I don't will lie, first time I see the concept of hero cards in KFT DK's I like a lot, really new content and powerful legendary cards was awesome, even the balance around the classes are terrible.
But now feels like unfair advantages and the only solution I can think is the same of Genn/Baku because they not will release hero cards for the other 6 classes and even they release soon the rotation hits the same problem will rise again.
Try to play anything else than hyper aggro with a class don't have hero card and get absolutely destroyed, without any hope, for the classes who have, today I was playing mage and play the best the class can do right now, Khadgar + 8 manas spell, fill the board with 4/5 windfury, what my opponent play? A hero card, a single card, put a lot of 5/5's rush, refill your hand, destroy my minions and put buffed minions in your almost fatigued deck and win the game in the spot, Boom and Hagatha just win the lategame in less drastic but consistent ways.
What you think, it is time to send all hero cards to Wild or this completely unbalanced and unfair crap is part of HS forever now?
Zul'Jin and Hagatha are fair Hero cards in any meta.
The only problematic one in Standard is Boom, but tbh i suspect it is a sum of incredibly powerful cards put in the same archetype (Mech Control), more than just Hero Boom being the only source of the problem.
Zul'Jin and Hagatha are fair Hero cards in any meta.
The only problematic one in Standard is Boom, but tbh i suspect it is a sum of incredibly powerful cards put in the same archetype (Mech Control), more than just Hero Boom being the only source of the problem.
Not sure about that.
If Dr.Boom wouldn’t be so superior in specific matchups, I am sure Hagatha would also be considered a problem card, since she has the ability to bully out every other Control deck.
I loved the hero cards, but I agree alittle since hero Boom is too powerfull, but Hag and Zul are fair enough. I would love to see more hero cards, but they would probably have to release them together in an expansion so that they rotate together
Every tool is (almost) fine if everyone has it: otherwise it would be an unfair competition.
During the Year of The Raven we weren't able to completely understand this concept because Death Knights were just too strong compared to the other 3 heroes: I remember myself saying that Boom, Hagatha and Zul'jin were fair and not broken. I was completely wrong.
The drop in the power level that followed last rotation made crystal clear how Hero Cards (all of them) are heavily meta defining: there are even some cases where a few of them are 1-card-deck (you put together 29 card and then you slam the Hero Card: see Rexxar before and Boom now for example)
In the end, I'd like to answer no to your question because Hero Cards are such a cool concept, but unfortunately I have to say yes.
Hagatha is depended on minions,if you want to get some value from her you must have some minions in your hand,in late game its quite problematic,also there is a lot of bad shaman spell's,Dr.Boom can restore hp,find mechs(compare a random shaman spell and random mech that gain rush) ,Warrior already has a lot of tools to survive a lot of damage,avoid fatigue,in late game a lot of mechs with rush just wont let your opponent to take board control,there is A LOT of good mechs that can remove or do something usefull,that what a problem of Boom(also remember about 1 mana discover 3 MECHS!).
Hero cards are fine for the most part I think. The problem comes when you try to think of how to balance future cards around them (in standard, which is another reason the entire format concept is a disaster when compared to wild).
For example, should the current few best performing classes even be given a hero card if a rotation is not happening within a few months?
If you do go a midrange or better performing class a hero card (or just a weaker class with a really busted hero card) do you avoid giving the class too many powerhouse cards for a full 2 years? Do you just waste design time by nerfing said hero card 6-9 months later to be able to give that same class better non-hero class cards?
And really now that I think of it hero cards seem to strain the design of the classes that receive them. After all, look how often the vocal minority demanded nerfs of the classes that received various hero cards. If T5 listened to such complaints then it would be fair to say that a class receiving a hero card is partially to blame for some of their non-hero class cards getting potential nerfs down the line.
I would love it if 3 new hero cards were introduced with the next expansion and they turn your hero into a Monk! Priest, Rogue, and Paladin would get Monk Hero cards, and there would be Monk class cards that you discover through other cards.
Hero cards in general are a fine concept, but just like any minion or spell a hero card can need balancing and thus far of all the hero cards ever printed we've only had a problem with 2. Anduin and Dr Boom. Right now 3/4 hero cards are fine, there's no issue with Jaxx, Zul or Hag. You think Hag has too much later game value because you aren't playing her a lot, I've played her a lot and wouldn't believe how many bad/non-useful spells there are for Shaman. Hagatha is far from being too good.
Now Dr Boom is too good. The delivery drone for sure shouldn't be a discover, it should be a random mech. One of the major reasons is because of Omega Destoryer and also discovering mechs with huge stats like mech dragon. Also speaking of mech dragon I have another thought about Dr Boom, the WAY his battlecry behaves is bonkers. So it gives every mech rush, well I think that's over the top already but what's really wacky is that you can play mechs with deathrattles like the mech dragon, rush it into something and then the 7/7 that pops out instantly has rush as well!? The same thing with Security Rover, it's nuts that a card like that rushes in produces the token taunts and then those taunts also have rush. Some people people feel Dr.Boom is unfun to play against because his removal options are too strong and when I look at how his rush battlecry works I'm inclined to agree.
hero cards is a great thing in my opinion. they are similar to planeswalkers from mtg. the big issue is that blizz didn't make any this go around. hero cards are usually really good. the main reason they are balanced is because other classes also should have hero cards. if you look at frost lich jaina, in a vacuum where she is the only hero card in rotation, she would be overpowered beyond belief. it's the fact that other classes also had roughly equally powerful hero cards that it wasn't horrible for balance. now blizz is realizing what happens when you make a strong and unique form of card and don't spread out the design for it.
I don't understand the argument that if every class had Hero Cards that would 'solve the problem'.
Was the Warrior DK ever played competitively? It was a seriously underpowered card.
Hero Cards are just another type of card. There have been very strong ones - Jaina, Gul'dan, Rexxar - and fairly balanced ones - Valeera, Hagatha, Malfurion. Others have been strong for a time before being knocked back down (after nerfs, Anduin), and some were just never good. Just like every other type of card.
The Hero cards give those classes a boost most of the time. Zul'jin lost most of its play because the Spellstone rotated out and was nerfed. Some of the other spells also rotated out like Flanking Strike. I imagine if there are more Hunter spells in the next expansion, and they turn out to be as good as Spellstone or Flanking, then Zul'jin will be a problem again. Hunter also lost the DK, which seriously carried the class to victory.
I don't mind Hero cards, but because they are often game winning when playing them and there is no counter play to them, it just feels helpless at time. Especially if Warrior is at a high armor or health total, you are not beating them once you go into the late turns.
What I think needs to happen is some sort of 'counter' to hero cards, perhaps a tech card. Turning off the Hero power for a turn or two. Or making the hero power costing more mana. Or negating the battlecry. Something to offer some counter play to the Hero cards.
I agree, hero cards re problem in long term games, i mean, Blizz, can print more hero cards, but not infinite or almost infinite value hero cards. Garrosh was fine, coz he just deal 1 damage, it's bad or specific, Thrall was fine coz evole is good, but you need minons, you can't infinite valueing it and etc. Gul Dan not infinite value, but he has so broken hero power deal 3 heal 3 it's like triple Baku or triple Justicar.
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I don't will lie, first time I see the concept of hero cards in KFT DK's I like a lot, really new content and powerful legendary cards was awesome, even the balance around the classes are terrible.
But now feels like unfair advantages and the only solution I can think is the same of Genn/Baku because they not will release hero cards for the other 6 classes and even they release soon the rotation hits the same problem will rise again.
Try to play anything else than hyper aggro with a class don't have hero card and get absolutely destroyed, without any hope, for the classes who have, today I was playing mage and play the best the class can do right now, Khadgar + 8 manas spell, fill the board with 4/5 windfury, what my opponent play? A hero card, a single card, put a lot of 5/5's rush, refill your hand, destroy my minions and put buffed minions in your almost fatigued deck and win the game in the spot, Boom and Hagatha just win the lategame in less drastic but consistent ways.
What you think, it is time to send all hero cards to Wild or this completely unbalanced and unfair crap is part of HS forever now?
The Hero cards are fine. I'd rather they tweak them with nerfs if they felt it was needed than throw them to Wild.
Zul'jin is far from broken, he's just a good card. Dr. Boom may need tweaking, but really Warrior as a whole is just very strong right now.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Zul'Jin and Hagatha are fair Hero cards in any meta.
The only problematic one in Standard is Boom, but tbh i suspect it is a sum of incredibly powerful cards put in the same archetype (Mech Control), more than just Hero Boom being the only source of the problem.
Waiting for new rogue hero.
Not sure about that.
If Dr.Boom wouldn’t be so superior in specific matchups, I am sure Hagatha would also be considered a problem card, since she has the ability to bully out every other Control deck.
I loved the hero cards, but I agree alittle since hero Boom is too powerfull, but Hag and Zul are fair enough. I would love to see more hero cards, but they would probably have to release them together in an expansion so that they rotate together
Every tool is (almost) fine if everyone has it: otherwise it would be an unfair competition.
During the Year of The Raven we weren't able to completely understand this concept because Death Knights were just too strong compared to the other 3 heroes: I remember myself saying that Boom, Hagatha and Zul'jin were fair and not broken. I was completely wrong.
The drop in the power level that followed last rotation made crystal clear how Hero Cards (all of them) are heavily meta defining: there are even some cases where a few of them are 1-card-deck (you put together 29 card and then you slam the Hero Card: see Rexxar before and Boom now for example)
In the end, I'd like to answer no to your question because Hero Cards are such a cool concept, but unfortunately I have to say yes.
Rogue always have strong agressive deck to not need so desesperately a hero card.
But priest, warlock and mage...
I love the concept of heroes, and I by no means think Hagatha or Zul’Jin pose any kind of issues.
Boom is really strong, but what makes him potentially problematic are all the good mechs and control tools he has.
Hyper aggro is not your only option. I’m playing a miracle/Nomi Priest that can beat any of the hero classes
Blizzard said there won't be any new hero cards anymore, at least for now
Hagatha is depended on minions,if you want to get some value from her you must have some minions in your hand,in late game its quite problematic,also there is a lot of bad shaman spell's,Dr.Boom can restore hp,find mechs(compare a random shaman spell and random mech that gain rush) ,Warrior already has a lot of tools to survive a lot of damage,avoid fatigue,in late game a lot of mechs with rush just wont let your opponent to take board control,there is A LOT of good mechs that can remove or do something usefull,that what a problem of Boom(also remember about 1 mana discover 3 MECHS!).
The Great Bubun
Hero cards are fine for the most part I think. The problem comes when you try to think of how to balance future cards around them (in standard, which is another reason the entire format concept is a disaster when compared to wild).
For example, should the current few best performing classes even be given a hero card if a rotation is not happening within a few months?
If you do go a midrange or better performing class a hero card (or just a weaker class with a really busted hero card) do you avoid giving the class too many powerhouse cards for a full 2 years? Do you just waste design time by nerfing said hero card 6-9 months later to be able to give that same class better non-hero class cards?
And really now that I think of it hero cards seem to strain the design of the classes that receive them. After all, look how often the vocal minority demanded nerfs of the classes that received various hero cards. If T5 listened to such complaints then it would be fair to say that a class receiving a hero card is partially to blame for some of their non-hero class cards getting potential nerfs down the line.
I would love it if 3 new hero cards were introduced with the next expansion and they turn your hero into a Monk! Priest, Rogue, and Paladin would get Monk Hero cards, and there would be Monk class cards that you discover through other cards.
Hero cards in general are a fine concept, but just like any minion or spell a hero card can need balancing and thus far of all the hero cards ever printed we've only had a problem with 2. Anduin and Dr Boom. Right now 3/4 hero cards are fine, there's no issue with Jaxx, Zul or Hag. You think Hag has too much later game value because you aren't playing her a lot, I've played her a lot and wouldn't believe how many bad/non-useful spells there are for Shaman. Hagatha is far from being too good.
Now Dr Boom is too good. The delivery drone for sure shouldn't be a discover, it should be a random mech. One of the major reasons is because of Omega Destoryer and also discovering mechs with huge stats like mech dragon. Also speaking of mech dragon I have another thought about Dr Boom, the WAY his battlecry behaves is bonkers. So it gives every mech rush, well I think that's over the top already but what's really wacky is that you can play mechs with deathrattles like the mech dragon, rush it into something and then the 7/7 that pops out instantly has rush as well!? The same thing with Security Rover, it's nuts that a card like that rushes in produces the token taunts and then those taunts also have rush. Some people people feel Dr.Boom is unfun to play against because his removal options are too strong and when I look at how his rush battlecry works I'm inclined to agree.
hero cards is a great thing in my opinion. they are similar to planeswalkers from mtg. the big issue is that blizz didn't make any this go around. hero cards are usually really good. the main reason they are balanced is because other classes also should have hero cards. if you look at frost lich jaina, in a vacuum where she is the only hero card in rotation, she would be overpowered beyond belief. it's the fact that other classes also had roughly equally powerful hero cards that it wasn't horrible for balance. now blizz is realizing what happens when you make a strong and unique form of card and don't spread out the design for it.
I don't understand the argument that if every class had Hero Cards that would 'solve the problem'.
Was the Warrior DK ever played competitively? It was a seriously underpowered card.
Hero Cards are just another type of card. There have been very strong ones - Jaina, Gul'dan, Rexxar - and fairly balanced ones - Valeera, Hagatha, Malfurion. Others have been strong for a time before being knocked back down (after nerfs, Anduin), and some were just never good. Just like every other type of card.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
If they don't plan on giving the other classes a hero card next expansion, then they need to nerf the warrior hero by removing rush.
The Hero cards give those classes a boost most of the time. Zul'jin lost most of its play because the Spellstone rotated out and was nerfed. Some of the other spells also rotated out like Flanking Strike. I imagine if there are more Hunter spells in the next expansion, and they turn out to be as good as Spellstone or Flanking, then Zul'jin will be a problem again. Hunter also lost the DK, which seriously carried the class to victory.
I don't mind Hero cards, but because they are often game winning when playing them and there is no counter play to them, it just feels helpless at time. Especially if Warrior is at a high armor or health total, you are not beating them once you go into the late turns.
What I think needs to happen is some sort of 'counter' to hero cards, perhaps a tech card. Turning off the Hero power for a turn or two. Or making the hero power costing more mana. Or negating the battlecry. Something to offer some counter play to the Hero cards.
The only solution is more hero cards and make them removable, if they really want to copy MTG planeswalkers.
It's not rng if you call - Amaz
I agree, hero cards re problem in long term games, i mean, Blizz, can print more hero cards, but not infinite or almost infinite value hero cards. Garrosh was fine, coz he just deal 1 damage, it's bad or specific, Thrall was fine coz evole is good, but you need minons, you can't infinite valueing it and etc. Gul Dan not infinite value, but he has so broken hero power deal 3 heal 3 it's like triple Baku or triple Justicar.