Well I guess not really as 'tempo deck' is such a vague term. 'Tempo', 'Midrange' and Hybrid' are all terms that tend to get used almost interchangeably on a number of decks.
It tends to be used to describe decks that aren't really rush decks, but aren't true control decks either. Usually they try to play on curve, maintaining a favourable board position and trading favourably, but the details and win conditions vary so it is difficult to find a deck that beats all of them. Mass removal is often an enemy of tempo, because it can negate their hard-won board position in one swoop. But precisely what mass removal you need can vary. Is there any particular type of tempo deck you are struggling with?
tempo decks have cheap removal and cheap minions. They remove your minion or trade favorably then play another minion. Tempo decks usually establish board control first and vie to keep it.
-This includes Zoo, as zoo isn't primarily a "rush" deck. Soul fire > plays minion was the ultimate tempo play.
Its probably the best deck to play because it is good vs rush and can beat control, but suffers badly if it isn't balanced properly. IE Demonlock, still not balanced properly and really you can only use 3-4 demons the rest being neutrals.
Waker mage is probably the best tempo deck out there right now. Absolutely brutal.
ANYHOW: Anti-tempo isn't a thing. Tempo was meant to be flexible so either rush or control can beat it, it all comes down to luck, skill and a little bit of meta-knowledge.
Tempo decks imply that they get ahead on board early, the natural counter to that is early board wipes. So stuff like Frost Nova doomsayer, pyro equality, hellfire would be the natural "anti-tempo".
There is no such thing as a ''anti-tempo'' deck... but some decks works well at regaining tempo when it seems lost forever.
Let's take three Control decks.
Control Warrior has Brawl, Handlock has Shadowflame (don't talk to me about Twisting Nether, that's not near as impactful as Shadowflame) and Priest have Auchenai / Circle of healing, Lightbomb and Holy Nova.
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Used to be a proud Handlock player.
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Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
There is not. Removals in Hearthstone are not strong enough. You can only counter tempo with tempo. Look at Patron Warrior and you can see why they need 2 Armor Smiths in the deck.
I can understand this attitude in the salt thread. But for a serious thread like this: There is a serious difference between face decks and tempo decks:
Face Decks dont care about board state at all. They, as you rightfully said, vomit there hand on board go face and hope to kill the opponent before running out of steam. Examples for this are:
Face Hunter
Shockadin
Burst Rogue
Tempo Decks try to get ahead on Board and have to maintain this Board state to be able to win the game. If you get ahead on Board against a Tempo Deck you usually win if you are at enough health because, tempo decks only have limited resources of burst, e.g.:
Zoo/Demon Lock usually Doomguard and Power Overwhelming
Tempo Mage 2 Frostbolts 2 Fireballs
So if you are sitting at 20 health with a solid board advantage against either of the decks, you probably win.
Oh really? Thank you friend for analyzing what tempo is to a player who's playing for 2 years.
Still, if God fobids, you have no answer to "tempo" the first 3-4 turns, you're dead by the 6th-7th. I have survived countless face hunters past 8 turns.
Tempo and aggro are first cousins nowadays.
I remember back in the day the REAL tempo consisted of many low-mana removals and a nice and tidy board advancement so you have the upper hand. usually we would see a tempo rogue. that's what you're saying right??
Well, then zoo came out. And Naxx. And GvG. And BRM...
Anyways, this is my opinion of the true meaning of tempo which is based on countless games that even i have played all sorts of tempo decks.
zoo wasn't always a tempo deck. It was an aggro deck pre BRM. You can have aggro without it being face or tempo.
They ARE first cousins, but it's very important to tell the difference between them.
Face decks run out ammo, fast. You can literally stall them out then kill them when they go dry. They also ignore your board state because..well, they don't have the ammo to fight the board AND kill you. Thus stalling and healing tends to be the solution.
Aggro decks also burn out but need the board. The goal is to claim the board then tear you apart before you can recover. You don't stall them out because they don't run out of damage. To stop them, you slam their board regularly and stall for time. The trick is that aggro decks only have a lot of small minions (which is why they always have a good start) so they can't really handle the late game. Game gets too long, they just die. Thus while face decks have a damage limit, aggro is on the clock.
Tempo is like aggro with one catch: they don't have a time limit or a damage limit. They CAN kill you early with a great start. However, if you've stalled and held them back, all that means is that their mana wyrms and Shredders will be replaced with Booms and Rags. Late game? Archmage and endless fireballs. They pressure you the entire game, and early, mid, or late, the SECOND you show weakness you die. The issue is that they MUST have Tempo all game. They can trade, and will do so willingly and often (2 fireballs to kill 2 minions? no problem!) so long as they can keep the presure up. The SECOND the lose Tempo.. the second they have to defend, they lose. They have almost nothing for Tempo recovery tools and can't afford to use card advantage to regain it either.
All of these decks can kill you early on. How, and if they MUST do so depends on the deck. how you stop them depends on the deck. Thus why they are named differently.
From what I know, a tempo deck is a deck that tries to get more cards on the board than is (normally) possible with the amount of mana you have that turn. However, they aren't necessarily creating more value out of each card. So for example:
Mad Scientist and Kirin Tor Mage are tempo cards since they essentially get you a secret out for 0 mana instead of 1/2/3 mana.
Shaman overload cards kinda fit here too, since they let you play stronger cards in one turn by sacrificing mana in another (like Lightning Bolt for 1 mana instead of the usual 2-mana 3-dmg).
In my opinion, that's the line there. Some might argue that Flamewaker or Knife Juggler might be tempo cards since they can get you more value with playing spells/minions, but IMO that's kinda in combo territory (while I would call Force of Nature + Savage Roar or Freeze Mage a mega-combo to distinguish the two).
That said, I don't think there's a specific anti-tempo deck. Just like how some control decks are built around aggro, other control decks take too long to set up and fall to aggro (and is more suited against say midrange or other control decks). The main weakness of pure tempo decks is that they aren't getting more value with the cards they play, so your goal is to outvalue them. This is tricky when you face Flamewaker Mage, since it gets value from playing spells. You can look at https://tempostorm.com/articles/meta-snapshot-19-from-warrior-to-warrior-and-back-again to see what decks counter the decks you face.
Lightbomb Priest (Chinese Priest) is classified by Liquid Hearth as anti-tempo deck. But pretty much the only competitive tempo deck is tempo mage. So if you are generally referring to anti-aggressive decks then play freeze mage, control warrior, handlock, or patron warrior.
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Shaman overload cards kinda fit here too, since they let you play stronger cards in one turn by sacrificing mana in another (like Lightning Bolt for 1 mana instead of the usual 2-mana 3-dmg).
Nope, they aren't. Overload mechanics is generally a tempo gain one turn with huge tempo loss on another, so they doesn't fit "tempo" archetype.
Tempo is gain early board control, gain value from early board control with no big cards to follow. Playing cheap, but effective cards. Playing annoyotrones or mirror entity, while he have one big minion etc. It's a race against late game board control, so it might feel like face deck, but it isn't.
Speaking of which, there aren't too many late game control decks in HS. Most of late game cards is threats, but they don't protect you from already established board. So to play control successfully, you need to control via spells, and you may not have the right answers when you need them. And even after a board clear, your opponent is first to play minions (or just have deathrattles).
So returning to the point of the thread: anti-tempo. I guess things that allows you to disrupt early tempo board control attempt (or completely control it) and that are fast enough on their own to do so, should be considered anti-tempo plays. Zombie Chow, 3/2 axe, Power Word: Shield, early 3 damage removals, Keeper of the Grove and so on. If tempo don't get control over the board - it will never make value out of it. If you slow down his control - you might stall the game until you have ways to deal with it (by controlling or dropping huge threats).
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Well I guess not really as 'tempo deck' is such a vague term. 'Tempo', 'Midrange' and Hybrid' are all terms that tend to get used almost interchangeably on a number of decks.
It tends to be used to describe decks that aren't really rush decks, but aren't true control decks either. Usually they try to play on curve, maintaining a favourable board position and trading favourably, but the details and win conditions vary so it is difficult to find a deck that beats all of them. Mass removal is often an enemy of tempo, because it can negate their hard-won board position in one swoop. But precisely what mass removal you need can vary. Is there any particular type of tempo deck you are struggling with?
The only cancer in Hearthstone is its community.
freeze mage and all control decks do quite well. you need some strong AOE though
tempo decks have cheap removal and cheap minions. They remove your minion or trade favorably then play another minion. Tempo decks usually establish board control first and vie to keep it.
-This includes Zoo, as zoo isn't primarily a "rush" deck. Soul fire > plays minion was the ultimate tempo play.
Its probably the best deck to play because it is good vs rush and can beat control, but suffers badly if it isn't balanced properly. IE Demonlock, still not balanced properly and really you can only use 3-4 demons the rest being neutrals.
Waker mage is probably the best tempo deck out there right now. Absolutely brutal.
ANYHOW: Anti-tempo isn't a thing. Tempo was meant to be flexible so either rush or control can beat it, it all comes down to luck, skill and a little bit of meta-knowledge.
Tempo decks imply that they get ahead on board early, the natural counter to that is early board wipes. So stuff like Frost Nova doomsayer, pyro equality, hellfire would be the natural "anti-tempo".
Yeah, it's called control
Normally Control Warrior is very strong against such decks. Also the "classic" Priest with early mass removal is nice.
You can make every deck stronger against aggro by putting in one or two Zombie Chow.
freezing trap & other shenanigans.
Yep.
There is no such thing as a ''anti-tempo'' deck... but some decks works well at regaining tempo when it seems lost forever.
Let's take three Control decks.
Control Warrior has Brawl, Handlock has Shadowflame (don't talk to me about Twisting Nether, that's not near as impactful as Shadowflame) and Priest have Auchenai / Circle of healing, Lightbomb and Holy Nova.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Shaman's overload mechanic.
There is not. Removals in Hearthstone are not strong enough. You can only counter tempo with tempo. Look at Patron Warrior and you can see why they need 2 Armor Smiths in the deck.
zoo wasn't always a tempo deck. It was an aggro deck pre BRM. You can have aggro without it being face or tempo.
They ARE first cousins, but it's very important to tell the difference between them.
Face decks run out ammo, fast. You can literally stall them out then kill them when they go dry. They also ignore your board state because..well, they don't have the ammo to fight the board AND kill you. Thus stalling and healing tends to be the solution.
Aggro decks also burn out but need the board. The goal is to claim the board then tear you apart before you can recover. You don't stall them out because they don't run out of damage. To stop them, you slam their board regularly and stall for time. The trick is that aggro decks only have a lot of small minions (which is why they always have a good start) so they can't really handle the late game. Game gets too long, they just die. Thus while face decks have a damage limit, aggro is on the clock.
Tempo is like aggro with one catch: they don't have a time limit or a damage limit. They CAN kill you early with a great start. However, if you've stalled and held them back, all that means is that their mana wyrms and Shredders will be replaced with Booms and Rags. Late game? Archmage and endless fireballs. They pressure you the entire game, and early, mid, or late, the SECOND you show weakness you die. The issue is that they MUST have Tempo all game. They can trade, and will do so willingly and often (2 fireballs to kill 2 minions? no problem!) so long as they can keep the presure up. The SECOND the lose Tempo.. the second they have to defend, they lose. They have almost nothing for Tempo recovery tools and can't afford to use card advantage to regain it either.
All of these decks can kill you early on. How, and if they MUST do so depends on the deck. how you stop them depends on the deck. Thus why they are named differently.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
From what I know, a tempo deck is a deck that tries to get more cards on the board than is (normally) possible with the amount of mana you have that turn. However, they aren't necessarily creating more value out of each card. So for example:
Mad Scientist and Kirin Tor Mage are tempo cards since they essentially get you a secret out for 0 mana instead of 1/2/3 mana.
Sorcerer's Apprentice and Mechwarper are tempo cards since they reduce cost of minions/spells by one mana.
Shaman overload cards kinda fit here too, since they let you play stronger cards in one turn by sacrificing mana in another (like Lightning Bolt for 1 mana instead of the usual 2-mana 3-dmg).
In my opinion, that's the line there. Some might argue that Flamewaker or Knife Juggler might be tempo cards since they can get you more value with playing spells/minions, but IMO that's kinda in combo territory (while I would call Force of Nature + Savage Roar or Freeze Mage a mega-combo to distinguish the two).
That said, I don't think there's a specific anti-tempo deck. Just like how some control decks are built around aggro, other control decks take too long to set up and fall to aggro (and is more suited against say midrange or other control decks). The main weakness of pure tempo decks is that they aren't getting more value with the cards they play, so your goal is to outvalue them. This is tricky when you face Flamewaker Mage, since it gets value from playing spells. You can look at https://tempostorm.com/articles/meta-snapshot-19-from-warrior-to-warrior-and-back-again to see what decks counter the decks you face.
Chugga chugga chugga chugga
Lightbomb Priest (Chinese Priest) is classified by Liquid Hearth as anti-tempo deck. But pretty much the only competitive tempo deck is tempo mage. So if you are generally referring to anti-aggressive decks then play freeze mage, control warrior, handlock, or patron warrior.
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Nope, they aren't. Overload mechanics is generally a tempo gain one turn with huge tempo loss on another, so they doesn't fit "tempo" archetype.
Tempo is gain early board control, gain value from early board control with no big cards to follow. Playing cheap, but effective cards. Playing annoyotrones or mirror entity, while he have one big minion etc. It's a race against late game board control, so it might feel like face deck, but it isn't.
Speaking of which, there aren't too many late game control decks in HS. Most of late game cards is threats, but they don't protect you from already established board. So to play control successfully, you need to control via spells, and you may not have the right answers when you need them. And even after a board clear, your opponent is first to play minions (or just have deathrattles).
So returning to the point of the thread: anti-tempo. I guess things that allows you to disrupt early tempo board control attempt (or completely control it) and that are fast enough on their own to do so, should be considered anti-tempo plays. Zombie Chow, 3/2 axe, Power Word: Shield, early 3 damage removals, Keeper of the Grove and so on. If tempo don't get control over the board - it will never make value out of it. If you slow down his control - you might stall the game until you have ways to deal with it (by controlling or dropping huge threats).
Edit: my Inner fire combo/control deck feels like anti-tempo. It crushes enemy early board control with ease, and don't even have Auchenai Soulpriest+Circle of Healing to AoE if something goes wrong.