Did my eyes deceive me...did someone call Khadgar mage a control deck??? It's definitely more of a midrange deck...
The Conjurers Calling tech is only about 1/3 of a Mage deck, for the class in particular it is very common to pair multiple techs together to form a full deck. Its like calling a control Warrior, Bomb Warrior just because it uses some Mechs and Boom hero.
My control Mage that uses Mana Cyclone tech and Conjurer tech is pretty much always at 10 cards and i end up discarding Giants left and right because Mana Cyclone are to good at filling your hand. 2 Mana, draw 4 random spells and summon a 2/2 minion is pretty value with Elemental Invocation.
It's not really a tech it's kind the whole point of the deck. Tech is something you put in your deck to help a matchup and typically it's only 1-2 cards. If one third of your deck does a specific thing it's not tech. The deck plays very midrange. This can even be seen in the matchups it's favored and unfavored against. Throwing some removal in your deck doesn't make it a control deck. By that logic my Oblivitron hunter deck is a control deck because I run 2x spider bomb, 2x marked shot, 2x wing blast, and the unleash the beast. Hell half of the deck is centered around removal, but it's a midrange deck.
What i was trying to say was that Conjurers Calling is such a powerful card that most Mage decks no matter their typing wants to run the combo due to how good the class is at filling up its hand due to Mana Cyclone or Book of Secrets.
Except the fact that Book of Spectres and Conjurer's Calling are two of the most anti-synergetic cards we've ever seen... the number of times I've seen the opponent play the Bok only to discard one or two important cards is quite funny (especially now they are also trying to run other spells in the deck to compensate the mirror match etc)
Wouldn't that just highlight the strength of these cards? That it is worth the risk to run them both? I have both seen me bite in the ass and I have seen it won me the game on turn 5.
Did my eyes deceive me...did someone call Khadgar mage a control deck??? It's definitely more of a midrange deck...
The Conjurers Calling tech is only about 1/3 of a Mage deck, for the class in particular it is very common to pair multiple techs together to form a full deck. Its like calling a control Warrior, Bomb Warrior just because it uses some Mechs and Boom hero.
My control Mage that uses Mana Cyclone tech and Conjurer tech is pretty much always at 10 cards and i end up discarding Giants left and right because Mana Cyclone are to good at filling your hand. 2 Mana, draw 4 random spells and summon a 2/2 minion is pretty value with Elemental Invocation.
It's not really a tech it's kind the whole point of the deck. Tech is something you put in your deck to help a matchup and typically it's only 1-2 cards. If one third of your deck does a specific thing it's not tech. The deck plays very midrange. This can even be seen in the matchups it's favored and unfavored against. Throwing some removal in your deck doesn't make it a control deck. By that logic my Oblivitron hunter deck is a control deck because I run 2x spider bomb, 2x marked shot, 2x wing blast, and the unleash the beast. Hell half of the deck is centered around removal, but it's a midrange deck.
What i was trying to say was that Conjurers Calling is such a powerful card that most Mage decks no matter their typing wants to run the combo due to how good the class is at filling up its hand due to Mana Cyclone or Book of Secrets.
Except the fact that Book of Spectres and Conjurer's Calling are two of the most anti-synergetic cards we've ever seen... the number of times I've seen the opponent play the Bok only to discard one or two important cards is quite funny (especially now they are also trying to run other spells in the deck to compensate the mirror match etc)
Wouldn't that just highlight the strength of these cards? That it is worth the risk to run them both? I have both seen me bite in the ass and I have seen it won me the game on turn 5.
Perhaps, perhaps not. With a lot of high power cards, they can often come with an associated risk involved (whether that is by design or synergy etc). That's not to say these cards aren't powerful, they certainly are - though I believe the anti-synergy between them is actually what makes them very well balanced in fact.
Completely agreed. Mountain Giant is the punish for not playing an aggro deck, and in certain classes, you straight up do not have removal on turn 3 or 4 for an 8/8.
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I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
T3 8/8 is punished by midrange decks?
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I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
T3 8/8 is punished by midrange decks?
yes, unless you think mech hunter isn't a midrange deck.
And by the way it's not "turn 3 8/8" that is punished, it's skip turn 1 2 and 3 (if not on coin) that is punished.
I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
T3 8/8 is punished by midrange decks?
yes, unless you think mech hunter isn't a midrange deck.
And by the way it's not "turn 3 8/8" that is punished, it's skip turn 1 2 and 3 (if not on coin) that is punished.
So unless you're an aggro deck or playing a deck that can remove a T3 8/8, Mountain Giant is fine and fuck you?
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I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
T3 8/8 is punished by midrange decks?
yes, unless you think mech hunter isn't a midrange deck.
And by the way it's not "turn 3 8/8" that is punished, it's skip turn 1 2 and 3 (if not on coin) that is punished.
So unless you're an aggro deck or playing a deck that can remove a T3 8/8, Mountain Giant is fine and fuck you?
Yes.
If you can't deal with a 8/8 on your turn 4 against a deck that played nothing the previous turns, then it's either variance (not drawing what you need happens) or your fault for being greedy.
Especialy since T3 8/8 isn't that common, considering that the mage needs to be on the coin, play book of shadows on 2, and also draw a mountain giant while not discarding one of the few spells in his deck. (the other book/ the 3 mana twinspell).
wow. That is an absurd stance. Not being aggro or not having removal for T3/T4 double what you should be able to put out in stats = greedy?
Maybe its time for me to quit hearthstone if this is the attitude we're on now. Greed = can't remove T4 Mountain Giant.
Here I thought I was being greedy by playing more than one minion that costs 8 mana. Turns out, I'm being greedy merely by not picking Warrior or Hunter.
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wow. That is an absurd stance. Not being aggro or not having removal for T3/T4 double what you should be able to put out in stats = greedy?
Maybe its time for me to quit hearthstone if this is the attitude we're on now. Greed = can't remove T4 Mountain Giant.
Here I thought I was being greedy by playing more than one minion that costs 8 mana. Turns out, I'm being greedy merely by not picking Warrior or Hunter.
What are you talking about? Shaman, Priest and mage can do it too.
paladin can't (blame equality nerf), but they have ways to solve the problem with stuff like humility aldor and shrink ray (which is less than optimal unfortunately, because of the twinspell)
Warlock used to be able to, but they lost most of their tools and blizzard chose to leave that blindspot untouched.
And as far as I'm concerned, naturalized should never been Hofed, and Blizzard seems to be fine to leave as "weaknesses" things that should exist in the core set of every class.
Also if you can stall one turn with doomsayer, every class has access to BGH. that's also an option.
This is no different than Evenlock. There are plenty of decks that will punish you by turn 4, and that's always been a part of Hearthstone. Plenty of cards to stop it.
Taunt. Hard Removal.
Or my favorite. Tinkmaster Overspark.
you could even run emperor cobra. And that's a cheap rare card.
wow. That is an absurd stance. Not being aggro or not having removal for T3/T4 double what you should be able to put out in stats = greedy?
Maybe its time for me to quit hearthstone if this is the attitude we're on now. Greed = can't remove T4 Mountain Giant.
Here I thought I was being greedy by playing more than one minion that costs 8 mana. Turns out, I'm being greedy merely by not picking Warrior or Hunter.
Conjurer Mage is not an oppressive deck. Mountain Giant is not an oppressive card.
That's 100% bullshit. Wow.
In general all giants are stupid. HS doesnt really like balance. Each expansion they go further and further into cheat out big shit for free play. The most used deck this expansion doesnt even bother with board presence, they put the damage directly into your deck so you dont have to waste precious thoughts trying to react and win. Pretty thoughtful of them tbh.
Mountain Giant is "Oppressive".... Lol Now i've heard everything. Wow...
Apparently, Underbelly Angler really grinds his gears too or any card that he loses to for the matter, lol.
Priest has two cards to deal with an early Giant, and no more Shadow Visions to tutor it out. Priest is also unplayable right now.
Emperor Cobra? Fucking lol. Emperor Cobra can be removed and/or ignored, or protected. It doesn't have taunt or rush/charge.
Doomsayer? That is not hard removal; it's a 2-mana delay the inevitable and hope to draw your removal next turn.
Tinkmaster is a 1x.
And the meta is certainly slow enough now that you aren't really punished for doing nothing for three turns; it's not unreasonable to throw double Mountain Giant into any non aggro deck.
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wow. That is an absurd stance. Not being aggro or not having removal for T3/T4 double what you should be able to put out in stats = greedy?
Maybe its time for me to quit hearthstone if this is the attitude we're on now. Greed = can't remove T4 Mountain Giant.
Here I thought I was being greedy by playing more than one minion that costs 8 mana. Turns out, I'm being greedy merely by not picking Warrior or Hunter.
I agree. Ridiculous.
It's really not. Pretty much every aggro deck can deal with an 8/8 on turn 3/4. Midrange decks have a host of tools to manage it. Control decks just laugh at it. You have to understand the conditions that have to be met for you to get a T3/4 giant, you are very very open. You do realize you're complaining about a deck that pretty much only works consistently against control decks right? Even then it's not the T3/4 8/8 that breaks their back.
Wouldn't that just highlight the strength of these cards? That it is worth the risk to run them both? I have both seen me bite in the ass and I have seen it won me the game on turn 5.
Perhaps, perhaps not. With a lot of high power cards, they can often come with an associated risk involved (whether that is by design or synergy etc). That's not to say these cards aren't powerful, they certainly are - though I believe the anti-synergy between them is actually what makes them very well balanced in fact.
Completely agreed. Mountain Giant is the punish for not playing an aggro deck, and in certain classes, you straight up do not have removal on turn 3 or 4 for an 8/8.
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I think Mountain giant is fine, there's a huge risk in focusing in filling your hand to play it on turn 3-4, and you can easily be punished for it against agressive and midrange decks.
Even if it drops on 3 most decks have an answer, wether it's SW death, execute, polymorph, hex, sap, walk the plank, deadly shot,hunter's mark.
The game survived unconditional 4 mana 7/7, I don't think a 4 mana 8/8 that usualy forces you to draw cards instead of developping the board is a problem.
there are a lot of card i'd Hof before mountain giant (including sea giant believe it or not). (not that I think sea giant need to be HoF either, mind you)
It would make mage tier 4 or less. So not yet.
T3 8/8 is punished by midrange decks?
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yes, unless you think mech hunter isn't a midrange deck.
And by the way it's not "turn 3 8/8" that is punished, it's skip turn 1 2 and 3 (if not on coin) that is punished.
So unless you're an aggro deck or playing a deck that can remove a T3 8/8, Mountain Giant is fine and fuck you?
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Yes.
If you can't deal with a 8/8 on your turn 4 against a deck that played nothing the previous turns, then it's either variance (not drawing what you need happens) or your fault for being greedy.
Especialy since T3 8/8 isn't that common, considering that the mage needs to be on the coin, play book of shadows on 2, and also draw a mountain giant while not discarding one of the few spells in his deck. (the other book/ the 3 mana twinspell).
wow. That is an absurd stance. Not being aggro or not having removal for T3/T4 double what you should be able to put out in stats = greedy?
Maybe its time for me to quit hearthstone if this is the attitude we're on now. Greed = can't remove T4 Mountain Giant.
Here I thought I was being greedy by playing more than one minion that costs 8 mana. Turns out, I'm being greedy merely by not picking Warrior or Hunter.
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What are you talking about? Shaman, Priest and mage can do it too.
paladin can't (blame equality nerf), but they have ways to solve the problem with stuff like humility aldor and shrink ray (which is less than optimal unfortunately, because of the twinspell)
Warlock used to be able to, but they lost most of their tools and blizzard chose to leave that blindspot untouched.
And as far as I'm concerned, naturalized should never been Hofed, and Blizzard seems to be fine to leave as "weaknesses" things that should exist in the core set of every class.
Also if you can stall one turn with doomsayer, every class has access to BGH. that's also an option.
This is no different than Evenlock. There are plenty of decks that will punish you by turn 4, and that's always been a part of Hearthstone. Plenty of cards to stop it.
Taunt. Hard Removal.
Or my favorite. Tinkmaster Overspark.
you could even run emperor cobra. And that's a cheap rare card.
Why is it you think it's so hard to stop?
4 pages for such a thread is unbelievable.
Him and Sea Giant can go.
I agree. Ridiculous.
Apparently, Underbelly Angler really grinds his gears too or any card that he loses to for the matter, lol.
Priest has two cards to deal with an early Giant, and no more Shadow Visions to tutor it out. Priest is also unplayable right now.
Emperor Cobra? Fucking lol. Emperor Cobra can be removed and/or ignored, or protected. It doesn't have taunt or rush/charge.
Doomsayer? That is not hard removal; it's a 2-mana delay the inevitable and hope to draw your removal next turn.
Tinkmaster is a 1x.
And the meta is certainly slow enough now that you aren't really punished for doing nothing for three turns; it's not unreasonable to throw double Mountain Giant into any non aggro deck.
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It's really not. Pretty much every aggro deck can deal with an 8/8 on turn 3/4. Midrange decks have a host of tools to manage it. Control decks just laugh at it. You have to understand the conditions that have to be met for you to get a T3/4 giant, you are very very open. You do realize you're complaining about a deck that pretty much only works consistently against control decks right? Even then it's not the T3/4 8/8 that breaks their back.
Go ahead then, tell us how it worls out for you, I have some serious doubts on this statement alone.
Card is fine but I would totally see it HOF with Malygos and maybe Leeroy.