Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Whoa you based your conclusion on two whole games? Amazing.
Hsreplay on the other hand, says that zoolock has a 45.1% winrate against tempo rogue based on 180.000 games.
Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Whoa you based your conclusion on two whole games? Amazing.
Hsreplay on the other hand, says that zoolock has a 45.1% winrate against tempo rogue based on 180.000 games.
Not on that at all. Just for your information, I´m playing rogue a very long time now and also I know that it isn´t that easy than some noobs here in forum think it is. Just read the posts here. I gave you some examples and I can give some more. Besides that, if you had watched the HCT further, rogue also was beaten by mage. It isn´t that good as you think, cause you lost a few games against. You have to know how to play it right. Just watch some games or play some games by yourself and you will see how often you just can quit your turn and doing nothing or too less, cause of nothing playable on hand.
Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Whoa you based your conclusion on two whole games? Amazing.
Hsreplay on the other hand, says that zoolock has a 45.1% winrate against tempo rogue based on 180.000 games.
Not on that at all. Just for your information, I´m playing rogue a very long time now and also I know that it isn´t that easy than some noobs here in forum think it is. Just read the posts here. I gave you some examples and I can give some more. Besides that, if you had watched the HCT further, rogue also was beaten by mage. It isn´t that good as you think, cause you lost a few games against. You have to know how to play it right. Just watch some games or play some games by yourself and you will see how often you just can quit your turn and doing nothing or too less, cause of nothing playable on hand.
If you've been playing for a very long time like you claim then surely you'd understand how percentages work, right? I can give examples why Rogue is stronger than zoolock too. What's your point?
You can paint scenarios all you want. Matter of fact is that Rogue is extremely strong right now and, most likely, too strong.
Prep and Leeroy are the only cards I can see getting nerfed realistically. Leeroy is just too good in Rogue and Prep is potentially 50% better than innervate was before getting hit by the nerf hammer.
That said I don't think rogue's a serious issue right now, not in the way the top decks of the past 2 years or so were. I think those cards' days are probably numbered just because they limit design space but it's nowhere near as bad as the first post makes it out to be (yet) and for the first time in years I'm actually optimistic Team 5 will step in before people do get burned out over it.
Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Whoa you based your conclusion on two whole games? Amazing.
Hsreplay on the other hand, says that zoolock has a 45.1% winrate against tempo rogue based on 180.000 games.
Not on that at all. Just for your information, I´m playing rogue a very long time now and also I know that it isn´t that easy than some noobs here in forum think it is. Just read the posts here. I gave you some examples and I can give some more. Besides that, if you had watched the HCT further, rogue also was beaten by mage. It isn´t that good as you think, cause you lost a few games against. You have to know how to play it right. Just watch some games or play some games by yourself and you will see how often you just can quit your turn and doing nothing or too less, cause of nothing playable on hand.
If you've been playing for a very long time like you claim then surely you'd understand how percentages work, right? I can give examples why Rogue is stronger than zoolock too. What's your point?
You can paint scenarios all you want. Matter of fact is that Rogue is extremely strong right now and, most likely, too strong.
I really don´t know what your problem is. We had a time where Warrior was extremly good (PW!) and he still is atm. We also had Shamanstone, Druidstone, Hunterstone,....
Some get nerfed, some not (UI, Spreading Plague). Anyway, we had to come along with and we did.
My point is that it isnt that difficult winning against rogue (or any other class) if you playing good and know how to play around. For sure there are some matchups where you can concede directly. But it was always like this and it will always be. Btw personally I don´t think that all of these statistics really represent the game and the gamesituation. It´s just a orientation and can vary day by day depents on what people playing, how good they are playing and how lucky they are. It´s just a number. Not more.
Nerf Preparation and most combo cards and big spells like Sprint will be basically dead cards. The only card that needs nerf in rogue's pool is Raiding party, which can get you 3 very precise cards from your deck that actually synergize perfectly together (Waggle pick and 2 0 mana 3/3 taunt pirates).
So they will nerf rogue just to let the warrior be the 70 % of the meta? I have seen a lot of broken decks from the beginning of hs and tempo rogue is not one of them.. Stop whining about everything
I really don´t know what your problem is. We had a time where Warrior was extremly good (PW!) and he still is atm. We also had Shamanstone, Druidstone, Hunterstone,....
Some get nerfed, some not (UI, Spreading Plague). Anyway, we had to come along with and we did.
My point is that it isnt that difficult winning against rogue (or any other class) if you playing good and know how to play around. For sure there are some matchups where you can concede directly. But it was always like this and it will always be. Btw personally I don´t think that all of these statistics really represent the game and the gamesituation. It´s just a orientation and can vary day by day depents on what people playing, how good they are playing and how lucky they are. It´s just a number. Not more.
My problem is you being incapable of providing an actual argument as to why you're apparently opposed to rogue getting nerfed.
We had pirate warrior yes, and that deck got nerfed. We had druidstone yes, and druid got nerfed, several times (spreading plague used to cost 5 mana, which you seemed to have forgotten). We had shamanstone, yes, and shaman got nerfed. We had hunterstone, yes, and hunter got nerfed. And now it's rogue's time.
You think that statistics don't represent the game, yet your initial statement started with you using a whopping two!1! games as reference why rogue isn't overpowered. Get real.
Rogue is the reason i stopped playing this game lol
I said the same thing about Druid's during KotFT...difference is that actually was the definition of oppressive, it's only minorly oppressive now but people seemingly can't handle anything now.
To reiterate earlier points, if you honestly think Prep should get nerfed, you have no idea how Rogue is designed and balanced. At all, no exaggeration, you have no idea what you're talking about. My only fear is they listen to these ignorant malcontents and levy an unncecessary deathknell to Rogue.
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Funny enough, the only card that really deserves a nerf is their Raiding Party and Vendetta. The rest are perfectly fine. Vendetta getting discounted from 4 to 1 instead of 0 would bring it in line with Hunter's Wing Blast and whatever that 4-mana Elemental Mage spell is that no one sees ever. It costing 0 is egregious and makes combos and huge tempo swings a bit too easy.
Same with Raiding Party. How does one, in any context, permit Raiding Party as a play on 3 when Prep discounts 3 meaning you can tutor your pirates and a weapon FOR FREE and Sprint by comparison draws 1 more card but costs a whopping 7? This enables the most broken turn 2 in Standard: Coin Prep Raiding Party 8/8 Van Cleef.
Nerfing either of these cards would be a pretty big deal, especially Raiding Party - likely they'll only nerf Vendetta. However, it'll be a shame if an egregious card like Raiding Party is what convinces them to take the nerf bat to more Classic and Basic cards.
I really don´t know what your problem is. We had a time where Warrior was extremly good (PW!) and he still is atm. We also had Shamanstone, Druidstone, Hunterstone,....
Some get nerfed, some not (UI, Spreading Plague). Anyway, we had to come along with and we did.
My point is that it isnt that difficult winning against rogue (or any other class) if you playing good and know how to play around. For sure there are some matchups where you can concede directly. But it was always like this and it will always be. Btw personally I don´t think that all of these statistics really represent the game and the gamesituation. It´s just a orientation and can vary day by day depents on what people playing, how good they are playing and how lucky they are. It´s just a number. Not more.
My problem is you being incapable of providing an actual argument as to why you're apparently opposed to rogue getting nerfed.
We had pirate warrior yes, and that deck got nerfed. We had druidstone yes, and druid got nerfed, several times (spreading plague used to cost 5 mana, which you seemed to have forgotten). We had shamanstone, yes, and shaman got nerfed. We had hunterstone, yes, and hunter got nerfed. And now it's rogue's time.
You think that statistics don't represent the game, yet your initial statement started with you using a whopping two!1! games as reference why rogue isn't overpowered. Get real.
You have your opinion and I have mine. We don´t come together at this point and I´m glad about. I´m sad and sick of all these crybabies just screaming for nerfs in the first weeks of a new meta. Just be a little bit patient. If there will no change come after a few weeks and rogue really would be dominate meta that extremely, may a nerf will be justified then. There´s nothing to say against. I´m fair at this point. But not in first few weeks! Thats a little bit to hasty imo.
Warrior shits on Rogue, so it has an extremely hard counter. Just take this to the salt thread where it belongs.
Dibbity don't touch that!
Did you watched HCT World Championship a few minutes ago (A83650 vs. justsaiyan)?
Rogue had absolutely no chance against Zoolock. One game justsaiyan played zoo while A83650 played rogue and one game the other way around. Everytime the zoolock won the game. Also there were turns where the rogueplayer can´t do absolutely nothing, cause of no playable card on hand.
So now tell me again how terrible rogue is and only gets beaten by warrior.
Whoa you based your conclusion on two whole games? Amazing.
Hsreplay on the other hand, says that zoolock has a 45.1% winrate against tempo rogue based on 180.000 games.
Not on that at all. Just for your information, I´m playing rogue a very long time now and also I know that it isn´t that easy than some noobs here in forum think it is. Just read the posts here. I gave you some examples and I can give some more. Besides that, if you had watched the HCT further, rogue also was beaten by mage. It isn´t that good as you think, cause you lost a few games against. You have to know how to play it right. Just watch some games or play some games by yourself and you will see how often you just can quit your turn and doing nothing or too less, cause of nothing playable on hand.
Rogue is the reason i stopped playing this game lol
Leper Gnome
If you've been playing for a very long time like you claim then surely you'd understand how percentages work, right? I can give examples why Rogue is stronger than zoolock too. What's your point?
You can paint scenarios all you want. Matter of fact is that Rogue is extremely strong right now and, most likely, too strong.
it's time to HoF Sap
Prep and Leeroy are the only cards I can see getting nerfed realistically. Leeroy is just too good in Rogue and Prep is potentially 50% better than innervate was before getting hit by the nerf hammer.
That said I don't think rogue's a serious issue right now, not in the way the top decks of the past 2 years or so were. I think those cards' days are probably numbered just because they limit design space but it's nowhere near as bad as the first post makes it out to be (yet) and for the first time in years I'm actually optimistic Team 5 will step in before people do get burned out over it.
I really don´t know what your problem is. We had a time where Warrior was extremly good (PW!) and he still is atm. We also had Shamanstone, Druidstone, Hunterstone,....
Some get nerfed, some not (UI, Spreading Plague). Anyway, we had to come along with and we did.
My point is that it isnt that difficult winning against rogue (or any other class) if you playing good and know how to play around. For sure there are some matchups where you can concede directly. But it was always like this and it will always be. Btw personally I don´t think that all of these statistics really represent the game and the gamesituation. It´s just a orientation and can vary day by day depents on what people playing, how good they are playing and how lucky they are. It´s just a number. Not more.
Nerf Preparation and most combo cards and big spells like Sprint will be basically dead cards. The only card that needs nerf in rogue's pool is Raiding party, which can get you 3 very precise cards from your deck that actually synergize perfectly together (Waggle pick and 2 0 mana 3/3 taunt pirates).
prep should reduce the cost by 2 and not 3
So they will nerf rogue just to let the warrior be the 70 % of the meta? I have seen a lot of broken decks from the beginning of hs and tempo rogue is not one of them.. Stop whining about everything
Lol, look at the data. Rogue has a 53% winrate at ranks that matter.
I get it though, you're salty. Rogue needs a nerf because it has a decent winrate, but the decks with higher winrates are fine.
Way to completely misinterpret the data! Thumbs up!
I almost said this earlier but didn't. Sap is low-key the reason why Rogue can beat any of the other midrange decks that would otherwise challenge it.
My problem is you being incapable of providing an actual argument as to why you're apparently opposed to rogue getting nerfed.
We had pirate warrior yes, and that deck got nerfed. We had druidstone yes, and druid got nerfed, several times (spreading plague used to cost 5 mana, which you seemed to have forgotten). We had shamanstone, yes, and shaman got nerfed. We had hunterstone, yes, and hunter got nerfed. And now it's rogue's time.
You think that statistics don't represent the game, yet your initial statement started with you using a whopping two!1! games as reference why rogue isn't overpowered. Get real.
I think this would be fair.
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I said the same thing about Druid's during KotFT...difference is that actually was the definition of oppressive, it's only minorly oppressive now but people seemingly can't handle anything now.
To reiterate earlier points, if you honestly think Prep should get nerfed, you have no idea how Rogue is designed and balanced. At all, no exaggeration, you have no idea what you're talking about. My only fear is they listen to these ignorant malcontents and levy an unncecessary deathknell to Rogue.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Funny enough, the only card that really deserves a nerf is their Raiding Party and Vendetta. The rest are perfectly fine. Vendetta getting discounted from 4 to 1 instead of 0 would bring it in line with Hunter's Wing Blast and whatever that 4-mana Elemental Mage spell is that no one sees ever. It costing 0 is egregious and makes combos and huge tempo swings a bit too easy.
Same with Raiding Party. How does one, in any context, permit Raiding Party as a play on 3 when Prep discounts 3 meaning you can tutor your pirates and a weapon FOR FREE and Sprint by comparison draws 1 more card but costs a whopping 7? This enables the most broken turn 2 in Standard: Coin Prep Raiding Party 8/8 Van Cleef.
Nerfing either of these cards would be a pretty big deal, especially Raiding Party - likely they'll only nerf Vendetta. However, it'll be a shame if an egregious card like Raiding Party is what convinces them to take the nerf bat to more Classic and Basic cards.
You have your opinion and I have mine. We don´t come together at this point and I´m glad about. I´m sad and sick of all these crybabies just screaming for nerfs in the first weeks of a new meta. Just be a little bit patient. If there will no change come after a few weeks and rogue really would be dominate meta that extremely, may a nerf will be justified then. There´s nothing to say against. I´m fair at this point. But not in first few weeks! Thats a little bit to hasty imo.