Facepalming at people suggesting HOFing Giant because of a card that will eventually rotate out.
Transforming the creature at the same modified cost sounds good at first... but also kills the deck. Why play Pocket Galaxy, play the Giants/Alex/etc and then summon a bunch of 1/1s? Or do nothing for 4 turns to hold MG and summon two 4/4s after passing the first 4 turns? You get so behind on Tempo you might as well just delete the whole deck.
Though I agree that in Arena Conjurer's Calling turns almost every match into a shitshow.
Facepalming at people suggesting HOFing Giant because of a card that will eventually rotate out.
That would be a perfectly fair stance were it not for the fact that Mountain Giant has broken other interactions from pre-nerf Warsong Commander to Carnivorous Cube and continues today. It has been a relatively rare moment in the meta where that specific card was not causing issues. If they are going to HoF VANISH!!!!! for fuck's sake, this should have been gone long ago.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
tell me exactly why anyone cares? if the deck is so overpowered play the deck yourself and win then. What exactly is anyone trying to win playing this game anyway? After you get your shit-brown card back what else are you trying to win? There is NOTHING to win in Hearthstone. it's a game where you collect cards and waste time playing. WHAT DO YOU FUCKING WIN PLEASE TELL ME, I'd like to know. The bitching and whining stems from these decks keeping you from winning exactly WHAT?
are you that cocky to point out something .0000000000001 of players will actually get or you just can't come up with anything plausible? So you are telling me big priest is keeping p[eople from winning tournament prize money? Get real dude. Just the answer I expected from the peanut gallery. If that was the case bots would be in tournaments. Sorry, but if I wanted to win money playing cards I'd play poker at the casino son, not hearthstone. So again what are these kids whining for about not winning?
I've highlighted the question/s you asked. Just because you don't happen to like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong. It doesn't really matter whether it is one person or a million people that win. You asked what there is to win in Hearthstone. I've answered that question for you. I also believe I said "for starters..." which implies there are further things you can win.
That applies to a fraction of 1 percent of the player base. No matter how big the kitty is, it's utterly meaningless to most of us. Even the esports spectators amount to a small fraction of the total Hearthstone player base.
This isnt really relevant for the above reasons. The question wasn't "What is meaningful to the majority of the playerbase?". The question was " What can be won in Hearthstone?"
I hate agreeing with mods . . . it smacks of brown-nosing.
Having said that, you guys talking shit about the esports scene need to learn how to dream. Everyone should have something they want to try for with very little odds of success. If it was easy, what would be the point?
Having said that, the actual answer is that people like their hobbies to give positive feedback. If the hobby is knitting, the positive feedback is Pinterest posts. If the hobby is Hearthstone, the positive feedback is wins in game. Nothing more or less complicated than that, and frankly, you can take a long jump off a short pier if you presume to tell others how to spend their time or money.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The deck is hard to play that is why it win rates don't reflect it's power. Its hard to admit, but if a bad at hand management player like me is getting above 50% win rate with it then there is something wrong with the deck.
On a side note i think the problem is mountain giant. The amount of games if won just with a t3/4 giant and no other minion is bordering on the ridiculous and it isn't just in this deck it included cubelock,evenlock,handlock,Hand druid, hand buff paladin(in wild),plot twist warlock. Not a years go by without some deck abusing it. I think the year if seen the least of it was the year of the kraken were players abused arcane giant/jogg and there was jade druid and overload shaman.
not including meme decks and im sure i might have missed something.
2018:even lock,cubelock, big hand mage(is a memeish deck but im including it here since bizard started to push the deck here and it wasnt totally horrible)
2017:cubelock
2016: handlock(was played for the few months before year of kraken started)
2015:handlock
2014:handlock
And if your looking at the Decks it showing a trend that more and more decks is able to abuse it.
That applies to a fraction of 1 percent of the player base. No matter how big the kitty is, it's utterly meaningless to most of us. Even the esports spectators amount to a small fraction of the total Hearthstone player base.
The question was " What can be won in Hearthstone?"
The question was "What do you f-ing win?" (emphasis mine), and it was directed at the people complaining about this card, not the people playing in tournaments.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
That applies to a fraction of 1 percent of the player base. No matter how big the kitty is, it's utterly meaningless to most of us. Even the esports spectators amount to a small fraction of the total Hearthstone player base.
The question was " What can be won in Hearthstone?"
The question was "What do you f-ing win?" (emphasis mine), and it was directed at the people complaining about this card, not the people playing in tournaments.
That's semantics - the meaning is still the same. The "you" is plural, and refers to people in general - unless you're suggesting he had a specific person's name? Therefore, since the object of the sentence is all-encompassing, it makes sense to provide an example of something that "you" (plural) can win playing Hearthstone. Once again, my comment was relevant. Disliking it does not make it wrong.
That applies to a fraction of 1 percent of the player base. No matter how big the kitty is, it's utterly meaningless to most of us. Even the esports spectators amount to a small fraction of the total Hearthstone player base.
The question was " What can be won in Hearthstone?"
The question was "What do you f-ing win?" (emphasis mine), and it was directed at the people complaining about this card, not the people playing in tournaments.
That's semantics - the meaning is still the same. The "you" is plural, and refers to people in general - unless you're suggesting he had a specific person's name? Therefore, since the object of the sentence is all-encompassing, it makes sense to provide an example of something that "you" (plural) can win playing Hearthstone. Once again, my comment was relevant. Disliking it does not make it wrong.
Actually, you've just made my point. If the "you" is truly all-encompassing, your response does not apply to the vast majority of the people he was talking to.
Exactly what I originally said: The tournament prize pool is utterly meaningless to most of us.
At no point have I ever claimed that your statement was false or that it applied to absolutely no one.
The point is that you are answering a question that wasn't asked. And that's why you're misunderstanding the answer and not following on. As others have touched upon, ignoring the very real prizes that "you" can win through playing Hearthstone just because you don't think many can achieve it, is only fooling yourself, really. It doesn't change what is. Nobody said winning should be easy, nor that everyone should attain that level. Only that there are things you can win in Hearthstone, if you play well enough.
The guy's question has been answered satisfactorily. Probably no need to labour the issue further.
And on that note, this feels a little like a detraction from the thread topic, so I'm going to finish that line of discussion there, since I have no intention of derailing the OP's thread in this way.
tell me exactly why anyone cares? if the deck is so overpowered play the deck yourself and win then. What exactly is anyone trying to win playing this game anyway? After you get your shit-brown card back what else are you trying to win? There is NOTHING to win in Hearthstone. it's a game where you collect cards and waste time playing. WHAT DO YOU FUCKING WIN PLEASE TELL ME, I'd like to know. The bitching and whining stems from these decks keeping you from winning exactly WHAT?
People can enjoy playing a game without victory having a prize attached to it. People can take pride in competing for Rank 15, 10, 5, competing for Legend, competing for top 16, top 1, esports tournaments, whatever. People just want what they feel is best for the game and that's their fucking business.
Not everything in life has to have a physical prize for winning.
I don't think you get it. It's ok to take pride in competing for certain ranks and take part in tournaments etc. But when you start complaining so hard in the forums about a certain card, then you got to ask yourself "Is it worth it?". Is it worth sacrificing your mental health for this game? Do you really win something that important?
I understand you don't like certain cards, but really, don't lose yourself because of a game, ok? You're better than that.
tell me exactly why anyone cares? if the deck is so overpowered play the deck yourself and win then. What exactly is anyone trying to win playing this game anyway? After you get your shit-brown card back what else are you trying to win? There is NOTHING to win in Hearthstone. it's a game where you collect cards and waste time playing. WHAT DO YOU FUCKING WIN PLEASE TELL ME, I'd like to know. The bitching and whining stems from these decks keeping you from winning exactly WHAT?
People can enjoy playing a game without victory having a prize attached to it. People can take pride in competing for Rank 15, 10, 5, competing for Legend, competing for top 16, top 1, esports tournaments, whatever. People just want what they feel is best for the game and that's their fucking business.
Not everything in life has to have a physical prize for winning.
I don't think you get it. It's ok to take pride in competing for certain ranks and take part in tournaments etc. But when you start complaining so hard in the forums about a certain card, then you got to ask yourself "Is it worth it?". Is it worth sacrificing your mental health for this game? Do you really win something that important?
I understand you don't like certain cards, but really, don't lose yourself because of a game, ok? You're better than that.
Completely mentally sound, but thank you for your concern, you're a real gem.
Bottom line is if people want to vent about something they have a problem with, just let them. I'm not the one who has an issue with Conjurer's Calling, but if someone thinks it is detrimental the the Hearthstone experience and wants to discuss that on Hearthpwn, they are more than within their rights to do so, and that doesn't mean they are "sacrificing their mental health." Not everyone opens a discussion on this forum because losing a card game has traumatised them in some way. Forums are meant for discussing whatever topic they are dedicated to, and game balance tends to be a major point of discussion in Hearthstone because the game is ever changing and these issues arise fairly often. Don't worry yourself about other forum users until they start exhibiting actual symptoms of mental illness.
It's very easy to nerf such a card - the next set has to include bad statted minions with the same cost as the giants - so you get bad outcomes and the value drops down - the new Brann made a good step for the 7 Mana-Slot
It's very easy to nerf such a card - the next set has to include bad statted minions with the same cost as the giants - so you get bad outcomes and the value drops down - the new Brann made a good step for the 7 Mana-Slot
This seems like a somewhat counter-intuitive way to deal with the issue. Adding bad minions to counter another unrelated card doesn't feel like good design practice to me. Not only that, but you then need to come up with a minion that costs 12 mana, so will need an easy way to reduce its mana cost, and not only that, if it has bad stats, it will need a really positive Battlecry or ability. And if it's a battlecry, then it also will get abused by other cards such as Shudderwock. There's always big knock-on effects to handling a problem in this way.
I think better options for Conjurer's Calling have been suggested - in particular, removing the Twinspell keyword is a good one, simply because the card itself is actually alright and has a decent combo, but it's the fact you can do it twice for one card that seems to be the biggest problem.
It's very easy to nerf such a card - the next set has to include bad statted minions with the same cost as the giants - so you get bad outcomes and the value drops down - the new Brann made a good step for the 7 Mana-Slot
This seems like a somewhat counter-intuitive way to deal with the issue. Adding bad minions to counter another unrelated card doesn't feel like good design practice to me. Not only that, but you then need to come up with a minion that costs 12 mana, so will need an easy way to reduce its mana cost, and not only that, if it has bad stats, it will need a really positive Battlecry or ability. And if it's a battlecry, then it also will get abused by other cards such as Shudderwock. There's always big knock-on effects to handling a problem in this way.
I think better options for Conjurer's Calling have been suggested - in particular, removing the Twinspell keyword is a good one, simply because the card itself is actually alright and has a decent combo, but it's the fact you can do it twice for one card that seems to be the biggest problem.
But when you remove the Twinspell Warrior steamrolls Mages. It's the edge Mage has to beat them. This way you create a new most hated deck and it has to get nerfed too.
I'd rather see either Mountain Giant get HOF'd or a new 12 drop with at least decent effect but bad stats so you cant abuse it. It isn't that hard.
I think better options for Conjurer's Calling have been suggested - in particular, removing the Twinspell keyword is a good one, simply because the card itself is actually alright and has a decent combo, but it's the fact you can do it twice for one card that seems to be the biggest problem.
I'm afraid that's not going to happen because every other class that received twinspell cards received 2 different cards. Removing Twinspell from Conjurer's Calling will make people complain that Mage is the only class with only 1 Twinspell card. Remember Gadgetzan set gave Druids and Shamans 3 class specific Jade cards while they gave Rogue only 2.
I think better options for Conjurer's Calling have been suggested - in particular, removing the Twinspell keyword is a good one, simply because the card itself is actually alright and has a decent combo, but it's the fact you can do it twice for one card that seems to be the biggest problem.
I'm afraid that's not going to happen because every other class that received twinspell cards received 2 different cards. Removing Twinspell from Conjurer's Calling will make people complain that Mage is the only class with only 1 Twinspell card. Remember Gadgetzan set gave Druids and Shamans 3 class specific Jade cards while they gave Rogue only 2.
If they were going to consider a change to this card (not saying they even are - there's certainy not been any insinuation to that that I know of), then this would be a minimal problem. They could either add the keyword to another card (since buffs are now something they do), or even add a new card. Irrespective of this, it shouldnt matter how many Twinspells there are for each class, since it is not a requirement to fulfil a certain number for each class - that is a soft rule introduced by the designers rather than the game itself.
But when you remove the Twinspell Warrior steamrolls Mages. It's the edge Mage has to beat them. This way you create a new most hated deck and it has to get nerfed too. I'd rather see either Mountain Giant get HOF'd or a new 12 drop with at least decent effect but bad stats so you cant abuse it. It isn't that hard.
HoF'ing Mountain Giant destroys many decks. And is much more likely to push Warrior into a more powerful position. Your argument seems to be self-defeating. But if we ignore that part, your argument is also subjective, rather than objective. You're making a claim that Warrior will steamroll Mage without the Twinspell keyword, but I would need to see some sort of evidence of this to be convinced, since Warrior struggles against more things in that deck than the Twinspell word. A single spell would work just as well in my opinion. Removing the giant altogether is much more likely to destroy the whole deck.
But when you remove the Twinspell Warrior steamrolls Mages. It's the edge Mage has to beat them. This way you create a new most hated deck and it has to get nerfed too. I'd rather see either Mountain Giant get HOF'd or a new 12 drop with at least decent effect but bad stats so you cant abuse it. It isn't that hard.
HoF'ing Mountain Giant destroys many decks. And is much more likely to push Warrior into a more powerful position. Your argument seems to be self-defeating. But if we ignore that part, your argument is also subjective, rather than objective. You're making a claim that Warrior will steamroll Mage without the Twinspell keyword, but I would need to see some sort of evidence of this to be convinced, since Warrior struggles against more things in that deck than the Twinspell word. A single spell would work just as well in my opinion. Removing the giant altogether is much more likely to destroy the whole deck.
Many decks? In standard there is only mage using it well (warlocks with Plot twist are only mediocre at best). Or do you mean the ones that are always oppressing when having it on 4? In every new meta? They are already in wild as far as i know so it would not hurt them.
There are other decks in standard that use the Giant, such as Plot Twist Warlock. (as you say, which is actually very strong regardless of whether you happen to think so - it currently has over 56.4% win rate on HSReplay) And I'd be very surprised if there aren't more decks in the new meta that will use it too.
There are other decks in standard that use the Giant, such as Plot Twist Warlock. (as you say, which is actually very strong regardless of whether you happen to think so - it currently has over 56.4% win rate on HSReplay) And I'd be very surprised if there aren't more decks in the new meta that will use it too.
Sure, there are other decks that use it (currently one) but doesn't it always grow anger within people to get knocked out by turn 4 when the ginat hits the board? I'm fine with it as a mage AND warrior player, but there should also be more ways to kill warriors too other than hoping for them to not have any boardclear.
Those numbers are probably boosted by kibler, because i do not think in a meta with a lot of aggro decks plot twist warlock will survive long enough. ^^
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Always expect the unexpectable!
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Facepalming at people suggesting HOFing Giant because of a card that will eventually rotate out.
Transforming the creature at the same modified cost sounds good at first... but also kills the deck. Why play Pocket Galaxy, play the Giants/Alex/etc and then summon a bunch of 1/1s? Or do nothing for 4 turns to hold MG and summon two 4/4s after passing the first 4 turns? You get so behind on Tempo you might as well just delete the whole deck.
Though I agree that in Arena Conjurer's Calling turns almost every match into a shitshow.
That would be a perfectly fair stance were it not for the fact that Mountain Giant has broken other interactions from pre-nerf Warsong Commander to Carnivorous Cube and continues today. It has been a relatively rare moment in the meta where that specific card was not causing issues. If they are going to HoF VANISH!!!!! for fuck's sake, this should have been gone long ago.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I've highlighted the question/s you asked.
Just because you don't happen to like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong.
It doesn't really matter whether it is one person or a million people that win. You asked what there is to win in Hearthstone. I've answered that question for you.
I also believe I said "for starters..." which implies there are further things you can win.
This isnt really relevant for the above reasons.
The question wasn't "What is meaningful to the majority of the playerbase?".
The question was " What can be won in Hearthstone?"
I hate agreeing with mods . . . it smacks of brown-nosing.
Having said that, you guys talking shit about the esports scene need to learn how to dream. Everyone should have something they want to try for with very little odds of success. If it was easy, what would be the point?
Having said that, the actual answer is that people like their hobbies to give positive feedback. If the hobby is knitting, the positive feedback is Pinterest posts. If the hobby is Hearthstone, the positive feedback is wins in game. Nothing more or less complicated than that, and frankly, you can take a long jump off a short pier if you presume to tell others how to spend their time or money.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The deck is hard to play that is why it win rates don't reflect it's power. Its hard to admit, but if a bad at hand management player like me is getting above 50% win rate with it then there is something wrong with the deck.
On a side note i think the problem is mountain giant. The amount of games if won just with a t3/4 giant and no other minion is bordering on the ridiculous and it isn't just in this deck it included cubelock,evenlock,handlock,Hand druid, hand buff paladin(in wild),plot twist warlock. Not a years go by without some deck abusing it. I think the year if seen the least of it was the year of the kraken were players abused arcane giant/jogg and there was jade druid and overload shaman.
not including meme decks and im sure i might have missed something.
2018:even lock,cubelock, big hand mage(is a memeish deck but im including it here since bizard started to push the deck here and it wasnt totally horrible)
2017:cubelock
2016: handlock(was played for the few months before year of kraken started)
2015:handlock
2014:handlock
And if your looking at the Decks it showing a trend that more and more decks is able to abuse it.
The question was "What do you f-ing win?" (emphasis mine), and it was directed at the people complaining about this card, not the people playing in tournaments.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
That's semantics - the meaning is still the same.
The "you" is plural, and refers to people in general - unless you're suggesting he had a specific person's name?
Therefore, since the object of the sentence is all-encompassing, it makes sense to provide an example of something that "you" (plural) can win playing Hearthstone.
Once again, my comment was relevant. Disliking it does not make it wrong.
Actually, you've just made my point. If the "you" is truly all-encompassing, your response does not apply to the vast majority of the people he was talking to.
Exactly what I originally said: The tournament prize pool is utterly meaningless to most of us.
At no point have I ever claimed that your statement was false or that it applied to absolutely no one.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
The point is that you are answering a question that wasn't asked. And that's why you're misunderstanding the answer and not following on.
As others have touched upon, ignoring the very real prizes that "you" can win through playing Hearthstone just because you don't think many can achieve it, is only fooling yourself, really. It doesn't change what is.
Nobody said winning should be easy, nor that everyone should attain that level.
Only that there are things you can win in Hearthstone, if you play well enough.
The guy's question has been answered satisfactorily. Probably no need to labour the issue further.
And on that note, this feels a little like a detraction from the thread topic, so I'm going to finish that line of discussion there, since I have no intention of derailing the OP's thread in this way.
Plague of Murlocs is a nice soft nerf. Won't kill the deck but should lower its win percentage a bit, which is probably enough.
Galavant Animation
I don't think you get it. It's ok to take pride in competing for certain ranks and take part in tournaments etc. But when you start complaining so hard in the forums about a certain card, then you got to ask yourself "Is it worth it?". Is it worth sacrificing your mental health for this game? Do you really win something that important?
I understand you don't like certain cards, but really, don't lose yourself because of a game, ok? You're better than that.
Completely mentally sound, but thank you for your concern, you're a real gem.
Bottom line is if people want to vent about something they have a problem with, just let them. I'm not the one who has an issue with Conjurer's Calling, but if someone thinks it is detrimental the the Hearthstone experience and wants to discuss that on Hearthpwn, they are more than within their rights to do so, and that doesn't mean they are "sacrificing their mental health." Not everyone opens a discussion on this forum because losing a card game has traumatised them in some way. Forums are meant for discussing whatever topic they are dedicated to, and game balance tends to be a major point of discussion in Hearthstone because the game is ever changing and these issues arise fairly often. Don't worry yourself about other forum users until they start exhibiting actual symptoms of mental illness.
It's very easy to nerf such a card - the next set has to include bad statted minions with the same cost as the giants - so you get bad outcomes and the value drops down - the new Brann made a good step for the 7 Mana-Slot
This seems like a somewhat counter-intuitive way to deal with the issue. Adding bad minions to counter another unrelated card doesn't feel like good design practice to me.
Not only that, but you then need to come up with a minion that costs 12 mana, so will need an easy way to reduce its mana cost, and not only that, if it has bad stats, it will need a really positive Battlecry or ability.
And if it's a battlecry, then it also will get abused by other cards such as Shudderwock.
There's always big knock-on effects to handling a problem in this way.
I think better options for Conjurer's Calling have been suggested - in particular, removing the Twinspell keyword is a good one, simply because the card itself is actually alright and has a decent combo, but it's the fact you can do it twice for one card that seems to be the biggest problem.
But when you remove the Twinspell Warrior steamrolls Mages. It's the edge Mage has to beat them. This way you create a new most hated deck and it has to get nerfed too.
I'd rather see either Mountain Giant get HOF'd or a new 12 drop with at least decent effect but bad stats so you cant abuse it. It isn't that hard.
Always expect the unexpectable!
I'm afraid that's not going to happen because every other class that received twinspell cards received 2 different cards. Removing Twinspell from Conjurer's Calling will make people complain that Mage is the only class with only 1 Twinspell card. Remember Gadgetzan set gave Druids and Shamans 3 class specific Jade cards while they gave Rogue only 2.
If they were going to consider a change to this card (not saying they even are - there's certainy not been any insinuation to that that I know of), then this would be a minimal problem. They could either add the keyword to another card (since buffs are now something they do), or even add a new card.
Irrespective of this, it shouldnt matter how many Twinspells there are for each class, since it is not a requirement to fulfil a certain number for each class - that is a soft rule introduced by the designers rather than the game itself.
HoF'ing Mountain Giant destroys many decks. And is much more likely to push Warrior into a more powerful position.
Your argument seems to be self-defeating.
But if we ignore that part, your argument is also subjective, rather than objective. You're making a claim that Warrior will steamroll Mage without the Twinspell keyword, but I would need to see some sort of evidence of this to be convinced, since Warrior struggles against more things in that deck than the Twinspell word. A single spell would work just as well in my opinion.
Removing the giant altogether is much more likely to destroy the whole deck.
Many decks? In standard there is only mage using it well (warlocks with Plot twist are only mediocre at best). Or do you mean the ones that are always oppressing when having it on 4? In every new meta? They are already in wild as far as i know so it would not hurt them.
Always expect the unexpectable!
There are other decks in standard that use the Giant, such as Plot Twist Warlock. (as you say, which is actually very strong regardless of whether you happen to think so - it currently has over 56.4% win rate on HSReplay)
And I'd be very surprised if there aren't more decks in the new meta that will use it too.
Sure, there are other decks that use it (currently one) but doesn't it always grow anger within people to get knocked out by turn 4 when the ginat hits the board? I'm fine with it as a mage AND warrior player, but there should also be more ways to kill warriors too other than hoping for them to not have any boardclear.
Those numbers are probably boosted by kibler, because i do not think in a meta with a lot of aggro decks plot twist warlock will survive long enough. ^^
Always expect the unexpectable!