The capacity of this community for whining is incredible. Every playstyle is represented in tier 1 or tier 2. No deck is overpowered relative to the others (see VS winrates for evidence if in doubt). More classes are ladder-viable than have been in over a year.
People whine about Reno being the only viable control deck. Well, at least there are multiple Reno decks. It's much more interesting than when every self-proclaimed control player was just running the most recent Fibonacci Warrior list. Control Warrior doesn't have to be the only way that control is played in the game. And in about three short months, Shaman will get gutted and Reno will disappear. The meta will change dramatically.
We've been in very bad spots in recent months; but are actually pretty good now. Players need to adapt and quit whining when their old favorites can't hack it anymore. If you had told me in winter 2015 that Shaman and Rogue would be tier 1 and Priest would have multiple viable decks at the same time in the future, I would've thought there would be parades in Bed Brode's honor.
I don't really enjoy this meta. I'm looking forward to the next expansion and the rotation of cards out of standard.
Like many have said before, a majority of games are vs. the "Pirate opening" group or vs a Reno deck. Yes they are in different classes, but they don't really play that differently(Kibler mentioned this in his video). To me that isn't very fun.
I'm not salty, I'm not mad, I just don't want to play as much. Which for now is fine.
Personally I think there will be some nerfs of MSG cards at the end of this month, including Small-Time Buccaneer. Even if that makes people mad, at least it would change things up until the next expansion.
I don't even want to watch players on Twitch do ladder except earlier in the month when they experiment more - experimentation with decks is more fun to me than watching the same decks over and over and over...
imho pirate warrior (pw) is highly overrated... it might have some matchups that feel crushingly strong, but aggro shaman shits on PW and so does control shaman/warrior and dragon priest as long as any reno deck with lucky draw. pirate warrior might be common in ranks 15-11 but once you leave that behind, you dont see overwhelmingly many of them...
aggro shaman is a whole different story tho... you almost cant have a bad hand and you dont run out of steam as fast as pw does. still it can be beaten. not by one, but by quite a few other decks. of course it is annoying that laddering from rank 10-5 is 50% shaman matchups, but if you tech accordingly you can reach at least rank 5 with ANY of the current tier 1 or 2 decks and if you get lucky maybe even well optimized tier 3 decks.
and lets be honest, before msg you had to play against shaman every second match too. at least now we have the possibilities to beat shaman with decks that are actually viable too, and way more fun.
every time one of my games goes to fatigue i pity those aggro players that never get to enjoy the fun of a real game, lasting more than 6-10 rounds...
This. People saying it's the healthiest yet are just another breed of shortsighted.
So in that case, which one was the healthiest (at least in your opinion)? Maybe then we can get a baseline for what your ideal meta would actually resemble.
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I also like how people keep listing Patron like it was some sort of cancer, when it was actually one of the most skill-intensive and player defined decks to play. Just shows a sign of the shortsightedness overall.
I also like how people keep listing Patron like it was some sort of cancer, when it was actually one of the most skill-intensive and player defined decks to play. Just shows a sign of the shortsightedness overall.
Skill-intensive yes, but also problematic in its own way. I actually was someone in the camp of wanting to keep it, but it's hard to argue with how badly it warped the competitive scene. Maybe it's fixable with bans (similar to Mid Shaman), but for the most part if your deck is running ~50% winrate against the worst matchup then you probably need to adjust something.
I think the main issue is it felt equally as bad to lose to 40 damage burst as it does 40 damage by turn 4 when your opponent just draws the nuts.
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Yeah, basically. It's a little ridiculous how people blow it out of proportion. I mean do we really think any other meta has touched the Undertaker days? Do we really want pre-nerf Miracle or Patron back?
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I also like how people keep listing Patron like it was some sort of cancer, when it was actually one of the most skill-intensive and player defined decks to play. Just shows a sign of the shortsightedness overall.
Skill-intensive yes, but doing burst 20-40 OTK damage with both Frothing and Patron is not okay. Remember that Warsong was not nerf back then, the presence of Frothing plus continually summoning Patron was unstoppable for the opponent to clear.
You probably miss them too much if you didn't play enough or forgot about Warsong's pre-nerf existence back in the days.
Yeah, basically. It's a little ridiculous how people blow it out of proportion. I mean do we really think any other meta has touched the Undertaker days? Do we really want pre-nerf Miracle or Patron back?
Even in the undertaker meta you didn't die at turn 4 when you play doomsayer at turn 2.Blizzard managed to create a even more shitier meta than the dominance of midshaman.
Yeah, basically. It's a little ridiculous how people blow it out of proportion. I mean do we really think any other meta has touched the Undertaker days? Do we really want pre-nerf Miracle or Patron back?
Even in the undertaker meta you didn't die at turn 4 when you play doomsayer at turn 2.Blizzard managed to create a even more shitier meta than the dominance of midshaman.
I'd argue dying on Turn 4 with a Doomsayer is a rarity. But that's mostly just been my practical experience with the matchup. You'll see videos like Kibler's where he gets blown out in the scenario, but I'll be honest... that's the nuts.
Worse than last meta is certainly an opinion that's going to vary from person to person, but looking solely at edge cases is a poor way to analyze something from a meta standpoint. I'd argue Undertaker was on average harder to compete with than Pirates.
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The problem of this meta is T1 decks are far stronger than any other decks, nearly no chance to come up with something new and actually win some games.
Again, not true. Dragon Priest and Renolock for example are considered Tier 2 Decks and still have decent and really enjoyable laddering capabilities.
That's not really what he's saying though. He's saying that the strongest decks are so strong that "fun" decks are almost impossible to climb with. Which is true to a certain extent. The "power" of fun decks is that no one knows your decklist and has no real clue what to expect. If you're facing aggro shaman or warrior it doesn't really matter though since they kill ineffecient decks in 5-6 turns most of the time.
i dont get the point. "fun decks" are unoptimized decks with new and innovative combinations and playstyles. you dont play fun decks to reach rank 5 or legend with them, because the very nature of unoptimized decks is, that they loose to finetuned competetive decks in ladder. it has been this way forever... even before msg fundecks like cardsteal-rogue never stood a chance against midrange shaman, and thats ok because laddering is not the point of a fun deck...
The point is that the gap between optmized decks and "fun" decks, have never been so big.
A large amount of players play fun decks both to rank 5 and to legend, just fyi.
The problem of this meta is T1 decks are far stronger than any other decks, nearly no chance to come up with something new and actually win some games.
Again, not true. Dragon Priest and Renolock for example are considered Tier 2 Decks and still have decent and really enjoyable laddering capabilities.
That's not really what he's saying though. He's saying that the strongest decks are so strong that "fun" decks are almost impossible to climb with. Which is true to a certain extent. The "power" of fun decks is that no one knows your decklist and has no real clue what to expect. If you're facing aggro shaman or warrior it doesn't really matter though since they kill ineffecient decks in 5-6 turns most of the time.
i dont get the point. "fun decks" are unoptimized decks with new and innovative combinations and playstyles. you dont play fun decks to reach rank 5 or legend with them, because the very nature of unoptimized decks is, that they loose to finetuned competetive decks in ladder. it has been this way forever... even before msg fundecks like cardsteal-rogue never stood a chance against midrange shaman, and thats ok because laddering is not the point of a fun deck...
The point is that the gap between optmized decks and "fun" decks, have never been so big.
A large amount of players play fun decks both to rank 5 and to legend, just fyi.
That's just a matter of people figuring out the game quicker and quicker because we know it better. Things were a lot less optimized in beta and early launch. So that's not really saying anything.
Well I just made it to Rank 6 today from Rank 13! I thought about what a lot of people defending the Meta said here about ADAPT or EXIT, now I play only Pirate Warrior and I've been climbing the ladder quite fast tbh. Thank you for letting me see the light though guys, I am finally a "skilled" player like all of you.
The problem today is that the cancer has no counter. Im not playing standard anymore until changes come but the real problem is wild slowly becoming this standard meta 2.0...
The capacity of this community for whining is incredible. Every playstyle is represented in tier 1 or tier 2. No deck is overpowered relative to the others (see VS winrates for evidence if in doubt). More classes are ladder-viable than have been in over a year.
People whine about Reno being the only viable control deck. Well, at least there are multiple Reno decks. It's much more interesting than when every self-proclaimed control player was just running the most recent Fibonacci Warrior list. Control Warrior doesn't have to be the only way that control is played in the game. And in about three short months, Shaman will get gutted and Reno will disappear. The meta will change dramatically.
We've been in very bad spots in recent months; but are actually pretty good now. Players need to adapt and quit whining when their old favorites can't hack it anymore. If you had told me in winter 2015 that Shaman and Rogue would be tier 1 and Priest would have multiple viable decks at the same time in the future, I would've thought there would be parades in Bed Brode's honor.
I don't really enjoy this meta. I'm looking forward to the next expansion and the rotation of cards out of standard.
Like many have said before, a majority of games are vs. the "Pirate opening" group or vs a Reno deck. Yes they are in different classes, but they don't really play that differently(Kibler mentioned this in his video). To me that isn't very fun.
I'm not salty, I'm not mad, I just don't want to play as much. Which for now is fine.
Personally I think there will be some nerfs of MSG cards at the end of this month, including Small-Time Buccaneer. Even if that makes people mad, at least it would change things up until the next expansion.
I don't even want to watch players on Twitch do ladder except earlier in the month when they experiment more - experimentation with decks is more fun to me than watching the same decks over and over and over...
imho pirate warrior (pw) is highly overrated... it might have some matchups that feel crushingly strong, but aggro shaman shits on PW and so does control shaman/warrior and dragon priest as long as any reno deck with lucky draw. pirate warrior might be common in ranks 15-11 but once you leave that behind, you dont see overwhelmingly many of them...
aggro shaman is a whole different story tho... you almost cant have a bad hand and you dont run out of steam as fast as pw does. still it can be beaten. not by one, but by quite a few other decks. of course it is annoying that laddering from rank 10-5 is 50% shaman matchups, but if you tech accordingly you can reach at least rank 5 with ANY of the current tier 1 or 2 decks and if you get lucky maybe even well optimized tier 3 decks.
and lets be honest, before msg you had to play against shaman every second match too. at least now we have the possibilities to beat shaman with decks that are actually viable too, and way more fun.
every time one of my games goes to fatigue i pity those aggro players that never get to enjoy the fun of a real game, lasting more than 6-10 rounds...
its always the shittiest meta ever, but dont worry, the next one will be shittier and there will be more babyrage then, wohooo!
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
I also like how people keep listing Patron like it was some sort of cancer, when it was actually one of the most skill-intensive and player defined decks to play. Just shows a sign of the shortsightedness overall.
hasn't every new meta been the worst of all time?
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Well I just made it to Rank 6 today from Rank 13! I thought about what a lot of people defending the Meta said here about ADAPT or EXIT, now I play only Pirate Warrior and I've been climbing the ladder quite fast tbh. Thank you for letting me see the light though guys, I am finally a "skilled" player like all of you.
The problem today is that the cancer has no counter. Im not playing standard anymore until changes come but the real problem is wild slowly becoming this standard meta 2.0...
LOL they dont even use DR.Boom in wild now. Who care when you cant live past turn 6