So in looking at my Stats on Heartharena, and I've realized that Hunter is both the worst class for me to play against, and the worst class for me to have.
I feel like since I am not good as or against hunter, I must fundamentally not understand the class.
So if there's any arena hunters out there, can you give me some advice as to what is the best way to play as and against them?
Hunter is a very high skill arena class. You have to decide when to trade and when to flip the switch and go all face while working in as many hero powers as you can. Playing a bad minion on turn 3 so you can play a 2 drop and hero power on the next turn can be the difference between winning and losing.
In your most recent hunter draft, picking the 2nd piranha launcher with your 3rd pick was a mistake, imo. Launcher is a very hard card to play, and while it does give great value over time the initial 5 mana investment can be hard to come by or play on curve consistently without getting run over. Picking 1 is great, the second one I would have picked either the sand worm or the murloc warleader, to be honest. On pick 23, I might have looked at ogre magi over than the arcanosmith, especially because you already had 2 quick shots and a kill command, but then again I don't like Arcanosmith that much. I think going with the Acolyte of pain over the ice rager on pick 4 would have been correct as well. Pick 9 was a toss up between Kill command and the kindly grandmother. I can't really argue with that pick there, the extra burn can be really helpful in closing out a game. I don't really know how you played the deck but I think you probably needed to weave more hero powers into your curve. For example, turn 4 play a 2 drop and hero power rather than two 2 drops if you don't have a 4. Same thing on turn 5, play a 3 drop and hero power rather than a 3 and a 2. Late game, hero power every turn you can, obviously, and start counting damage you have on board and in hand to determine when you can lethal him. Even if you can't kill him on a certain turn, if you have lethal in the next two turns and a beast on board and kill command in hand, let it rip on his face because your opponent will probably clear your beasts as soon as they can. Anyway, good luck on playing hunter in arena! It's definitely a high skill, high reward class but the games are tense and often come down to how well you are able to weave your hero power into your curve.
Thinking back, getting in Hero powers was something that wasn't on my mind at all. If ever I have to pick a Hunter again, I'll definitely do my best to do that.
Do you have any advice for playing against hunter in arena?
I've found the best strategy to use against hunter is to be aggressive. Hunter is by design the most aggressive class in the game, but if you can force the hunter to think more about preserving their own life rather than pushing damage on you, you force them away from their natural strategy. Hunter is very weak on recovery, so if you can get ahead and keep pushing, you make it very difficult for them to get back in the game. For instance, I recently played against a hunter as druid, and on Turn 1 (going first), I faced a choice: save Living Roots for removal, or hit the board running with the Saplings. Since I had a 2- and 3- drop to follow-up (shocking in this meta, actually), I went ahead and dropped the 1/1's. As the game progressed I repeatedly chose face over trading, forcing the hunter to do the trades. Long story short, I won that game with full health. Now granted, one game is just one game, but it's an example of how being aggressive against hunter can be beneficial. Hope that helps.
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Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
In my experience, and in Kripp's experience based on his recent video (I don't remember which video it was), Hunter's ability to win is greatly based on whether they go first or not. Going first gives me a 71% winrate, while going second is 62%. I get that that's not what you want to hear, but a lot of it is based on luck. What the people above me said covers the rest of what I would say.
Giant sand worm is extremely good in Hunter actually. It's basically a 8/8 taunt, like a much better ironbark protector. I've won plenty of games with it. Plus it's a beast.
Smuggler's crate is also pretty lowly valued by HearthArena, even though it's basically a 1 mana 2/2 charge most of the time, and you don't feel too bad if you played on turn 1.
Which goes to my next point that I probably would've picked kindly grandmother over kill command. For classes without a ping you REALLY want to curve out. If you hero power on turn 2 as a hunter that's as bad as hero powering as a warrior. So for Hunter I actually prefer curve picks over value picks. Kill command is kind of a trap since it's not a curve pick and it's only a conditional 5 damage burst.
The general strategy is you only hold board control for like turn 2-5 max, then you just start going face regardless if you can make good trades. Hunters are about relinquishing board control early in favour of SMorC.
With all that said however, Hunters aren't *THAT* good. It's very dependent on who you face and if you curve out well (if you can curve out at all with your deck.)
As for how to play against hunter, you place more emphasis on tempo than value. Basically bait their minions to attack your minions instead of going face so you can outlast them. Don't really hold onto your cards. Use them and remove their board as immediately as you can.
The key to beating hunter is tempo and board control. Playing Hunter correctly you'll want max tempo to establish a board, turns 1-4 should never include a hero power if you can help it. Take the board early, know when to trade and how to hold board control for as long as you can (turn 6-8 ideally), then smash face with all of your tempo before the big AOEs show up and hero power your way to victory after you've lost the board.
In my experience, and in Kripp's experience based on his recent video (I don't remember which video it was), Hunter's ability to win is greatly based on whether they go first or not. Going first gives me a 71% winrate, while going second is 62%. I get that that's not what you want to hear, but a lot of it is based on luck. What the people above me said covers the rest of what I would say.
Yeah, not really what I want to hear, expecially since I lose significantly more against hunter when I go first. Going first, I win 33% of the time, but going second, I win 62% of the time.
If I'm supposed to win more going first, then I really don't understand :(
I notice that others mention that tempo early game is really important against hunter. It sounds like your ultimate objective is to get them to trade. Thinking about recent games, Maybe I should be greedier with my mulligans? I did keep a doppelgangster and Wickerflame Burnbristle in my opening hand going first against hunter in my most recent paladin arena game. I figured, I have a ton of hand buffs, so I should always keep Gangsters. But I lost :/ I have a feeling i made other misplays that game, but perhaps It starts with mulliganing for early game. I didn't have a card to play on turn 2. Maybe that's what lead to it.
I'll definitely try to play more aggressively against Hunter.
You should be less greedy (semantics but whatever). You need to focus on getting a play every turn and making value trades and gaining tempo. That's how you beat Hunter.
Keeping Dopplegangster in your opening hand would be a mistake in EVERY match, but it especially punishing against hunter. The power of consistently having a well stated minion on turns 2, 3, and 4 is critical to having consistent success with all classes. if you can add a good 1 drop as well then you will usually just win. Against hunter, all of this is true and even more important since you will usually lose to the hunter's hero power if you can't take early board control and prevent minion damage on turns 1-5.
There are actually very few 4 drops i would keep unless I already had a good 2 AND 3. I suspect more than anything if you are losing more games going first than second it is because you aren't mulliganing aggressively enough for 1, 2, and 3 drops.
Agree with a lot of what has been said here. Also, I find that with Hunter a knowledge of exactly what reach cards you have left in your deck is vital. This aids you in flipping the switch. The other thing I think that's really important in Hunter more so than other classes is knowledge of your match ups. If you are playing a Priest or a Warrior then the board becomes much more important and you'll be flipping the switch much later out of choice. If you're playing Mage/Rogue/Warlock, you'll be going face almost exclusively. The remaining classes are a judgement call based on how the turns unfold. Shaman/Paladin can be tricky if they have anti hunter cards, but mostly you can come out on top knowing when their powerful anti hunter cards come out and playing accordingly. (Lay on Hands/Grimestreet Protector/Healing Wave etc etc)
So in looking at my Stats on Heartharena, and I've realized that Hunter is both the worst class for me to play against, and the worst class for me to have.
I feel like since I am not good as or against hunter, I must fundamentally not understand the class.
So if there's any arena hunters out there, can you give me some advice as to what is the best way to play as and against them?
BTW here's my Arena Profile if that helps at all. http://www.heartharena.com/profile/kaioxys
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
Hunter is a very high skill arena class. You have to decide when to trade and when to flip the switch and go all face while working in as many hero powers as you can. Playing a bad minion on turn 3 so you can play a 2 drop and hero power on the next turn can be the difference between winning and losing.
In your most recent hunter draft, picking the 2nd piranha launcher with your 3rd pick was a mistake, imo. Launcher is a very hard card to play, and while it does give great value over time the initial 5 mana investment can be hard to come by or play on curve consistently without getting run over. Picking 1 is great, the second one I would have picked either the sand worm or the murloc warleader, to be honest. On pick 23, I might have looked at ogre magi over than the arcanosmith, especially because you already had 2 quick shots and a kill command, but then again I don't like Arcanosmith that much. I think going with the Acolyte of pain over the ice rager on pick 4 would have been correct as well. Pick 9 was a toss up between Kill command and the kindly grandmother. I can't really argue with that pick there, the extra burn can be really helpful in closing out a game. I don't really know how you played the deck but I think you probably needed to weave more hero powers into your curve. For example, turn 4 play a 2 drop and hero power rather than two 2 drops if you don't have a 4. Same thing on turn 5, play a 3 drop and hero power rather than a 3 and a 2. Late game, hero power every turn you can, obviously, and start counting damage you have on board and in hand to determine when you can lethal him. Even if you can't kill him on a certain turn, if you have lethal in the next two turns and a beast on board and kill command in hand, let it rip on his face because your opponent will probably clear your beasts as soon as they can. Anyway, good luck on playing hunter in arena! It's definitely a high skill, high reward class but the games are tense and often come down to how well you are able to weave your hero power into your curve.
Thanks alot for your advice!
Thinking back, getting in Hero powers was something that wasn't on my mind at all. If ever I have to pick a Hunter again, I'll definitely do my best to do that.
Do you have any advice for playing against hunter in arena?
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
I've found the best strategy to use against hunter is to be aggressive. Hunter is by design the most aggressive class in the game, but if you can force the hunter to think more about preserving their own life rather than pushing damage on you, you force them away from their natural strategy. Hunter is very weak on recovery, so if you can get ahead and keep pushing, you make it very difficult for them to get back in the game. For instance, I recently played against a hunter as druid, and on Turn 1 (going first), I faced a choice: save Living Roots for removal, or hit the board running with the Saplings. Since I had a 2- and 3- drop to follow-up (shocking in this meta, actually), I went ahead and dropped the 1/1's. As the game progressed I repeatedly chose face over trading, forcing the hunter to do the trades. Long story short, I won that game with full health. Now granted, one game is just one game, but it's an example of how being aggressive against hunter can be beneficial. Hope that helps.
Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
In my experience, and in Kripp's experience based on his recent video (I don't remember which video it was), Hunter's ability to win is greatly based on whether they go first or not. Going first gives me a 71% winrate, while going second is 62%. I get that that's not what you want to hear, but a lot of it is based on luck. What the people above me said covers the rest of what I would say.
Giant sand worm is extremely good in Hunter actually. It's basically a 8/8 taunt, like a much better ironbark protector. I've won plenty of games with it. Plus it's a beast.
Smuggler's crate is also pretty lowly valued by HearthArena, even though it's basically a 1 mana 2/2 charge most of the time, and you don't feel too bad if you played on turn 1.
Which goes to my next point that I probably would've picked kindly grandmother over kill command. For classes without a ping you REALLY want to curve out. If you hero power on turn 2 as a hunter that's as bad as hero powering as a warrior. So for Hunter I actually prefer curve picks over value picks. Kill command is kind of a trap since it's not a curve pick and it's only a conditional 5 damage burst.
The general strategy is you only hold board control for like turn 2-5 max, then you just start going face regardless if you can make good trades. Hunters are about relinquishing board control early in favour of SMorC.
With all that said however, Hunters aren't *THAT* good. It's very dependent on who you face and if you curve out well (if you can curve out at all with your deck.)
As for how to play against hunter, you place more emphasis on tempo than value. Basically bait their minions to attack your minions instead of going face so you can outlast them. Don't really hold onto your cards. Use them and remove their board as immediately as you can.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
The key to beating hunter is tempo and board control. Playing Hunter correctly you'll want max tempo to establish a board, turns 1-4 should never include a hero power if you can help it. Take the board early, know when to trade and how to hold board control for as long as you can (turn 6-8 ideally), then smash face with all of your tempo before the big AOEs show up and hero power your way to victory after you've lost the board.
Oh and hope they didn't pick priest or warrior.
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
You should be less greedy (semantics but whatever). You need to focus on getting a play every turn and making value trades and gaining tempo. That's how you beat Hunter.
Keeping Dopplegangster in your opening hand would be a mistake in EVERY match, but it especially punishing against hunter. The power of consistently having a well stated minion on turns 2, 3, and 4 is critical to having consistent success with all classes. if you can add a good 1 drop as well then you will usually just win. Against hunter, all of this is true and even more important since you will usually lose to the hunter's hero power if you can't take early board control and prevent minion damage on turns 1-5.
There are actually very few 4 drops i would keep unless I already had a good 2 AND 3. I suspect more than anything if you are losing more games going first than second it is because you aren't mulliganing aggressively enough for 1, 2, and 3 drops.
Agree with a lot of what has been said here. Also, I find that with Hunter a knowledge of exactly what reach cards you have left in your deck is vital. This aids you in flipping the switch. The other thing I think that's really important in Hunter more so than other classes is knowledge of your match ups. If you are playing a Priest or a Warrior then the board becomes much more important and you'll be flipping the switch much later out of choice. If you're playing Mage/Rogue/Warlock, you'll be going face almost exclusively. The remaining classes are a judgement call based on how the turns unfold. Shaman/Paladin can be tricky if they have anti hunter cards, but mostly you can come out on top knowing when their powerful anti hunter cards come out and playing accordingly. (Lay on Hands/Grimestreet Protector/Healing Wave etc etc)
http://i.imgur.com/yNQirIJ.gifv
Just wanted to say thanks alot for all your advice!
Recently I've been doing much better against hunters in arena! I now have a positive winrate!
That's all, Toodles!
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild