ok title can be click bait but the question is honest:
if blizzard will ever print a card like this, would you ever craft it and include in your deck?
Because on level 5 to legend I am seeing lot of paladin/shaman murlocs and lot of zephyr included decks.
I don't see the comparison between what is obviously a literal "I play this and win" card and cards which have little to nothing in common with that and require much more forethought, planning and luck, such as Zephrys and Murloc decks, etc.
You're right. The thread IS extremely clickbaity, however. But I can ignore that (having made some super-clickbaity titles in my time).
That said, if Blizzard ever printed a card like that (as completely unlikely as that is), then of course everyone would craft it, because it would force games into a case of either: "Play this card and win", or "Don't play this card and lose", and regardless of anyone's protestations of moral self-righteousness and the like, people like to win. It's a better feeling than losing. So they would play this card and win (or curse the luck of the opponent for drawing theirs first if not).
I'm not sure where the discussion really is in this thread, to be honest. I feel like there is a semi-intentional sarcasm directed towards playing cards like Zephrys or that Paladin murloc card, but it doesn't really work, because there is no comparison there - and it kind of comes of as more saltiness than satire, I'm afraid.
It’s sad that “everyone would craft it” in order to win. Then the game is ruined.
ok title can be click bait but the question is honest:
if blizzard will ever print a card like this, would you ever craft it and include in your deck?
Because on level 5 to legend I am seeing lot of paladin/shaman murlocs and lot of zephyr included decks.
I don't see the comparison between what is obviously a literal "I play this and win" card and cards which have little to nothing in common with that and require much more forethought, planning and luck, such as Zephrys and Murloc decks, etc.
You're right. The thread IS extremely clickbaity, however. But I can ignore that (having made some super-clickbaity titles in my time).
That said, if Blizzard ever printed a card like that (as completely unlikely as that is), then of course everyone would craft it, because it would force games into a case of either: "Play this card and win", or "Don't play this card and lose", and regardless of anyone's protestations of moral self-righteousness and the like, people like to win. It's a better feeling than losing. So they would play this card and win (or curse the luck of the opponent for drawing theirs first if not).
I'm not sure where the discussion really is in this thread, to be honest. I feel like there is a semi-intentional sarcasm directed towards playing cards like Zephrys or that Paladin murloc card, but it doesn't really work, because there is no comparison there - and it kind of comes of as more saltiness than satire, I'm afraid.
It’s sad that “everyone would craft it” in order to win. Then the game is ruined.
Sad or not, it's human nature. People want to win - why do you think netdecking is so common? Players want a deck that will win for them. Sure, they may sometimes look for decks that are fun or different, but that's something different. Anyone who says they wouldn't craft it is either lying to themselves or lying to everyone else. And no, the game isn't ruined because people would craft it - otherwise netdecking would ruin the game right now (there are some who actually do think this is already the case, weirdly). The game would be ruined if this card were a real thing - but that's because of the card, not because people choose to craft it.
A game decided by 1 or 2 turns of missplays or answers. If u have already 2 turns of answer past midgame against a deck close to victory against u, zephrys can also give u a extra answer and regain the game for once. We have a lot of answer cards, discovery mechanics and Removal spells for all classes now that make zephrys like a real savior of any match late game. it's stupid design and it's making me and other players really sick and sad to even log in to the game. I barely play a game a day, each match almost make me puke, specially when this card or stupid murloc decks are involved. I feel like i'm going to break something, kill myself or find the developers adresses to give them punition for their acts.
Ok, maybe i express very bad my intention that are truly focuse on the game design.
Let's say this case: If a guy that play his first match ever, after explaining him a little how the game works, and play a net deck murloc paladin and play against another experienced player in legend.
i believe with the right mulligan he will win. And lose with the wrong cards, due of inexperience
This what i mean for coinflip deck. And this what maybe blizzard have in mind. If people join the game and lose they get bored and quit before building their card collection.
if they join and can have a 'easier" way to get wins for beginners (based on drawing card and win) they will stay and spend money.
This is good for them but bad for the game design that will be more and more like gambling than playing.
That's the why for this thread card. Keep going in this direction this is what we could end up.
Last thing about Zephyr. Maybe bring back highlander decks was the intent. Well Zephyr is used more in the cheating draw decks than highlanders (you can also check the "grandmaster" decks, or chek your own decks, be honest) and most of the time just used as lifesaver or OTK, not part of a real strategy.
Let's say this case: If a guy that play his first match ever, after explaining him a little how the game works, and play a net deck murloc paladin and play against another experienced player in legend.
i believe with the right mulligan he will win. And lose with the wrong cards, due of inexperience
I believe your analogy here is a little flawed for two reasons:
1. A new player perhaps doesn't play as you might think they would. For example, when I let me young daughter start playing Hearthstone, I watched how she played. She would play whatever was in her hand, regardless of what it did, and she would almost never trade (unless there was a taunt in the way) because she didn't understand the value of trading, or the threat of minions, etc. And that's the very base level of player. Playing a deck like Paladin Murloc, they would almost never win without the sheerest of luck on their side, or unless they were playing someone of an equal experience level who was just as bad. If you want to prove otherwise, what you would need to do is program a bot that would play in a certain way each time, specifically playing a tempo game, and then catalogue the likelihood of it winning. I think you would find it doesnt win as often as you think.
2. God Drawing. You said that with the right mulligan he would win. But that is true for any deck. And assuming the other player had a bad mulligan. And assuming that the player drew the right cards. And assuming that the RnG didn't screw him over at all. And assuming that both Tip the Scales weren't drawn early, and assuming that both Prisms weren't on the bottom of the deck. And assuming that you had the right cards on curve. And assuming you had the answers to what the other player was doing. And assuming that you made the right trades at the right time.
As you can see, there are a bounty of decisions that need making and luck rolls that need winning, even with a deck that is as single-tracked as Murloc Paladin. A brand new player piloting this deck without any kind of guidance would barely win 25% of their matches, if that.
I fckn hate zephyrs... no way can a aggro deck with duplicates get so lucky have a small board and blood lust me turn 7 and win the game. You are a pally! You arent supposed to have a bloodlust. That card literally shits down any chance of you coming back to win the game... so dumb.
i think we are saying the same thing but with different point of views. i am saying they win you are saying they lose.
But this is just the coinflip situation.
The original question is: What s the point playing this deck or deck like it was pirate warrior, secret paladin and all deck like that, if all you do is just waiting for right statistical combination.
but yeah i think the answer (as said) is the mere joy of winning. same using bots or cheating or doping in every other game or sport. Just awkward in this case since, as long you don't want to become HS pro gamer, there are not much pros in doing that. IMHO
i think we are saying the same thing but with different point of views. i am saying they win you are saying they lose.
But this is just the coinflip situation.
The original question is: What s the point playing this deck or deck like it was pirate warrior, secret paladin and all deck like that, if all you do is just waiting for right statistical combination.
I think the point I was trying to make was that, for a new player, even with the right RnG going his way, he is still likely to lose.
Separately, the point of playing this (or any) deck is to win the game - some might say it's to have fun, but fun is what keeps you playing and losing rarely promotes that feeling - that is at least the goal in terms of the design of the game itself. In any card game there are decks that require gathering the right cards or combination of cards to achieve that victory. That's standard fair for this type of game and not something that should be overly worried about. The "point" of playing this deck is winning the game, but the fun comes from the "method" of doing so. In this instance, it is using your deck-crafting ability to build a deck that supports the win condition successfully, and then using your skills and experience to run the deck in a game setting and know how to play it properly.
And this is where it ties into the idea of any old Joe (new player or not) trying to run a deck like this. They simply wouldn't be able to play it and "hope for RnG to let them win". Because it comes back to the old cliche - every deck requires some skill in one form or another to be successful with.
A blind man can swing a hammer around and eventually might hit a nail occasionally, but a man who can see will be a lot more consistent. :-)
ok title can be click bait but the question is honest:
if blizzard will ever print a card like this, would you ever craft it and include in your deck?
Because on level 5 to legend I am seeing lot of paladin/shaman murlocs and lot of zephyr included decks.
Facing them make me feelings they have the same spirit of a deck With this "Angel of Victory"
No skills at all, no strategy. Just counting the mana playing the card that fit, and see if win or not.
I know everybody is different and everybody is playing for different goals. it's clear that the goal here is not getting satisfied by a skillful win.
But even if the goal is just reach legend? is it worth with such a deck or such a card in the title? isn't it just playing coin flip? it really satisfy you? I mean there are not money involved. Just dust, that you spend to make this kind of decks. Really, honest question, can somebody who plays this deck try to explain me why?
I tried , i got bored. Maybe i missed something.
I feel you bro, i love deep control decks, i have more the 2000 victories with priest but i had times where i enjoyed dumb aggro too.
I think that playng dumb aggro is like having sex in public, you do it with the fear of getting cought, then you actually enjoy the adrenaline of the fear itself.
Playng aggro is the same, you hope that opponent doesn't have the answer to save his own ass, and you play with this 'fear' in yourself. And when you win you feel the adrenaline of it.
It’s sad that “everyone would craft it” in order to win. Then the game is ruined.
Sad or not, it's human nature. People want to win - why do you think netdecking is so common? Players want a deck that will win for them.
Sure, they may sometimes look for decks that are fun or different, but that's something different.
Anyone who says they wouldn't craft it is either lying to themselves or lying to everyone else.
And no, the game isn't ruined because people would craft it - otherwise netdecking would ruin the game right now (there are some who actually do think this is already the case, weirdly).
The game would be ruined if this card were a real thing - but that's because of the card, not because people choose to craft it.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Ok, maybe i express very bad my intention that are truly focuse on the game design.
Let's say this case: If a guy that play his first match ever, after explaining him a little how the game works, and play a net deck murloc paladin and play against another experienced player in legend.
i believe with the right mulligan he will win. And lose with the wrong cards, due of inexperience
This what i mean for coinflip deck. And this what maybe blizzard have in mind. If people join the game and lose they get bored and quit before building their card collection.
if they join and can have a 'easier" way to get wins for beginners (based on drawing card and win) they will stay and spend money.
This is good for them but bad for the game design that will be more and more like gambling than playing.
That's the why for this thread card. Keep going in this direction this is what we could end up.
Last thing about Zephyr. Maybe bring back highlander decks was the intent. Well Zephyr is used more in the cheating draw decks than highlanders (you can also check the "grandmaster" decks, or chek your own decks, be honest) and most of the time just used as lifesaver or OTK, not part of a real strategy.
I believe your analogy here is a little flawed for two reasons:
1. A new player perhaps doesn't play as you might think they would. For example, when I let me young daughter start playing Hearthstone, I watched how she played. She would play whatever was in her hand, regardless of what it did, and she would almost never trade (unless there was a taunt in the way) because she didn't understand the value of trading, or the threat of minions, etc. And that's the very base level of player. Playing a deck like Paladin Murloc, they would almost never win without the sheerest of luck on their side, or unless they were playing someone of an equal experience level who was just as bad.
If you want to prove otherwise, what you would need to do is program a bot that would play in a certain way each time, specifically playing a tempo game, and then catalogue the likelihood of it winning. I think you would find it doesnt win as often as you think.
2. God Drawing. You said that with the right mulligan he would win. But that is true for any deck. And assuming the other player had a bad mulligan. And assuming that the player drew the right cards. And assuming that the RnG didn't screw him over at all. And assuming that both Tip the Scales weren't drawn early, and assuming that both Prisms weren't on the bottom of the deck. And assuming that you had the right cards on curve. And assuming you had the answers to what the other player was doing. And assuming that you made the right trades at the right time.
As you can see, there are a bounty of decisions that need making and luck rolls that need winning, even with a deck that is as single-tracked as Murloc Paladin.
A brand new player piloting this deck without any kind of guidance would barely win 25% of their matches, if that.
I fckn hate zephyrs... no way can a aggro deck with duplicates get so lucky have a small board and blood lust me turn 7 and win the game. You are a pally! You arent supposed to have a bloodlust. That card literally shits down any chance of you coming back to win the game... so dumb.
i think we are saying the same thing but with different point of views. i am saying they win you are saying they lose.
But this is just the coinflip situation.
The original question is: What s the point playing this deck or deck like it was pirate warrior, secret paladin and all deck like that, if all you do is just waiting for right statistical combination.
but yeah i think the answer (as said) is the mere joy of winning. same using bots or cheating or doping in every other game or sport. Just awkward in this case since, as long you don't want to become HS pro gamer, there are not much pros in doing that. IMHO
I think the point I was trying to make was that, for a new player, even with the right RnG going his way, he is still likely to lose.
Separately, the point of playing this (or any) deck is to win the game - some might say it's to have fun, but fun is what keeps you playing and losing rarely promotes that feeling - that is at least the goal in terms of the design of the game itself. In any card game there are decks that require gathering the right cards or combination of cards to achieve that victory. That's standard fair for this type of game and not something that should be overly worried about.
The "point" of playing this deck is winning the game, but the fun comes from the "method" of doing so. In this instance, it is using your deck-crafting ability to build a deck that supports the win condition successfully, and then using your skills and experience to run the deck in a game setting and know how to play it properly.
And this is where it ties into the idea of any old Joe (new player or not) trying to run a deck like this. They simply wouldn't be able to play it and "hope for RnG to let them win". Because it comes back to the old cliche - every deck requires some skill in one form or another to be successful with.
A blind man can swing a hammer around and eventually might hit a nail occasionally, but a man who can see will be a lot more consistent. :-)
dude, you spelled Zephrys wrong and it only costs 2 mana.
Any deck that you play with is a deep, well developed, and laser focused deck that requires skill and finesse to play.
Any deck your opponent plays is a no-skill, broken, clown party that a toddler could pilot to victory.
If you win, it was due to both your play skill and your deck building prowess.
If you lose, then it was due to good luck and cheese on your opponent's part. And terrible luck for you.
I feel you bro, i love deep control decks, i have more the 2000 victories with priest but i had times where i enjoyed dumb aggro too.
I think that playng dumb aggro is like having sex in public, you do it with the fear of getting cought, then you actually enjoy the adrenaline of the fear itself.
Playng aggro is the same, you hope that opponent doesn't have the answer to save his own ass, and you play with this 'fear' in yourself. And when you win you feel the adrenaline of it.
PRIEST
Seems good with Shudderwock if ever printed