Here's a hypothetical situation: I'm a mage against a paladin on turn 3. He coins into a Yeti (4/5). I don't have any good answers immediately so I frost bolt it for 3 damage and ping it for 1 more to bring it down to 4/1 planning to ping it again next turn. My opponent then plays Blessing of kings on it making it a 8/5. On my turn, I play an ironbeak owl to silence the buff and continue with my plan to ping it off, but lo and behold, it's now a 4/5 again! Why does this happen? Is this a design decision to make buffs double as healing spells when cast on damaged creatures? It doesn't seem right.
Similarly, if someone plays blessing of kings on a 1/1 soldier and kills my Taz-dingo, bringing the soldier down to a 5/2, if I silence the soldier, he doesn't get killed off, he becomes a 1/1 again!
I think this is how it SHOULD work, with the way it is WORDED.
You play a minion and it "heals" 2 to all minions or heals for 3 then the ATK is 4of(4) HEALTH 1of(5) would then be ATK 4of(4) and Health 4of(5) so a debuff would do nothing.
Now these BUFF cards should do this in that case ATK 8of(4+(4)) and Health 4of(5+(3)) so when you REMOVE the buff it would be ATK 8-(4)of(4) and HEALTH 4-(3)of(5) Effectivly debuffing the +stats it gave it TEMPORARILY. The "buff" feature should be looked at like a "shield" or "layer" on the character while a HEAL is permanent, just like you can't "heal" a minion higher than its max health, a BUFF shouldn't persist beyond its buffed state.
So if the minion was 8 buffed up from 4 and Health was 4 buffed up from 1 stats SHOULD return back, now if you HIT the minion with BUFFs you are effectively attacking the BUFFED health and not the 1 health that the minion had left, so you couldn't DEBUFF a minion into death.
Yeah, I get what you are saying about when I attack into a 5/5 soldier that has blessing of kings, that I am damaging the blessing of kings part of that minion's health, so when I silence it, it returns to having 1 health rather than dieing.
Am I correct that you are agreeing with me that my first scenario is wrongly implemented and the yeti should return to being a 4/1 after the silence?
Yeah, I get what you are saying about when I attack into a 5/5 soldier that has blessing of kings, that I am damaging the blessing of kings part of that minion's health, so when I silence it, it returns to having 1 health rather than dieing.
Am I correct that you are agreeing with me that my first scenario is wrongly implemented and the yeti should return to being a 4/1 after the silence?
I am agreeing with you. The Buffs should be put on the minions as a blanket or layer or "shield" per se that have these stats over the CURRENT STATE OF THE MINION, so when you silence the BUFF you are effectively just removing that blanket/layer, resulting in the minion back to its state.
So if the minion was a 4/4 in the current state and you buffed it +4/+4 then you remove the buff minions back to a 4/4. However if the minion was a 4/4 and you attacked it to a 4/1 and you buffed the 4/1 with a +4/+4 the minion should be "seen" as 4/1 with (+4/+4) on top of it Net 8/5. so if you hit it for 2 damage it would be 4/1 + (4/2) resulting in a net of 8/3 and if you silence it, would then be a 4/1 as you just removed the (4/2). If this above and beyond its original stats is true, than turning someones attack to 1 and then removing it with silence should effectively leave the attack at 1, but it doesn't and gets reverted back to its original attack value or the state in which the minion was in before the silence and before the debuff.
It's because they remember current health instead of current damage
+ of course max health
When a 4/1 is buffed to a 8/5 and then silenced, why doesn't the code just say "remove the +4/+4". I don't see how it could end as a 4/5 instead of a 4/1.
Eh. It makes buffing health stat interesting. Minions die easily in this game already and buffing usually causes negative card advantage - getting a bonus such as healing seems like an attempt at a compromise to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
I agree that it should remove the 4 health. However, I also agree that if you do some amount of damage to the minion before silencing it that the damage you do should be to the buffed health not to the original health. Meaning it shouldn't then kill the minion when you silence it.
because: it does NOT remember damage! It only remembers "CURRENT Health" and "MAX Health"
Somehow I doubt you're actually a Hearthstone developer. So, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're making this up. Either way it knows what buffs are on a minion and it knows their base stats. Everything else can be calculated from that.
Here's a hypothetical situation: I'm a mage against a paladin on turn 3. He coins into a Yeti (4/5). I don't have any good answers immediately so I frost bolt it for 3 damage and ping it for 1 more to bring it down to 4/1 planning to ping it again next turn. My opponent then plays Blessing of kings on it making it a 8/5. On my turn, I play an ironbeak owl to silence the buff and continue with my plan to ping it off, but lo and behold, it's now a 4/5 again! Why does this happen? Is this a design decision to make buffs double as healing spells when cast on damaged creatures? It doesn't seem right.
Similarly, if someone plays blessing of kings on a 1/1 soldier and kills my Taz-dingo, bringing the soldier down to a 5/2, if I silence the soldier, he doesn't get killed off, he becomes a 1/1 again!
I think this is how it SHOULD work, with the way it is WORDED.
You play a minion and it "heals" 2 to all minions or heals for 3 then the ATK is 4of(4) HEALTH 1of(5) would then be ATK 4of(4) and Health 4of(5) so a debuff would do nothing.
Now these BUFF cards should do this in that case ATK 8of(4+(4)) and Health 4of(5+(3)) so when you REMOVE the buff it would be ATK 8-(4)of(4) and HEALTH 4-(3)of(5) Effectivly debuffing the +stats it gave it TEMPORARILY. The "buff" feature should be looked at like a "shield" or "layer" on the character while a HEAL is permanent, just like you can't "heal" a minion higher than its max health, a BUFF shouldn't persist beyond its buffed state.
So if the minion was 8 buffed up from 4 and Health was 4 buffed up from 1 stats SHOULD return back, now if you HIT the minion with BUFFs you are effectively attacking the BUFFED health and not the 1 health that the minion had left, so you couldn't DEBUFF a minion into death.
Yeah, I get what you are saying about when I attack into a 5/5 soldier that has blessing of kings, that I am damaging the blessing of kings part of that minion's health, so when I silence it, it returns to having 1 health rather than dieing.
Am I correct that you are agreeing with me that my first scenario is wrongly implemented and the yeti should return to being a 4/1 after the silence?
I am agreeing with you. The Buffs should be put on the minions as a blanket or layer or "shield" per se that have these stats over the CURRENT STATE OF THE MINION, so when you silence the BUFF you are effectively just removing that blanket/layer, resulting in the minion back to its state.
So if the minion was a 4/4 in the current state and you buffed it +4/+4 then you remove the buff minions back to a 4/4. However if the minion was a 4/4 and you attacked it to a 4/1 and you buffed the 4/1 with a +4/+4 the minion should be "seen" as 4/1 with (+4/+4) on top of it Net 8/5. so if you hit it for 2 damage it would be 4/1 + (4/2) resulting in a net of 8/3 and if you silence it, would then be a 4/1 as you just removed the (4/2). If this above and beyond its original stats is true, than turning someones attack to 1 and then removing it with silence should effectively leave the attack at 1, but it doesn't and gets reverted back to its original attack value or the state in which the minion was in before the silence and before the debuff.
That isn't a bad idea either. Either way, the wording, the mechanics, or something needs to be changed and implemented regarding this situation.
When a 4/1 is buffed to a 8/5 and then silenced, why doesn't the code just say "remove the +4/+4". I don't see how it could end as a 4/5 instead of a 4/1.
Eh. It makes buffing health stat interesting. Minions die easily in this game already and buffing usually causes negative card advantage - getting a bonus such as healing seems like an attempt at a compromise to me.
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
I agree that it should remove the 4 health. However, I also agree that if you do some amount of damage to the minion before silencing it that the damage you do should be to the buffed health not to the original health. Meaning it shouldn't then kill the minion when you silence it.
Somehow I doubt you're actually a Hearthstone developer. So, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're making this up. Either way it knows what buffs are on a minion and it knows their base stats. Everything else can be calculated from that.