T1 Cleric into T2 2x PW:Shield is still pretty back breaking for most decks, extra arms not needed (thank god radiant elemental rotated). Cleric is still hands down the most oppressive 1 drop in the game, single-handedly changing entire deck strategies.
Strongest class for two weeks for the first time since the rotation. Yeah, priest definetely deserved this nerf /s
A class is not a person and does not "deserve" anything.
The people playing one class do not deserve a better experience than those playing other classes.
We all deserve a reasonably balanced experience in the present, regardless of anything that happened in the past.
Sorry, but it's bullshit. What's with all the priest-players who get owned the WHOLE ROTATION who NEVER HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE AT ALL? And sorry, but every fricking class is sometimes OP. Warriors were it the whole crappy rotation long. But when priest has ONE TIME a tier 1-deck: NERF.
Reno-Priest is strong one time after KaC: NERFED. Mind Blast allows Priest to be competitive: HOF. Now Extra Arms shows that Priest is finally somehow viable and one time a good class: NERFED.
And Warrior was able to rampage the whole rotation long: WHO CARES. That's not balancing, thats bullshit.
Oh make no mistake, as a person who has played since the beta, it's been interesting to watch the many time bombs of the classic set be defused . . . except for 3.
I looked through the set for funsies, and it looks like they've actually come pretty close to getting rid of all the design-restricting shit. Warsong Commander was annihilated. Druid's ramp is hampered. Mage's freeze damage is handled. Rogue's burst and conceal is . . . somewhat handled. Except for those pesky 3.
And by "those pesky 3", I of course mean Mountain Giant, Malygos, and DS/IF. And no, I don't think Leeroy should be on the list, but that's another discussion.
Malygos hasn't reared his head in a bit, so it's easy to remember the stranglehold he continues to have on rogue and druid design.
I'm racking my brain for a year when Mountain Giant wasn't in tier 1 at some point during the meta, and not coming up with it.
But DS/IF is particularly poisonous, since it's the last of the classic time bombs that is class-based. This discussion changes immediately if that ever changes, but for some reason, they continue to dance around the inevitable HoF move.
Can anyone tell me what about DS/IF is so design restricting? Genuine question.
From my recollection, Blizz has printed a ton of cheap, high health minions and almost always they aren't used. With the exception of the 3 mana 4/8 can't attack - which I don't count as design restrictive because it was designed FOR DS/IF priests, not around it.
Priest is a horrible class it's actually just a flawed design and really horrible if u think they deserve some love go to wild and play a few u'll learn to hate them as much as me or go to arena they just have every answer every turn every time
Priest is just a horribly designed class it relies on horrible mechanics and really silly things their hero power is terrible early game but scales insanely late game... it's hard to balance this class but no i don't want to play priest stone it's just a poorly designed class
many of their mechanics relies on basically 1 thing do they have THE CARD that is situational but perfect for this situation if they do they blow u out of the water this sort of horrible design is horrible. it doesn't matter what you have what you do how u do it as the other player it's basically not fun or interactive. SURE you can detempo to play around some of their board clears and if not get punished but they are definition of NOT FUN POORLY DESIGNED HORRIBLE class not fixed properly since BETA
I agree with the OP. They nerfed the wrong card. And as has been said many times before; Priest needs better expansion cards since their base cards are so weak. And let's not even mention (again) what happened to Mind Blast.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
Strongest class for two weeks for the first time since the rotation. Yeah, priest definetely deserved this nerf /s
A class is not a person and does not "deserve" anything.
The people playing one class do not deserve a better experience than those playing other classes.
We all deserve a reasonably balanced experience in the present, regardless of anything that happened in the past.
Sorry, but it's bullshit. What's with all the priest-players who get owned the WHOLE ROTATION who NEVER HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE AT ALL? And sorry, but every fricking class is sometimes OP. Warriors were it the whole crappy rotation long. But when priest has ONE TIME a tier 1-deck: NERF.
Reno-Priest is strong one time after KaC: NERFED. Mind Blast allows Priest to be competitive: HOF. Now Extra Arms shows that Priest is finally somehow viable and one time a good class: NERFED.
And Warrior was able to rampage the whole rotation long: WHO CARES. That's not balancing, thats bullshit.
It’s all about you, huh?
Other people also played archetypes that weren’t strong for years, and do you see them complaining all th time? Like FortyDust said we all want a balanced game, but he forgot people like you. You only care about yourself. You don’t want a balanced meta you want easy wins. You can’t wait for the next expansion were Priest usually gets better tier 1 material. You are twisting the truth, like Priests never had a tier 1 deck only this ONE TIME..... (yeah those Raza,Spiteful and Gallery types were so trash and interactive..) You don’t care about counterclasses getting nerfed. You just point at one class and say it’s been able to go rampage for so long ( even tho that’s not true, Warrior doesn’t have any spectacular winratio atm).
Look at Zetalot , i respect that guy, he loves the class if it’s good or bad, and even he said the nerfs weren’t enough. But ppl like you... shame on you.
Look at Zetalot , i respect that guy, he loves the class if it’s good or bad, and even he said the nerfs weren’t enough. But ppl like you... shame on you.
He said they nerfed the wrong card, nerfing Extra Arms won't solve the problem. DS/IF Priest will still be there and cause the same problems for which Extra Arms got nerfed. If they don't nerf DS/IF, they have keep nerfing other cards.
Oh make no mistake, as a person who has played since the beta, it's been interesting to watch the many time bombs of the classic set be defused . . . except for 3.
I looked through the set for funsies, and it looks like they've actually come pretty close to getting rid of all the design-restricting shit. Warsong Commander was annihilated. Druid's ramp is hampered. Mage's freeze damage is handled. Rogue's burst and conceal is . . . somewhat handled. Except for those pesky 3.
And by "those pesky 3", I of course mean Mountain Giant, Malygos, and DS/IF. And no, I don't think Leeroy should be on the list, but that's another discussion.
Malygos hasn't reared his head in a bit, so it's easy to remember the stranglehold he continues to have on rogue and druid design.
I'm racking my brain for a year when Mountain Giant wasn't in tier 1 at some point during the meta, and not coming up with it.
But DS/IF is particularly poisonous, since it's the last of the classic time bombs that is class-based. This discussion changes immediately if that ever changes, but for some reason, they continue to dance around the inevitable HoF move.
Can anyone tell me what about DS/IF is so design restricting? Genuine question.
From my recollection, Blizz has printed a ton of cheap, high health minions and almost always they aren't used. With the exception of the 3 mana 4/8 can't attack - which I don't count as design restrictive because it was designed FOR DS/IF priests, not around it.
In terms of design restriction, I think the current iteration of combo priest and two new cards specifically illustrate exactly why DS/IF is such a problem. Amet allows you to automatically set minions’ health to 7, which is DS/DS/IF away from 28 (36 with PW: S). If you don’t have taunts (which can be silenced) or a board clear handy, you’re potentially dead next turn (I.e. turn 6). Even if you manage to chip away at priest’s minions’ health, then Neferset Ritualist will bring them all the way back to the max, undoing your work and setting up their combo again.
Those cards shouldn’t have been printed in a world where DS is still in standard, at least not without a neutral mass silence option. You need to be able to clear priest’s minions every single turn after 5 in order to stave off death. Or you need to play aggro. All because of DS/IF.
Basically it means that Priest can't have a good tempo game. The devs have to actively sabotage, or at least aggressively ignore, priest's ability to fight the board game.
I honestly don't think the Extra Arms reversion would have been done without the DS/IF issue. The progression of the game where you have a 1/3 become a 3/5 and attack into a turn one play OR knock off the armor from the warrior's hero power, then potentially grow into a 5/7 and suddenly be immune to Reckless Mummy or attack yet again into a turn 2 play and be healed or PW:S'ed . . . that scenario is NOT insurmountable in and of itself (sometimes), but it drains the opponent of resources early enough that the lane will be open for the fatal attack much more consistently.
I don't know if you played much in late 2017, but the Druid deck which went Dire Mole > Mark of Y'shaarj > Crypt Lord just ended the game then and there against a lot of matchups. However, they let that interaction go because there were ways to address the buffed Mole, and there were defensive options in the later game (Void lord, Malfurion, Jaina, etc) such that early game damage couldn't always be capitalized upon. If druid had such a ridiculously consistent finisher as DS/IF, that deck would never have been tolerated. And Mark of Y'shaarj didn't have twinspell.
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A class is not a person and does not "deserve" anything.
The people playing one class do not deserve a better experience than those playing other classes.
We all deserve a reasonably balanced experience in the present, regardless of anything that happened in the past.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
T1 Cleric into T2 2x PW:Shield is still pretty back breaking for most decks, extra arms not needed (thank god radiant elemental rotated). Cleric is still hands down the most oppressive 1 drop in the game, single-handedly changing entire deck strategies.
Sorry, but it's bullshit. What's with all the priest-players who get owned the WHOLE ROTATION who NEVER HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE AT ALL? And sorry, but every fricking class is sometimes OP. Warriors were it the whole crappy rotation long. But when priest has ONE TIME a tier 1-deck: NERF.
Reno-Priest is strong one time after KaC: NERFED. Mind Blast allows Priest to be competitive: HOF. Now Extra Arms shows that Priest is finally somehow viable and one time a good class: NERFED.
And Warrior was able to rampage the whole rotation long: WHO CARES. That's not balancing, thats bullshit.
Yeah, cleric into extra arms was powerful. But not nearly as powerful as Divine Spirit + IF. Especially now with Neferset Rotualist.
Can anyone tell me what about DS/IF is so design restricting? Genuine question.
From my recollection, Blizz has printed a ton of cheap, high health minions and almost always they aren't used. With the exception of the 3 mana 4/8 can't attack - which I don't count as design restrictive because it was designed FOR DS/IF priests, not around it.
Priest is a horrible class it's actually just a flawed design and really horrible if u think they deserve some love go to wild and play a few u'll learn to hate them as much as me or go to arena they just have every answer every turn every time
Priest is just a horribly designed class it relies on horrible mechanics and really silly things their hero power is terrible early game but scales insanely late game... it's hard to balance this class but no i don't want to play priest stone it's just a poorly designed class
many of their mechanics relies on basically 1 thing do they have THE CARD that is situational but perfect for this situation if they do they blow u out of the water this sort of horrible design is horrible. it doesn't matter what you have what you do how u do it as the other player it's basically not fun or interactive. SURE you can detempo to play around some of their board clears and if not get punished but they are definition of NOT FUN POORLY DESIGNED HORRIBLE class not fixed properly since BETA
I agree with the OP. They nerfed the wrong card. And as has been said many times before; Priest needs better expansion cards since their base cards are so weak. And let's not even mention (again) what happened to Mind Blast.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
It’s all about you, huh?
Other people also played archetypes that weren’t strong for years, and do you see them complaining all th time? Like FortyDust said we all want a balanced game, but he forgot people like you. You only care about yourself. You don’t want a balanced meta you want easy wins. You can’t wait for the next expansion were Priest usually gets better tier 1 material. You are twisting the truth, like Priests never had a tier 1 deck only this ONE TIME..... (yeah those Raza,Spiteful and Gallery types were so trash and interactive..) You don’t care about counterclasses getting nerfed. You just point at one class and say it’s been able to go rampage for so long ( even tho that’s not true, Warrior doesn’t have any spectacular winratio atm).
Look at Zetalot , i respect that guy, he loves the class if it’s good or bad, and even he said the nerfs weren’t enough. But ppl like you... shame on you.
He said they nerfed the wrong card, nerfing Extra Arms won't solve the problem. DS/IF Priest will still be there and cause the same problems for which Extra Arms got nerfed. If they don't nerf DS/IF, they have keep nerfing other cards.
In terms of design restriction, I think the current iteration of combo priest and two new cards specifically illustrate exactly why DS/IF is such a problem. Amet allows you to automatically set minions’ health to 7, which is DS/DS/IF away from 28 (36 with PW: S). If you don’t have taunts (which can be silenced) or a board clear handy, you’re potentially dead next turn (I.e. turn 6). Even if you manage to chip away at priest’s minions’ health, then Neferset Ritualist will bring them all the way back to the max, undoing your work and setting up their combo again.
Those cards shouldn’t have been printed in a world where DS is still in standard, at least not without a neutral mass silence option. You need to be able to clear priest’s minions every single turn after 5 in order to stave off death. Or you need to play aggro. All because of DS/IF.
@spaceberries
Basically it means that Priest can't have a good tempo game. The devs have to actively sabotage, or at least aggressively ignore, priest's ability to fight the board game.
I honestly don't think the Extra Arms reversion would have been done without the DS/IF issue. The progression of the game where you have a 1/3 become a 3/5 and attack into a turn one play OR knock off the armor from the warrior's hero power, then potentially grow into a 5/7 and suddenly be immune to Reckless Mummy or attack yet again into a turn 2 play and be healed or PW:S'ed . . . that scenario is NOT insurmountable in and of itself (sometimes), but it drains the opponent of resources early enough that the lane will be open for the fatal attack much more consistently.
I don't know if you played much in late 2017, but the Druid deck which went Dire Mole > Mark of Y'shaarj > Crypt Lord just ended the game then and there against a lot of matchups. However, they let that interaction go because there were ways to address the buffed Mole, and there were defensive options in the later game (Void lord, Malfurion, Jaina, etc) such that early game damage couldn't always be capitalized upon. If druid had such a ridiculously consistent finisher as DS/IF, that deck would never have been tolerated. And Mark of Y'shaarj didn't have twinspell.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.