I fully agree with your points. The danger face is, that the community gets so used to the nerfs, they will never decrease, due to a specific mentality trained in this process, and my feeling is that little by little we are getting at that point.
In terms of what OP suggests: I do understand that. I've started around Naxx so I don't really care whether I lose dust with incoming nerfs. I do understand the necessity of nerfs, when certain stuff becomes oppressive (or "I'm In Charge!"), that's probably only way of fixing it.
I just don't feel like nerfs should be the answer to everything. It has become the only way the so-called "HS community" sees as the solution. The more often Blizzard will nerf cards, more cards will become nearly unplayable. It should be in really rare cases that Blizzard should intervene. And I think that the secret lies in printing answers in the next set (like what they did with Jades and Skulking Geist or printing Hecklebot instead of Dirty Rat).
I just feel that people do not realise the impact of the nerfs as the "we need a nerf" posts multiply. Just because a card is powerful doesn't mean its unfair. Just an opinion. Do not crucify me like you did the OP please.
your title reads "why does the hearthstone community behave as a selfish child?" I Italicized some of the text to emphasize my point. you ask why a community of people, behaves as a singular person. this is dumb, the hearthstone 'community' is not one mind, but it is a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions. so when people complain that the hearthstone community is never happy, then that is because there will always be someone in this vast ocean of players who is not happy with the way things are.
it is always the most negative people who shout the loudest, so it will seem like the hearthstone community is a bunch of suckers who play a game they hate. it is the same if you watch the news, they only ever talk about bad things happening, so of course watching the news makes the world seem dark, and violent.
if you were to see eleven threads over 2 days asking for nerfs for eight different cards then you would call the entire community a selfish child. but when you think about it, that is only eleven people, there are still over a hundred hearthpwn users who have said nothing bad about the game. but you would still call those people selfish children because you only see the bad part.
you compare the hearthstone community to the Magic community, and this is where your post gets really bad, because the Hearthstone community is made up of regular people, think of someone you work with, or maybe a good friend of yours, that person could just as easily be a Magic player as a Hearthstone player. I don't understand why you would think that this one game attracts more whinny people than this other similar game. I personally play both Magic and Hearthstone, and I do not complain about any cards or decks on either games. and I imagine that a lot of other users on this site can say the same thing.
the hearthstone community does not behave like a selfish child, that is just impossible because there are so many different people in this community. I am just boggled at why you think your post makes sense.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
Nerfs more frequently are a good thing, it keeps things fresh in a game that otherwise grows stagnant very quickly.
And it doesn't require much intelligence to realize that rogue is overpowered. There's no need to wait and collect more evidence, it was clear from the start that rogue will require some tuning.
1) A group of people CAN behave as a individual, there a whole branch of social science that studies this behaviour, it is called Sociology. The point of my whole post is exactly , why the group of individuals that plays HS it became to behaves mostly as one child asking constantly for nerfs. If this would be a opinion of a few of the individuals, that's just fine, but this is not the case, in my view.
2) I agree the most negative people shoput the loudest. However, that is not the case, from almost all different kind of HS players started to ask for nerfs just days after the expansion came up.
3) Finally, MTG and HS are very different games nerfwise, there are not similar at all. MTG hardly would nerf a card in MTG Arena due to that would make strongly diverge the digital and paper game. However this is in the very nature of HS that is digital game only.
Just from your title and first paragraph you sound like a pompous ass. You sling hash at an entire community because of what a small percentage of members are suggesting, that automatically makes you look short sighted. Also, it is clear that at least a few cards need tuning, the statistics have said it, the meta snapshots have said it, the professional players have said it and you're just being a fanboy if you want to ignore all that and pretend Blizzard got it 100% correct and nothing needs balance. You can't shame players for suggesting balance. This is a complex game, it will forever need more balancing.
The thing is that not all of the nerfs demanded by players are as legitimate as other suggestions.
I mean pick ax is a very common one I see, despite everyone and their brother having access to 2 common quality 2 mana oozes (oh no! the 2 mana 'tempo loss'!). Not to mention the really dumb idea to nerf practically every single rogue card at once as opposed to nerfing one card and testing how the change does at tuning the deck.
Blizzard sure doesn't get things 100% right, but if you think the players do any better you are certainly wrong.
Just from your title and first paragraph you sound like a pompous ass. You sling hash at an entire community because of what a small percentage of members are suggesting, that automatically makes you look short sighted. Also, it is clear that at least a few cards need tuning, the statistics have said it, the meta snapshots have said it, the professional players have said it and you're just being a fanboy if you want to ignore all that and pretend Blizzard got it 100% correct and nothing needs balance. You can't shame players for suggesting balance. This is a complex game, it will forever need more balancing.
The thing is that not all of the nerfs demanded by players are as legitimate as other suggestions.
I mean pick ax is a very common one I see, despite everyone and their brother having access to 2 common quality 2 mana oozes (oh no! the 2 mana 'tempo loss'!). Not to mention the really dumb idea to nerf practically every single rogue card at once as opposed to nerfing one card and testing how the change does at tuning the deck.
Blizzard sure doesn't get things 100% right, but if you think the players do any better you are certainly wrong.
I said "at least a few" cards need tuning, I didn't say every single nerf that every single player wants should be put into effect. Middle ground please.
Finally, my opinion here is that everyone, including myself, should care more about to beat the tier 1 decks and less in whining, and spend time in enjoy to play the game that we love. The whole community should face the game a more mature game.
Makes me think: Instead of writing a post about the best ways to beat the tier 1 decks or spending time to enjoy the game, he writes a post whining about the state of the community, hereby adding to the community 'whining'.
If you dislike a particular type of post and prefer other types, it might be best to write far far less about the type you don't like and more about the type you do.
^^^ This! That last part! Can't say how many times I've started typing a response to someone on these forums or other social media and stop to think, "This isn't helping the conversation is it?" And if I feel like it's just whining, insulting, etc, as opposed to being helpful I delete what I was typing. Online forums and social media as a whole could benefit from more of that. (Now I sound like the pompous jerk!)
But for real, to answer the underlying question of the OP: I feel that in many cases people who want to play a specific class or deck/deck type will become upset when what they are trying to play is easy beat by Class X, or Cards A, B, and C. They will then complain that X, A, B, and C need to be nerfed so the aren't disadvantaged against those classes. I could be wrong though.
Sure, and I understand, that feeling, I even thing that this should be taken in consideration by Blizzard. Actually, it does (not always successfully), the point is that every class cannot be playable after every single expansion so sometimes you have to wait to your favorite class to be playable again. Blizzard clearly tries to switch on and off the classes after every expansion to fulfill everyone's desires
Sure, and I understand, that feeling, I even thing that this should be taken in consideration by Blizzard. Actually, it does (not always successfully), the point is that every class cannot be playable after every single expansion so sometimes you have to wait to your favorite class to be playable again. Blizzard clearly tries to switch on and off the classes after every expansion to fulfill everyone's desires
I could be remembering it wrong, but I do believe there was an interview with Ben Brode a while back where he basically said it was very difficult to balance all 9 classes at once, and they were happy having 3-4 on top even if it meant a couple were pretty much dead. So they would adjust this by making stronger cards for weaker classes and weaker cards for higher classes.
Their way of thinking has seemingly changed to try and keep every class with at least one viable archetype, however, I don't doubt that they continue to make strong cards for weak classes, and weak cards for strong classes to try and balance things or just shake things up. It may not always work out as intended, but it may at least result in a change.
Personally, the only nerf I think could be deserved is with Walking Fountain, but not because it's ruling the meta. Mostly because it's a common card you can have two of in your deck that is, in my opinion, better than a legendary like Al'Akir the Windlord. A small mana increase to 9 or a stat change to 3/6 or 3/7 would be good. But again, it's a possible nerf, but not a necessity.
The new expansion has been running just for few weeks, not even a month and many players, and streamers are asking endlessly for nerfs.
The Nerf campaign started just days after expansion came up and runs since so. I've been a HS player from the very beginning, and in my humble opinion I think the community is getting used to too fast to asking Blizzard to solve their own problems, via nerfs.
After a week the meta is not fully defined (or it shouldn't be) but the HS players seems to feel that it is over and there's no chance to deal with the meta, so ask daddy Blizzard to solve the problem. If you take a long perspective, it rarely happens that the starting set of decks in a expansion ends up ruling the meta. Even though in this meta is happening the first few weeks mech hunter was unseen, but right now seems a huge problem for everyone.
In paper MTG the community behaves in much more mature way. I understand there is no nerf chance in MTG, an any meta adaptation must be done through banning cards. But even though now there is a very powerful card in the meta (among the three best of all history of its kind power-level-wise), the community is still struggling against it, Pros, streamers and players. and almost no one is asking for bans.
The thing to blame Blizzard for, it may be to keep a short number of cards in the expansions. But I understand its position, since is not nice to tell the players that they have to pay more or they will have fewer chances to get the cards they are eager of. Nevertheless, my feeling is that Blizzard is aware of the problem and it is increasing the number of cards through the single player quest.
Finally, my opinion here is that everyone, including myself, should care more about to beat the tier 1 decks and less in whining, and spend time in enjoy to play the game that we love. The whole community should face the game a more mature game.
A HS player.
Thank you for this post. There are so many times i want to post something like this and a few times that i have and it ends the same way every time. A bunch of trolls who would rather sit on this site and jump down peoples throats for expressing their opinions rather than adding any sort of constructive criticism or even deck help. I'm guilty of acting like a child when playing hearthstone sometimes when i go on a nice 5+ win streak and then go on a losing streak. At that moment i'd rather a) blame my opponent for getting lucky or b) blame decks or specific cards for being OP or autopilot. I truly wish this community was less toxic and more mature but i'm not sure that can or will happen.
I fully agree with your points. The danger face is, that the community gets so used to the nerfs, they will never decrease, due to a specific mentality trained in this process, and my feeling is that little by little we are getting at that point.
Because that's what we are!!! If you don't like the community, ignore it, we aren't going to change just because of you. ;)
I need to change myself.....as well... :-)
We don't need to change, we are fine the way we are. Thank you!!!
Wow. That escalated quickly.
In terms of what OP suggests: I do understand that. I've started around Naxx so I don't really care whether I lose dust with incoming nerfs. I do understand the necessity of nerfs, when certain stuff becomes oppressive (or "I'm In Charge!"), that's probably only way of fixing it.
I just don't feel like nerfs should be the answer to everything. It has become the only way the so-called "HS community" sees as the solution. The more often Blizzard will nerf cards, more cards will become nearly unplayable. It should be in really rare cases that Blizzard should intervene. And I think that the secret lies in printing answers in the next set (like what they did with Jades and Skulking Geist or printing Hecklebot instead of Dirty Rat).
I just feel that people do not realise the impact of the nerfs as the "we need a nerf" posts multiply. Just because a card is powerful doesn't mean its unfair. Just an opinion. Do not crucify me like you did the OP please.
True. don't need to change...just saying. I just ask for the cause.... I am a curious man.
your title reads "why does the hearthstone community behave as a selfish child?" I Italicized some of the text to emphasize my point. you ask why a community of people, behaves as a singular person. this is dumb, the hearthstone 'community' is not one mind, but it is a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions. so when people complain that the hearthstone community is never happy, then that is because there will always be someone in this vast ocean of players who is not happy with the way things are.
it is always the most negative people who shout the loudest, so it will seem like the hearthstone community is a bunch of suckers who play a game they hate. it is the same if you watch the news, they only ever talk about bad things happening, so of course watching the news makes the world seem dark, and violent.
if you were to see eleven threads over 2 days asking for nerfs for eight different cards then you would call the entire community a selfish child. but when you think about it, that is only eleven people, there are still over a hundred hearthpwn users who have said nothing bad about the game. but you would still call those people selfish children because you only see the bad part.
you compare the hearthstone community to the Magic community, and this is where your post gets really bad, because the Hearthstone community is made up of regular people, think of someone you work with, or maybe a good friend of yours, that person could just as easily be a Magic player as a Hearthstone player. I don't understand why you would think that this one game attracts more whinny people than this other similar game. I personally play both Magic and Hearthstone, and I do not complain about any cards or decks on either games. and I imagine that a lot of other users on this site can say the same thing.
the hearthstone community does not behave like a selfish child, that is just impossible because there are so many different people in this community. I am just boggled at why you think your post makes sense.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
Nerfs more frequently are a good thing, it keeps things fresh in a game that otherwise grows stagnant very quickly.
And it doesn't require much intelligence to realize that rogue is overpowered. There's no need to wait and collect more evidence, it was clear from the start that rogue will require some tuning.
One thing is overpowered, and another thing is unbeatable, there is always decks that are better than others, the point is:
Cannot we wait until the next expansion?, is it the game unplayable due to Rogue?
Point by point:
1) A group of people CAN behave as a individual, there a whole branch of social science that studies this behaviour, it is called Sociology. The point of my whole post is exactly , why the group of individuals that plays HS it became to behaves mostly as one child asking constantly for nerfs. If this would be a opinion of a few of the individuals, that's just fine, but this is not the case, in my view.
2) I agree the most negative people shoput the loudest. However, that is not the case, from almost all different kind of HS players started to ask for nerfs just days after the expansion came up.
3) Finally, MTG and HS are very different games nerfwise, there are not similar at all. MTG hardly would nerf a card in MTG Arena due to that would make strongly diverge the digital and paper game. However this is in the very nature of HS that is digital game only.
The thing is that not all of the nerfs demanded by players are as legitimate as other suggestions.
I mean pick ax is a very common one I see, despite everyone and their brother having access to 2 common quality 2 mana oozes (oh no! the 2 mana 'tempo loss'!). Not to mention the really dumb idea to nerf practically every single rogue card at once as opposed to nerfing one card and testing how the change does at tuning the deck.
Blizzard sure doesn't get things 100% right, but if you think the players do any better you are certainly wrong.
I said "at least a few" cards need tuning, I didn't say every single nerf that every single player wants should be put into effect. Middle ground please.
Most of the replies here are only proving the OP's point.
^^^ This! That last part! Can't say how many times I've started typing a response to someone on these forums or other social media and stop to think, "This isn't helping the conversation is it?" And if I feel like it's just whining, insulting, etc, as opposed to being helpful I delete what I was typing. Online forums and social media as a whole could benefit from more of that. (Now I sound like the pompous jerk!)
But for real, to answer the underlying question of the OP: I feel that in many cases people who want to play a specific class or deck/deck type will become upset when what they are trying to play is easy beat by Class X, or Cards A, B, and C. They will then complain that X, A, B, and C need to be nerfed so the aren't disadvantaged against those classes. I could be wrong though.
Sure, and I understand, that feeling, I even thing that this should be taken in consideration by Blizzard. Actually, it does (not always successfully), the point is that every class cannot be playable after every single expansion so sometimes you have to wait to your favorite class to be playable again. Blizzard clearly tries to switch on and off the classes after every expansion to fulfill everyone's desires
I could be remembering it wrong, but I do believe there was an interview with Ben Brode a while back where he basically said it was very difficult to balance all 9 classes at once, and they were happy having 3-4 on top even if it meant a couple were pretty much dead. So they would adjust this by making stronger cards for weaker classes and weaker cards for higher classes.
Their way of thinking has seemingly changed to try and keep every class with at least one viable archetype, however, I don't doubt that they continue to make strong cards for weak classes, and weak cards for strong classes to try and balance things or just shake things up. It may not always work out as intended, but it may at least result in a change.
Personally, the only nerf I think could be deserved is with Walking Fountain, but not because it's ruling the meta. Mostly because it's a common card you can have two of in your deck that is, in my opinion, better than a legendary like Al'Akir the Windlord. A small mana increase to 9 or a stat change to 3/6 or 3/7 would be good. But again, it's a possible nerf, but not a necessity.
Today If seen again a new thread about nerfing......of course.
Thank you for this post. There are so many times i want to post something like this and a few times that i have and it ends the same way every time. A bunch of trolls who would rather sit on this site and jump down peoples throats for expressing their opinions rather than adding any sort of constructive criticism or even deck help. I'm guilty of acting like a child when playing hearthstone sometimes when i go on a nice 5+ win streak and then go on a losing streak. At that moment i'd rather a) blame my opponent for getting lucky or b) blame decks or specific cards for being OP or autopilot. I truly wish this community was less toxic and more mature but i'm not sure that can or will happen.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
Ok got it, another thread about nerf. today and yesterday.
Divide et Impera == Gaming industry
They cannot stop laughing inside their 20 Mill. Dollar Villa
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