
I think people are still undervaluing the importance of 3 drops, especially at the expense of 4-5 drops.
I think Spider Tank over any 4-5 drop is correct, with the arguable exceptions of Water Elemental and Ambusher. Of course, people are valuing the premium 3 drops pretty high already, but how high is the question.
Raging Worgen is often a terrible beating in today's Arena, particularly when coined.
Muster for Battle is a card that needs a hard counter, or it can end up winning the game. It is hard to stop multiple minions from hitting your face just by playing a solid midgame drop without Taunt. Three soldiers will do 6 damage while absorbing 12 if a Yeti is what you play against it and you are the one behind. It can also cause the Paladin Hero Power to snowball out of control. And generally, the Paladin aggro decks possible now are extremely unappreciated. Tons of previously difficult to use cards are now highly pickable due to the new GvG early game - Blessing of Might, Redemption, Avenge, Hand of Protection, Equality, and so on.
While Southsea Deckhand might be good in one of the Weapons classes for aggro, I find Worgen Infiltrator is very undervalued, as it can sit there and force them to play around it on turn 1.
Basically, any Stealth minions (except Shade of Naxxramas) for aggro decks are undervalued. For most intents and purposes, Stealth = Charge with better stats for the mana cost in The Arena.
The Stealth guys tend to deliver more "guaranteed" face damage. The exceptions are the opponent dropping a taunt or AoE effect, but both of these have become more rare in The Arena post-GvG.
This is some pretty valuable insight that I had never thought of before, thank you!
Basically, any Stealth minions (except Shade of Naxxramas) for aggro decks are undervalued. For most intents and purposes, Stealth = Charge with better stats for the mana cost in The Arena.
The Stealth guys tend to deliver more "guaranteed" face damage. The exceptions are the opponent dropping a taunt or AoE effect, but both of these have become more rare in The Arena post-GvG.
Charge has the element of surprise, though. You can instantly make an favourable trade without the enemy having one turn to play around it. Not to mention that if it is down to the wire (you are going to die on your opponent's next turn), a Charge minion can win you a game you would otherwise have lost.
Hmmm... Pit Lord seems to be very undervalued since many people think Arena functions the same as Constructed. Pit Lord is bad in constructed because the meta is far too fast and Warlocks already lose too much health through life tap. However, pit lord is probably the best 4 drop (besides yeti) in arena since you can usually survive the 5 damage and a 5/6 for 4 is super value.
Fireball kills a pit lord just as easily as a yeti. (Though admittedly it's better vs flame cannon + ping)
Save yourself 5hp, and play a piloted shredder; in 90% of games it'll give just as much board control
Hmmm... Pit Lord seems to be very undervalued since many people think Arena functions the same as Constructed. Pit Lord is bad in constructed because the meta is far too fast and Warlocks already lose too much health through life tap. However, pit lord is probably the best 4 drop (besides yeti) in arena since you can usually survive the 5 damage and a 5/6 for 4 is super value.
Fireball kills a pit lord just as easily as a yeti. (Though admittedly it's better vs flame cannon + ping)
Save yourself 5hp, and play a piloted shredder; in 90% of games it'll give just as much board control
Except a piloted shredder can't kill a yeti or Taz'dingo... + you can't be sure to go against a mage 100% of the time, and they might not even have fireball.
Crazed Alchemist. It catches the same flack other 2/2s take: namely, it's lacking 1 stat as a 2/2 for 2. Big deal. It's an incredible ace up your sleeve as long as you're not exceedingly desperate on turn 2. I'm not even going to bother listing the ways it can be useful, just use your imagination. I'd even go so far as to argue it's among the best 2-drops, if you're going to get stuck with one, in top-deck wars. Obviously you're never looking for 2-mana cards in desperation mode, but it can slow down incoming damage, combo with hero abilities to take down threats, kill off shaman totems, etc. I'm certainly not arguing that it's the BEST card but so many people consider it an auto-skip, and I am actually more than willing to take it over many other cards.
Basically, any Stealth minions (except Shade of Naxxramas) for aggro decks are undervalued. For most intents and purposes, Stealth = Charge with better stats for the mana cost in The Arena.
The Stealth guys tend to deliver more "guaranteed" face damage. The exceptions are the opponent dropping a taunt or AoE effect, but both of these have become more rare in The Arena post-GvG.
Charge has the element of surprise, though. You can instantly make an favourable trade without the enemy having one turn to play around it. Not to mention that if it is down to the wire (you are going to die on your opponent's next turn), a Charge minion can win you a game you would otherwise have lost.
The direct Charge vs Stealth situation comes up pretty rarely in practice in the draft stage. However, Stealths can "work together" or synergize with a bunch of Chargers already in a deck. Based on subjective observation, not a lot of new Arena players seem to realize how good Stealth minions are at actually getting to hit the opponent's face in The Arena. There are quite a bunch of Arena plyers with bad records who always try to reconstruct their ranked ladder deck into Arena 1:1 (which, in general, you really should NOT be doing) because that's the only deck they know how to somewhat pilot, and since there are no commonly played Stealths in ranked ladder play (except Shade of Naxxramas and Gadgetzan Auctioneer + Conceal), these players tend to completely ignore the Stealths in the draft stage. Which can be an incorrect choice for their aggro deck.
I feel like with the the myriad tier lists and drafting tools that are now so pervasive this couldn't be so. Stranglethorn, Gilblin, and worgen are typically rated above average to great cards.
Yeah, I think most pundits value Stealth appropriately. I think the question is why Stealth is good, and in what type of deck.
For example if I am leaning to the aggressive side, I might want Tiger more than any other 5 drop, or even 3 and 4 drops, for use as a finisher. But the Tier list says that Silver Hand Knight, Venture Co, Spectral Knight, and a lot of 4 drops are better, so somebody makes a mistake and takes that.
For generic midrange board-control strategies, Stealth is already good enough because it blocks the opponent's opportunity to trade favorably against it, even when you are behind in tempo. But the tier lists tend to take into account that fact, and only that fact. It can't really take into account the texture of your deck and how often you're in that situation on board at around that turn window. Which leads to undervaluing in those situations if all a player is going by is the tier list.
Even when playing a control-ish Rogue, the benefit of regaining board control often means you can recoup the lost card advantage through preferential trades & saved HP.
Every time I get that card, it rules. I use every charge on trades. It's like 4 whirlind blades, such sweet value when your deck is low on weapons ( aka sucks ). Went 10-3 with a 0 weapon paladin. 0 weapons except.. one light's justice 8-) Just play it turn1 and then you have trade insurance for most of the game. So strong.
Hey guys,
I just wanted to start this thread to gain some opinoins, but also to have each other share some good strategies and or stories of cards that most people don't give much value to in arena, but turn out to be quite good. I often play druid and warrior in arena and I notice that claw is something a lot of people don't have a high opinion of, but it can be extremely helpful in maintaining/ gaining the board in the early game. The same goes for cleave, which I find not many people like as it faded from the meta a long time ago.
Fel Reaver
Since arena is usually much slower, you don't lose that many cards. There are also less chance for him to be hard removed. I have had great success with him, and I recommend to pick him up :)
While Southsea Deckhand might be good in one of the Weapons classes for aggro, I find Worgen Infiltrator is very undervalued, as it can sit there and force them to play around it on turn 1.
Hmmm... Pit Lord seems to be very undervalued since many people think Arena functions the same as Constructed. Pit Lord is bad in constructed because the meta is far too fast and Warlocks already lose too much health through life tap. However, pit lord is probably the best 4 drop (besides yeti) in arena since you can usually survive the 5 damage and a 5/6 for 4 is super value.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
I agree with all of this. *thumbs up*
I think worgen is great but if anything, I'd argue its value has actually gone down a bit post GvG due to the preponderance of 2-3's.
I still find that people value the 3/2's before 2/3's, only resorting to the 2/3 options if they have no choice or are afraid of not seeing anymore 2 drops late in the draft. You are correct though, there is more 2/3's that do make Worgen a little less threatening on turn 1. There is also Annoy-o-tron and Shielded minibot that puts a damper on it.
If a arena goes properly, I wouldn't want to draft one anyways, but it is not a dead card for sure.
I think people are still undervaluing the importance of 3 drops, especially at the expense of 4-5 drops.
I think Spider Tank over any 4-5 drop is correct, with the arguable exceptions of Water Elemental and Ambusher. Of course, people are valuing the premium 3 drops pretty high already, but how high is the question.
Scarlet Crusader, Ironfur Grizzly, Emperor Cobra, Kirin Tor Mage, and Razorfen Hunter all got much better. Anything with at least 3 health capable of killing a 3 health minion will often deliver an early freebie now.
Raging Worgen is often a terrible beating in today's Arena, particularly when coined.
Muster for Battle is a card that needs a hard counter, or it can end up winning the game. It is hard to stop multiple minions from hitting your face just by playing a solid midgame drop without Taunt. Three soldiers will do 6 damage while absorbing 12 if a Yeti is what you play against it and you are the one behind. It can also cause the Paladin Hero Power to snowball out of control. And generally, the Paladin aggro decks possible now are extremely unappreciated. Tons of previously difficult to use cards are now highly pickable due to the new GvG early game - Blessing of Might, Redemption, Avenge, Hand of Protection, Equality, and so on.
Wisp
This is some pretty valuable insight that I had never thought of before, thank you!
Charge has the element of surprise, though. You can instantly make an favourable trade without the enemy having one turn to play around it. Not to mention that if it is down to the wire (you are going to die on your opponent's next turn), a Charge minion can win you a game you would otherwise have lost.
Fireball kills a pit lord just as easily as a yeti. (Though admittedly it's better vs flame cannon + ping)
Save yourself 5hp, and play a piloted shredder; in 90% of games it'll give just as much board control
Except a piloted shredder can't kill a yeti or Taz'dingo... + you can't be sure to go against a mage 100% of the time, and they might not even have fireball.
Don't Complain, Use Your Brain!
Crazed Alchemist. It catches the same flack other 2/2s take: namely, it's lacking 1 stat as a 2/2 for 2. Big deal. It's an incredible ace up your sleeve as long as you're not exceedingly desperate on turn 2. I'm not even going to bother listing the ways it can be useful, just use your imagination. I'd even go so far as to argue it's among the best 2-drops, if you're going to get stuck with one, in top-deck wars. Obviously you're never looking for 2-mana cards in desperation mode, but it can slow down incoming damage, combo with hero abilities to take down threats, kill off shaman totems, etc. I'm certainly not arguing that it's the BEST card but so many people consider it an auto-skip, and I am actually more than willing to take it over many other cards.
I feel like with the the myriad tier lists and drafting tools that are now so pervasive this couldn't be so. Stranglethorn, Gilblin, and worgen are typically rated above average to great cards.
Yeah, I think most pundits value Stealth appropriately. I think the question is why Stealth is good, and in what type of deck.
For example if I am leaning to the aggressive side, I might want Tiger more than any other 5 drop, or even 3 and 4 drops, for use as a finisher. But the Tier list says that Silver Hand Knight, Venture Co, Spectral Knight, and a lot of 4 drops are better, so somebody makes a mistake and takes that.
For generic midrange board-control strategies, Stealth is already good enough because it blocks the opponent's opportunity to trade favorably against it, even when you are behind in tempo. But the tier lists tend to take into account that fact, and only that fact. It can't really take into account the texture of your deck and how often you're in that situation on board at around that turn window. Which leads to undervaluing in those situations if all a player is going by is the tier list.
Sap.
2 mana assassinate most of the time.
Even when playing a control-ish Rogue, the benefit of regaining board control often means you can recoup the lost card advantage through preferential trades & saved HP.
No love for Light's Justice?
Every time I get that card, it rules. I use every charge on trades. It's like 4 whirlind blades, such sweet value when your deck is low on weapons ( aka sucks ).
Went 10-3 with a 0 weapon paladin. 0 weapons except.. one light's justice 8-)
Just play it turn1 and then you have trade insurance for most of the game. So strong.
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