I haven’t played too much with the 3 current hero cards. I just started playing secret hunter and Zul’jin has only won me 1/10 games right when I played it. Boom is annoying to play against - but it is what it is.
Hero cards are basically just changing hero powers. This has been a thing since TGT. It's not going to go away, because there are limited things you can do with a game as simple as HS. It just needs to be balanced better.
Hero cards are basically just changing hero powers. This has been a thing since TGT. It's not going to go away, because there are limited things you can do with a game as simple as HS. It just needs to be balanced better.
With the exception of Deathstalker, every problem hero card was/is a problem because of their battlecry. Jaina with lifesteal, Gul'dan with resurrection of demons and Boom with rush. Blizzard needs to make hero cards with less powerful battlecry.
With the exception of Deathstalker, every problem hero card was/is a problem because of their battlecry. Jaina with lifesteal, Gul'dan with resurrection of demons and Boom with rush. Blizzard needs to make hero cards with less powerful battlecry.
I don't think I agree with that.
Hagatha's battlecry barley matters. Jaina's battlecry wouldn't matter if she couldn't make infinite wellies. Uthor's battle cry was insignificant (as evidenced by the fact that he never saw play until the OTK was a realistic possibility)
In extreme cases:
Gul'Dan's demons certainly mattered, but unless it was cube lock, it was the suck winning games. Even with Boom, the rush aura is heavily crippled without the hero power generating a steady stream of mechs.
I will agree with you on Zul'Jin. The battle cry is basically all that matters with that card.
Hero cards are basically just changing hero powers. This has been a thing since TGT. It's not going to go away, because there are limited things you can do with a game as simple as HS. It just needs to be balanced better.
With the exception of Deathstalker, every problem hero card was/is a problem because of their battlecry. Jaina with lifesteal, Gul'dan with resurrection of demons and Boom with rush. Blizzard needs to make hero cards with less powerful battlecry.
Anduin's Hero Power was the issue (in combination with other cards), and I'd argue that you could tweak either the Lifesteal or Jaina's HP and make the card infinitely less powerful, but yes, they definitely misplaced some Hero Cards when balancing them. I don't think it matters really whether it's the Hero Power or the effect making it broken, unbalanced is unbalanced.
Hero Cards are a really cool idea, they just need to be better balanced.
To me it just feels weird and random only 4 out of 9 classes have a hero card.
Zul'jin is pretty limiting in deck building, some spells you don't want with him and other spells might not be the best play but you'll do it anyway because you want the value from your zul'jin turn. Zul'jin's battlecry can backfire, and doesn't often has the best outcome anyway. So I think he's fine. Hagatha early can be pretty strong and provide solutions to threats at times, but her battlecry also kills your own board and you need minions to generate spells. And shaman can't generate minions out of nowhere like Dr. Boom's discovery. I think for dr Boom best solution is to add the rush to his hero powers; 'your mechs have rush this turn' I really like the idea but as is the rush is too strong against any board, and you kinda need board to kill warrior, or an otk/nomi-style deck. Sure, dr Boom can be drawn late but that is really his only drawback.
I think Zul'Jin is the most balanced of all the hero cards, because if his battlecry was printed as a 10 mana legendary spell it would be pretty fair. The problems come from continuous effects like giving mechs rush or giving elementals lifesteal, which can never really be balanced against their mana cost.
The easiest way to tweak Dr. Boom would be to remove Delivery Drone (or change it to random mechs, so that he doesn't regularly discover additional copies of Omega Devastator or Zilliax anymore). It's not the aura but the coupled infinite stream of threats which breaks the card. Zul'jin and Hagatha both require you to build your deck accordingly and have to be played early (Shaman) or late (Hunter) enough in order to create meaningful value. Not to mention that a good chunk of the Shaman spells ask for specific situations and the Hunter spells can backfire.
Why nerf stuff when you can add more stuff to balance it out? Give a fair chance to every class. Dr. Boom was never a problem before the rotation, it would be silly to nerf him just because the meta is in such a state currently.
The problem with Hero Cards at the moment is that there is no counter play. There is no way to get them out of the opponent's deck, or stop them, or remove them once in play.
Any minion can be removed. A spell can be countered or have its mana cost increased. We've got minions that can pull enemy minions to break up combos, etc. For Hero Cards the only risk is getting it milled.
When Magic introduced planeswalkers they resisted making cards that directly targeted planeswalkers to "make them special" and because there were so few of them. Now years later, there are dozens of cards that can destroy them directly.
If Blizzard wants to keep Heroes in the game - and as a concept I like them - we will inevitably need cards like:
Simplify 1 Priest Spell Return your opponent's Hero and Hero Power to their original state.
The problem with Hero Cards at the moment is that there is no counter play. There is no way to get them out of the opponent's deck, or stop them, or remove them once in play.
Any minion can be removed. A spell can be countered or have its mana cost increased. We've got minions that can pull enemy minions to break up combos, etc. For Hero Cards the only risk is getting it milled.
When Magic introduced planeswalkers they resisted making cards that directly targeted planeswalkers to "make them special" and because there were so few of them. Now years later, there are dozens of cards that can destroy them directly.
If Blizzard wants to keep Heroes in the game - and as a concept I like them - we will inevitably need cards like:
Simplify 1 Priest Spell Return your opponent's Hero and Hero Power to their original state.
Awakened Owl 2 Battlecry: Silence a Hero 2/1
The outcry from those people who crafted a Herocard would be immense.
Spells or minions that negate the upgraded Heropower would be too strong i guess. Like Keyzan Mystic, wich didn’t just removed a secret, she also put it in place for you. A tech card that "kills" a Herocards heropower would almost certainly see play in every deck since Herocards are so strong.
The solution can’t be ; Ok let’s print super powerful Herocards for every class, but with counterplay to make them obsolete. People would rage like no tomorrow. They can be strong, but Blizzard has to stop letting the Heropower generate additional value/cards.
This is why Zhuljin is fine , he generates value ( and tempo) but only one time, his Heropower almost stays the same. That’s how it should be done.
I haven’t played too much with the 3 current hero cards. I just started playing secret hunter and Zul’jin has only won me 1/10 games right when I played it. Boom is annoying to play against - but it is what it is.
Hero cards are basically just changing hero powers.
This has been a thing since TGT.
It's not going to go away, because there are limited things you can do with a game as simple as HS.
It just needs to be balanced better.
With the exception of Deathstalker, every problem hero card was/is a problem because of their battlecry. Jaina with lifesteal, Gul'dan with resurrection of demons and Boom with rush. Blizzard needs to make hero cards with less powerful battlecry.
I don't think I agree with that.
Hagatha's battlecry barley matters.
Jaina's battlecry wouldn't matter if she couldn't make infinite wellies.
Uthor's battle cry was insignificant (as evidenced by the fact that he never saw play until the OTK was a realistic possibility)
In extreme cases:
Gul'Dan's demons certainly mattered, but unless it was cube lock, it was the suck winning games.
Even with Boom, the rush aura is heavily crippled without the hero power generating a steady stream of mechs.
I will agree with you on Zul'Jin. The battle cry is basically all that matters with that card.
Anduin's Hero Power was the issue (in combination with other cards), and I'd argue that you could tweak either the Lifesteal or Jaina's HP and make the card infinitely less powerful, but yes, they definitely misplaced some Hero Cards when balancing them. I don't think it matters really whether it's the Hero Power or the effect making it broken, unbalanced is unbalanced.
Hero Cards are a really cool idea, they just need to be better balanced.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
To me it just feels weird and random only 4 out of 9 classes have a hero card.
Zul'jin is pretty limiting in deck building, some spells you don't want with him and other spells might not be the best play but you'll do it anyway because you want the value from your zul'jin turn. Zul'jin's battlecry can backfire, and doesn't often has the best outcome anyway. So I think he's fine. Hagatha early can be pretty strong and provide solutions to threats at times, but her battlecry also kills your own board and you need minions to generate spells. And shaman can't generate minions out of nowhere like Dr. Boom's discovery. I think for dr Boom best solution is to add the rush to his hero powers; 'your mechs have rush this turn' I really like the idea but as is the rush is too strong against any board, and you kinda need board to kill warrior, or an otk/nomi-style deck. Sure, dr Boom can be drawn late but that is really his only drawback.
I think Zul'Jin is the most balanced of all the hero cards, because if his battlecry was printed as a 10 mana legendary spell it would be pretty fair. The problems come from continuous effects like giving mechs rush or giving elementals lifesteal, which can never really be balanced against their mana cost.
The easiest way to tweak Dr. Boom would be to remove Delivery Drone (or change it to random mechs, so that he doesn't regularly discover additional copies of Omega Devastator or Zilliax anymore). It's not the aura but the coupled infinite stream of threats which breaks the card. Zul'jin and Hagatha both require you to build your deck accordingly and have to be played early (Shaman) or late (Hunter) enough in order to create meaningful value. Not to mention that a good chunk of the Shaman spells ask for specific situations and the Hunter spells can backfire.
Why nerf stuff when you can add more stuff to balance it out? Give a fair chance to every class. Dr. Boom was never a problem before the rotation, it would be silly to nerf him just because the meta is in such a state currently.
It's not rng if you call - Amaz
The problem with Hero Cards at the moment is that there is no counter play. There is no way to get them out of the opponent's deck, or stop them, or remove them once in play.
Any minion can be removed. A spell can be countered or have its mana cost increased. We've got minions that can pull enemy minions to break up combos, etc. For Hero Cards the only risk is getting it milled.
When Magic introduced planeswalkers they resisted making cards that directly targeted planeswalkers to "make them special" and because there were so few of them. Now years later, there are dozens of cards that can destroy them directly.
If Blizzard wants to keep Heroes in the game - and as a concept I like them - we will inevitably need cards like:
Simplify
1
Priest Spell
Return your opponent's Hero and Hero Power to their original state.
Awakened Owl
2
Battlecry: Silence a Hero
2/1
The outcry from those people who crafted a Herocard would be immense.
Spells or minions that negate the upgraded Heropower would be too strong i guess. Like Keyzan Mystic, wich didn’t just removed a secret, she also put it in place for you. A tech card that "kills" a Herocards heropower would almost certainly see play in every deck since Herocards are so strong.
The solution can’t be ; Ok let’s print super powerful Herocards for every class, but with counterplay to make them obsolete. People would rage like no tomorrow. They can be strong, but Blizzard has to stop letting the Heropower generate additional value/cards.
This is why Zhuljin is fine , he generates value ( and tempo) but only one time, his Heropower almost stays the same. That’s how it should be done.