Except you are a fanboy without critical thought, a really optimistic guy or a terrible card quality assessor, you should agree that SO FAR, most card releases have been ranging from underwhelming to infuriating.
My feeling is their plan is (1) to release a bulk of shitty cards that wont make the meta tremble (since the meta is pretty stabilized and diverse at the moment and they dont want to break it), (2) to give some very good cards to the classes that are underplayed (shaman) and (3) to release some cool and powerful legendaries (yet to be seen, besides the twins which i dont feel will be as played as people think) and maybe a couple of good epics so people will buy the overall bad TGT packs. Broken commons or rares affect the meta way more than powerful legendaries and they are the building blocks of decks.
A second theory, but a much more tinfoil hat one, is that they are testing the player base: They want to see how much we are willing to blindly spend in a subpar product just because it has the hearthstone brand. This theory has two possible outcomes: (1) after they finish testing our stupidity with the pre-release they will release most of the good and ok cards or (2) they will just release bad content and count our dollars while they sip drinks from coconuts with little umbrellas.
Thoughts? Offended because you think you are nor a fanboy or a bad player and you wanna defend TGT because "most streamers thought Dr. Boom was bad, yadda yadda"?
I am not preordering till all the cards get released. If expansion comes out before every card is released, Blizz will lose tons of customers. If there's few or no good cards, no point buying any packs. Also Boom is overdue for a nerf and I believe he will still be #1 after the expansion anyway, making the need for other legs far less.
I am hoping that they will release the good cards later! I think that they can do (design wise) much better cards than these and even if their imagination is running low they can take great ideas from the community.. The game has potential.. We we be able to say for sure whether this exp is a good product as soon as all cards will be released!!
I don't see any problem to break the meta and why not ? do u want to the game to be like the same meta for 3 years ahead ?? every good game break the meta at least 3 months +
1) The cards are better than expected (such as many thought of Grim Patron) and in fact will be quite viable on release (this may or may not be combined with other cards we have yet to see increasing the viability of the current cards, such as with anti-aggro cards to slow down the meta).
2) The more likely option: They are working really, really hard to prevent power creep. Even slight buffs to some of these cards could make them easy replacements for a lot of existing cards, which would invalidate the previous sets. If a card is ever an easy decision to include it probably means its better than existing cards, and if this happens for every set, later cards will be MUCH better than early cards.
The problem is basically the same power creep problem than in every ccg: they will come at a point where the only way to create cards that really affect the game is to just make them strictly better than existing ones. Still they have to keep this process slow, so they will throw a lot of underwhelming stuff among some really good stuff into every expansion... until the day where they finally realize that they have to come up with "formats": An eternal format with all the cards that will be very stable, and a format with the last 3-5 expansions that will be rapidly changing.
So, basically this is where the "demonfuses" are coming from, I only fear that they are too cautious of power creep and put too few good cards in the expansion, making it very boring! In Magic there was for example the legendary "homelands" expansion (somewhere in the mid 90s) that was 150 cards with about 2-3 playable cards.
There are only 35/132 cards released. While I agree you can judge any card individually for value, it is ridiculous for everyone to already be up in arms about how "bad" this expansion is when we have only seen <20% of the new cards and we don't have a full picture of how the inspire mechanic will work.
They want to see how much we are willing to blindly spend in a subpar product just because it has the hearthstone brand. This theory has two possible outcomes: (1) after they finish testing our stupidity with the pre-release they will release most of the good and ok cards or (2) they will just release bad content and count our dollars while they sip drinks from coconuts with little umbrellas.
Magic did the r&d for all CCG, you don't create shitty cards in a 2015 game for anything else than making money. So I vote (2).
Er, with what context are you bringing up Magic doing all the R&D? Because they've published multiple articles on why bad cards are designed.
There are only 35/132 cards released. While I agree you can judge any card individually for value, it is ridiculous for everyone to already be up in arms about how "bad" this expansion is when we have only seen <20% of the new cards and we don't have a full picture of how the inspire mechanic will work.
Hmm.. let me calculate... 16 class cards shown so far... tGT has 9 more cards then GvG, which had 123... Likely every class will get 9 class cards... 81 class - 16 = 65... 132 - 35 = 97... 97 - 65 = 32 neutral cards yet to be revealed...
We haven't seen half of the neutrals yet, so I have hope.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
atm the cards we have seen seems to be bad, except few. But we have seen only little more than 30 cards, so there is still almost 100 cards left to be revealed. And before we see them (and try them), we cant really say wich is bad and wich is not. People also thought dr. Balanced was a bad card when gvg came out! and they propably reveal best ones near at the end? :)
A kid is scoring 50s in every test, and now you're expecting him to score an 80 on this one. Logic people.
So don't expect the remaining 100 cards to be any different in quality than the revealed ones.
This! Most people are optimistic and think: we havent seen all the cards, the good ones are about to come... but we have no reason whatsoever to be sure the average quality will change.
A kid is scoring 50s in every test, and now you're expecting him to score an 80 on this one. Logic people.
So don't expect the remaining 100 cards to be any different in quality than the revealed ones.
This! Most people are optimistic and think: we havent seen all the cards, the good ones are about to come... but we have no reason whatsoever to be sure the average quality will change.
The average card quality isn't as bad as people are saying imo. I posted this list in another thread but I'll post it here too - my thoughts on the quality of the revealed cards so far:
Cards I'm confident will see play:
Totem Golem
Tuskarr Totemic
Fallen Hero
Effigy
Savage Combatant
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Justicar Trueheart
Cards there's a good chance will see play:
Maiden of the Lake
Holy Champion
Clockwork Knight
Draenei Totem Carver
Thunder Bluff Valiant
Lock and Load
Garrison Commander
Coldarra Drake
Frost Giant
Nexus Champion Saraad
Sky Cap'n Kragg
Cards which won't make it in constructed but will be arena worthy:
Lowly Squire
Flame Juggler
Spellslinger
Silver Hand Regent
Silent Knight
Tournament Medic
North Sea Kraken
King's Defender
Coliseum Manager
Kodorider
Argent Horserider
Wilfred Fizzlebang
Cards which are just plain bad:
Demonfuse
Argent Watchman
Ball of Spiders
Poisoned Blade
So as you can see (though I'm sure you might disagree with some of my assessments) over half of the cards revealed thus far are likely to see constructed play, and all but four are arena worthy.
And I'm sure I missed a few. Several, probably, for GVG. Keeping in mind that there are only ever 600 slots for cards TOTAL among the top-20 decks in the meta, and every new card has a larger set of cards it has to compete with, I'd say that Blizzard has done a pretty damn good job keeping the meta flowing. We didn't get a huge amount of cards with BRM, but we did get two completely new archetypes (Patron Warrior and Waker Mage). TGT is introducing an entirely new mechanic, and it's literally impossible to tell how that's going to shake the meta up. But to think for even a moment that there isn't going to be a solid dozen minimum meta-changing, deck-defining cards along the lines of the ones you see up there under GvG is sheer foolishness.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
People keep complaining cards are bad. I remember when people were complaining patron was bad. Haunted creeper was bad. etc etc. These cards will fall in line with the rest. You will complain... but guess what? In a month you are gonna be farming packs or using dust to make em. So just enjoy that we are going to be able to advance instead of them letting the game dry out.
Plus as usual they may senergize well with the rest of the set. We have not seen all the cards and some of them are pretty f'n amazing. From drake, to miracle hunter, priest and shaman cards. They will be seen in the meta and arena players should be stoked because honestly alot of these are great arena cards.
People keep complaining cards are bad. I remember when people were complaining patron was bad. Haunted creeper was bad. etc etc. These cards will fall in line with the rest. You will complain... but guess what? In a month you are gonna be farming packs or using dust to make em. So just enjoy that we are going to be able to advance instead of them letting the game dry out.
Plus as usual they may senergize well with the rest of the set. We have not seen all the cards and some of them are pretty f'n amazing. From drake, to miracle hunter, priest and shaman cards. They will be seen in the meta and arena players should be stoked because honestly alot of these are great arena cards.
people complained that Sludge Belcher was bad!! i remember seeing tons of posts
The new cards (so far) might be underwhelming to players with near full collections, but might be perfect fits to newer players. North Sea Kraken is not the best overall 9 drop, but it might be SOMEONES best 9 drop. Making HS more accessible is crucial to the longevity of the game, these new cards are Blizzards attempt to help that. Dont worry, Im sure the OP bombs are coming.
Everything has a purpose, even if the meta isn't made for it. You play Flame Lance as a way to get more removal in a mage deck then normally possible. Which will work if big minions are being played in high volume.
The main reason people see these cards as bad, is because they don't fit current meta.
On a plus side, Agrro hasn't been getting many tools to use either (Argent Horserider is more so meant for trading), so perhaps aggro gets a little shafted in the expansion, and control becomes more varied.
Except you are a fanboy without critical thought, a really optimistic guy or a terrible card quality assessor, you should agree that SO FAR, most card releases have been ranging from underwhelming to infuriating.
My feeling is their plan is (1) to release a bulk of shitty cards that wont make the meta tremble (since the meta is pretty stabilized and diverse at the moment and they dont want to break it), (2) to give some very good cards to the classes that are underplayed (shaman) and (3) to release some cool and powerful legendaries (yet to be seen, besides the twins which i dont feel will be as played as people think) and maybe a couple of good epics so people will buy the overall bad TGT packs. Broken commons or rares affect the meta way more than powerful legendaries and they are the building blocks of decks.
A second theory, but a much more tinfoil hat one, is that they are testing the player base: They want to see how much we are willing to blindly spend in a subpar product just because it has the hearthstone brand. This theory has two possible outcomes: (1) after they finish testing our stupidity with the pre-release they will release most of the good and ok cards or (2) they will just release bad content and count our dollars while they sip drinks from coconuts with little umbrellas.
Thoughts? Offended because you think you are nor a fanboy or a bad player and you wanna defend TGT because "most streamers thought Dr. Boom was bad, yadda yadda"?
I am not preordering till all the cards get released. If expansion comes out before every card is released, Blizz will lose tons of customers. If there's few or no good cards, no point buying any packs. Also Boom is overdue for a nerf and I believe he will still be #1 after the expansion anyway, making the need for other legs far less.
I am hoping that they will release the good cards later! I think that they can do (design wise) much better cards than these and even if their imagination is running low they can take great ideas from the community.. The game has potential.. We we be able to say for sure whether this exp is a good product as soon as all cards will be released!!
I don't see any problem to break the meta and why not ? do u want to the game to be like the same meta for 3 years ahead ?? every good game break the meta at least 3 months +
I feel it's one of two things:
1) The cards are better than expected (such as many thought of Grim Patron) and in fact will be quite viable on release (this may or may not be combined with other cards we have yet to see increasing the viability of the current cards, such as with anti-aggro cards to slow down the meta).
2) The more likely option: They are working really, really hard to prevent power creep. Even slight buffs to some of these cards could make them easy replacements for a lot of existing cards, which would invalidate the previous sets. If a card is ever an easy decision to include it probably means its better than existing cards, and if this happens for every set, later cards will be MUCH better than early cards.
The problem is basically the same power creep problem than in every ccg: they will come at a point where the only way to create cards that really affect the game is to just make them strictly better than existing ones. Still they have to keep this process slow, so they will throw a lot of underwhelming stuff among some really good stuff into every expansion... until the day where they finally realize that they have to come up with "formats": An eternal format with all the cards that will be very stable, and a format with the last 3-5 expansions that will be rapidly changing.
So, basically this is where the "demonfuses" are coming from, I only fear that they are too cautious of power creep and put too few good cards in the expansion, making it very boring! In Magic there was for example the legendary "homelands" expansion (somewhere in the mid 90s) that was 150 cards with about 2-3 playable cards.
There are only 35/132 cards released. While I agree you can judge any card individually for value, it is ridiculous for everyone to already be up in arms about how "bad" this expansion is when we have only seen <20% of the new cards and we don't have a full picture of how the inspire mechanic will work.
Er, with what context are you bringing up Magic doing all the R&D? Because they've published multiple articles on why bad cards are designed.
Hmm.. let me calculate... 16 class cards shown so far... tGT has 9 more cards then GvG, which had 123... Likely every class will get 9 class cards... 81 class - 16 = 65... 132 - 35 = 97... 97 - 65 = 32 neutral cards yet to be revealed...
We haven't seen half of the neutrals yet, so I have hope.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.
atm the cards we have seen seems to be bad, except few. But we have seen only little more than 30 cards, so there is still almost 100 cards left to be revealed. And before we see them (and try them), we cant really say wich is bad and wich is not. People also thought dr. Balanced was a bad card when gvg came out! and they propably reveal best ones near at the end? :)
A kid is scoring 50s in every test, and now you're expecting him to score an 80 on this one. Logic people.
So don't expect the remaining 100 cards to be any different in quality than the revealed ones.
This! Most people are optimistic and think: we havent seen all the cards, the good ones are about to come... but we have no reason whatsoever to be sure the average quality will change.
The average card quality isn't as bad as people are saying imo. I posted this list in another thread but I'll post it here too - my thoughts on the quality of the revealed cards so far:
Cards I'm confident will see play:
Cards there's a good chance will see play:
Cards which won't make it in constructed but will be arena worthy:
Cards which are just plain bad:
So as you can see (though I'm sure you might disagree with some of my assessments) over half of the cards revealed thus far are likely to see constructed play, and all but four are arena worthy.
2-3 cards per set that are useful? Let's see: without any research, just purely offhand...
Naxx: Haunted Creeper, Zombie Chow, Loatheb, Sludge Belcher, Duplicate, Webspinner, Death's Bite, and Shade of Naxxramas all have slots in top-20 decks.
GvG: Mechwarper, Piloted Shredder, Antique Healbot, Whirling Zap-o-matic, Powermace, Darkbomb, Flamecannon, Glaivezooka, Imp-losion, Goblin Blastmage, Shielded Minibot, Muster for Battle, and Dr. Boom all have slots in top-20 decks.
BRM: Grim Patron, Emperor Thaurissan, Quick Shot, Flamewaker, and Imp Gang Boss all have spots in top-20 decks.
And I'm sure I missed a few. Several, probably, for GVG. Keeping in mind that there are only ever 600 slots for cards TOTAL among the top-20 decks in the meta, and every new card has a larger set of cards it has to compete with, I'd say that Blizzard has done a pretty damn good job keeping the meta flowing. We didn't get a huge amount of cards with BRM, but we did get two completely new archetypes (Patron Warrior and Waker Mage). TGT is introducing an entirely new mechanic, and it's literally impossible to tell how that's going to shake the meta up. But to think for even a moment that there isn't going to be a solid dozen minimum meta-changing, deck-defining cards along the lines of the ones you see up there under GvG is sheer foolishness.
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Lol, this is what I love of forums.
People should just play and buy what they want... but no!, this is the internetz!!1
Give Taunt to hero's face.
- Every Hunter Card
People keep complaining cards are bad. I remember when people were complaining patron was bad. Haunted creeper was bad. etc etc. These cards will fall in line with the rest. You will complain... but guess what? In a month you are gonna be farming packs or using dust to make em. So just enjoy that we are going to be able to advance instead of them letting the game dry out.
Plus as usual they may senergize well with the rest of the set. We have not seen all the cards and some of them are pretty f'n amazing. From drake, to miracle hunter, priest and shaman cards. They will be seen in the meta and arena players should be stoked because honestly alot of these are great arena cards.
always like that... kids love to complain... in a few weeks all those willl be omg! this card is awesome!
people complained that Sludge Belcher was bad!! i remember seeing tons of posts
The new cards (so far) might be underwhelming to players with near full collections, but might be perfect fits to newer players. North Sea Kraken is not the best overall 9 drop, but it might be SOMEONES best 9 drop. Making HS more accessible is crucial to the longevity of the game, these new cards are Blizzards attempt to help that. Dont worry, Im sure the OP bombs are coming.
Everything has a purpose, even if the meta isn't made for it. You play Flame Lance as a way to get more removal in a mage deck then normally possible. Which will work if big minions are being played in high volume.
The main reason people see these cards as bad, is because they don't fit current meta.
On a plus side, Agrro hasn't been getting many tools to use either (Argent Horserider is more so meant for trading), so perhaps aggro gets a little shafted in the expansion, and control becomes more varied.
Give a man a Murloc, and he'll eat for a day.
Give him a Murloc Knight, and people will hate him.