I rest my case. Negativity will always prevail, and not for the sake of pushing things forward and for constructive dialogue, but for itself.
There you are mistaken.
Like, I have not faced (real life) so much negative people who prove my point.Guess, I have.
Make a distinction between those who are negative for a living and those who are critical for the embetterment; don't accept mindlessness to be the status quo. I have defined mindlessness. Loving the game is only possible if critical about current divisive target audience card design. The next expansion: different cards, same mindlessness. Read my lips.The past confirmed unmistakenly.
It's not abourt negativity, It's not that I like being negative about the game it's just that I hate those periods of time when the game is stale and this year was full of disappointment.
The last 2 expansions main feature failed hard.
Spirit cards see no play whatsoever, The only 2 Loas seeing play are mage and paladin.
Magnetic failed hard the only 2 cards that are currently being played is Zilliax(because it's overloaded with stuff) and Spider Bomb(Which is also stronger than average in utility) the rest of the magnetic cards just saw no play.
Guess we will see how the game will look post rotation but we still have 2 infinite value cards in the game with hagatha and dr. boom.
Finally some light in the darkness of responses.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
And for those who wonder what mindlessness is, here's the definition: mindlessness is the ability to do damage out of hand.
The sheer amount of burn, buff, chargers, weapon, summon in the game is that unbalanced that mindlessness is the only top tier strategy to close games successfully.
People don't realize that a totally different legend player would occur if there were less mindlessness in the game. The type of legend players are just a reflection of cards being handled well.
That's...weird. First you critisize me as a bad player and then as a good one for being legend? Im confused.
Lots of people play control. LOTS. I've faced 3 warriors in a row in top 200. My match-ups yesterday were literally 2 hunters,5 priests (3 of them purely control),1 zoo deck and 2 warriors. And that was just yesterday.
Anyway,you seem toxic against the game and its practises. I get where you're coming from but personally, i think blizzard will try to save the game and make it fun again. Everyone's acting like card games dont get so stale easily. But which of you guys play casual? Not many,at least not the long-time players. We're playing because we're competitive and we wanna win. If i wanted to win,i wouldnt bring a ''fun'' deck with a 20% winrate. If it's fun for me tho but it also gets me a 70% i'll play it.
Do we take a lot of bullshit from blizzard? We do. Do we want/need a better game? we do.
When witchwood hit,i was excited. When face hunter finally died out,i was really happy. Back then,people were hating the game left and right. Every game gets boring if you play it long enough. HS has small interaction and generally is based on luck and strategy. It is only logical not to be able to keep up after a while. Money wise,it's stupidly expensive and i get why f2p might hate the huge grind you have to go through.
As one guy in here said :
''Roration will decide if i stay or completely quit the game''. I stand by that. Im hopeful that rotation will kill netdecking for at least 2 months. I have already thought of 5 decks i will play after rotation. And then,when rexxar and jaina wont be there to win the game singlehanded, fun will be back. Blizzard might as well print something REALLY stupid and just cut the playerbase in half. Im hopeful,rotation will save the game. If it doesnt, then its the end even for the best players in the game.
People don't realize that a totally different legend player would occur if there were less mindlessness in the game. The type of legend players are just a reflection of cards being handled well.
No we will still get legend every month with or without burst in the game lol.
My problem with hearthstone is that I want to love the game, but really can’t. I guess most people here who found the time to post on this thread, are feeling pretty much the same (excluding the “everything is fine” kind of people).
I have high hopes for the upcoming rotation. If the things won’t change after it, I’m afraid it’ll be a fatal blow to the game.
In my opinion the biggest issue is that the current meta has tow major build around cards:gen and baku. Either these cards should be in less decks via some changes or they should make those cards accesible. Most casual players dont want to invest in a set from over a year ago for the chance of getting those 2 legends. Crafting them is fine but casual players want to craft cool fun cards and not ones that feel standard.
Either those 2 legends should be nerfed or made more accesible for everyone. These feel like reno, and reno had an accesible price point in a fun adventure. Like reno, if you dont have the respective gen or baku you cant even play a budget version of the deck...
Another issue is that the current combo decks are super unfun to lose against. In the past losing to savage roar force of nature combo you could try and prepare here. The current combos you cannot prevent unless you are aggro. Just not fun for most casual players. None of my friends play anymore based on those 2 pieces of feedback.
Ummmm, I have to ask you if you really think that's true. What are the decks that use Genn and Baku? Odd warrior, odd paladin, even lock (which I never see anymore), odd rogue (which basically doesn't exist anymore), even paladin and shaman, odd mage. Odd hunter and even rogue are fringe decks. Now tell me that those are the most played decks? Maybe odd paladin, mage and warrior see high levels of play. The meta is shaped by hunter and priest, straight up. They are the most common decks I see, and virtually 40% of all games over the last day are played with those classes, that run no Genn or Baku decks besides odd hunter. Decks that do use Genn and Baku amount to about 30% over all classes that run one of those decks. I have yet to see an even shaman mirror in over 100 games this season. Only three classes use one of those decks as their most popular deck, and Genn is frankly nowhere. So you only need Baku, and you only need Baku if you want to play warrior, mage or paladin.
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
In my opinion the biggest issue is that the current meta has tow major build around cards:gen and baku. Either these cards should be in less decks via some changes or they should make those cards accesible. Most casual players dont want to invest in a set from over a year ago for the chance of getting those 2 legends. Crafting them is fine but casual players want to craft cool fun cards and not ones that feel standard.
Either those 2 legends should be nerfed or made more accesible for everyone. These feel like reno, and reno had an accesible price point in a fun adventure. Like reno, if you dont have the respective gen or baku you cant even play a budget version of the deck...
Another issue is that the current combo decks are super unfun to lose against. In the past losing to savage roar force of nature combo you could try and prepare here. The current combos you cannot prevent unless you are aggro. Just not fun for most casual players. None of my friends play anymore based on those 2 pieces of feedback.
Ummmm, I have to ask you if you really think that's true. What are the decks that use Genn and Baku? Odd warrior, odd paladin, even lock (which I never see anymore), odd rogue (which basically doesn't exist anymore), even paladin and shaman, odd mage. Odd hunter and even rogue are fringe decks. Now tell me that those are the most played decks? Maybe odd paladin, mage and warrior see high levels of play. The meta is shaped by hunter and priest, straight up. They are the most common decks I see, and virtually 40% of all games over the last day are played with those classes, that run no Genn or Baku decks besides odd hunter. Decks that do use Genn and Baku amount to about 30% over all classes that run one of those decks. I have yet to see an even shaman mirror in over 100 games this season. Only three classes use one of those decks as their most popular deck, and Genn is frankly nowhere. So you only need Baku, and you only need Baku if you want to play warrior, mage or paladin.
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
Weird. I'm not saying they don't impact the meta, 30% is plenty, but you don't have to play a odd / even deck to win. Secret paladin is effective, priest is effective, hunter is effective etc etc.
In my opinion the biggest issue is that the current meta has tow major build around cards:gen and baku. Either these cards should be in less decks via some changes or they should make those cards accesible. Most casual players dont want to invest in a set from over a year ago for the chance of getting those 2 legends. Crafting them is fine but casual players want to craft cool fun cards and not ones that feel standard.
Either those 2 legends should be nerfed or made more accesible for everyone. These feel like reno, and reno had an accesible price point in a fun adventure. Like reno, if you dont have the respective gen or baku you cant even play a budget version of the deck...
Another issue is that the current combo decks are super unfun to lose against. In the past losing to savage roar force of nature combo you could try and prepare here. The current combos you cannot prevent unless you are aggro. Just not fun for most casual players. None of my friends play anymore based on those 2 pieces of feedback.
Ummmm, I have to ask you if you really think that's true. What are the decks that use Genn and Baku? Odd warrior, odd paladin, even lock (which I never see anymore), odd rogue (which basically doesn't exist anymore), even paladin and shaman, odd mage. Odd hunter and even rogue are fringe decks. Now tell me that those are the most played decks? Maybe odd paladin, mage and warrior see high levels of play. The meta is shaped by hunter and priest, straight up. They are the most common decks I see, and virtually 40% of all games over the last day are played with those classes, that run no Genn or Baku decks besides odd hunter. Decks that do use Genn and Baku amount to about 30% over all classes that run one of those decks. I have yet to see an even shaman mirror in over 100 games this season. Only three classes use one of those decks as their most popular deck, and Genn is frankly nowhere. So you only need Baku, and you only need Baku if you want to play warrior, mage or paladin.
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
Weird. I'm not saying they don't impact the meta, 30% is plenty, but you don't have to play a odd / even deck to win. Secret paladin is effective, priest is effective, hunter is effective etc etc.
I am not arguing that those other decks are not effective, I never play genn or baku (I played some wild even shaman for a bit 2 months back, but other than that I don't use either). My point is that this is the "PERCEPTION" from the players who have quit (that i know of at least). The whole topic here is why people are leaving the game, and Dean Ayala asked about what they can do to help players who quit come back. My take is that the perception of two cards from the witchwood being powerful is what the issue is. It's actually more than that, it is that these cards are not just perceived to be powerful (and oftentimes have been the number one decks in the meta since inception), it's that you cannot even "try" to play any even or odd decks without that card. It is unfortunate for players who are not good at the game (which by the laws of statistics have to be the majority of the players), who feel that they have no chance based on this. The people I know who have left got extremely upset either losing to some crazy combo that spent 5 minutes one turn killing them at turn 8 without understanding what happened, or they got super frustrated that they faced 7 odd paladins in a row and they don't have a Genn or Baku to even try making those decks. So those players have all left over the last several months (and a month back or so the top decks were even and odd), and they just felt like it wasn't fun. My problem is not that the cards are good, or that you can't have fun or do well with other decks... it is instead that these cards feel like they lock out a portion of the game for newer players.
The main point of my argument here is this. For most casual players (which is the majority of hearthstone, and these are the players leaving the game the most), is that they are not enjoying the perception of what it takes to do well or have fun. It follows these points:
1) Genn and Baku are perceived to be in the most powerful decks (or have been at one point or another since they were released in the witchwood).
2) Genn and Baku are build around cards, you cannot build a budget even or odd deck without that card
3) Those cards are from the witchwood set, so they either have to invest in an old set for the odds of getting those cards (most players being casual, the odds are not great to get either of those since they prob only spend between 0 and 80 bucks a set or so).
4) Crafting these with dust feels bad, because most casual people prefer to craft cards that feel fun. Genn and Baku do not feel fun when you play them from your hand... you actually usually only play them from hand when your hand is empty or you have little to do as their statline and board presence is not good for the mana. The fun of the card is up front in the deck style at the start of the game... so the users who craft these instead feel like they "unlocked a style of deckbuilding" instead of crafting a fun card to play.
5) This was handled differently in the past. Other build around cards like C'thun was free and so everyone could try and build c'thun decks. Reno Jackson was super accessible in an adventure via at most 2400 gold, and at worst 25 dollars... Also those cards felt more "fun" when you played them. Justicar Truehart from the grand tournament was also a card that only felt impactful and fun the turn you played it (so crafting it was okay, since it wasn't a card that impacted the entire game play of the deck).
So to recap, the point here is not that the people who play this game a lot know you can do well with other decks. The point is not that these cards are not overpowered The point is not that these cards are not craft-able with dust so everyone can play. The point has nothing to do with anyone who is in any shape related to anyone who probably reads these forums. This argument applies to the majority of hearthstone who is either bad at the game, plays 30 minutes a day on the toilet or the train, or just casual people who don't read forums or watch streams or videos. The point is that the perception of what those 2 cards does, and how accessible they are, and how fun they are is something that IS driving players away (it HAS at a minimum driven 8 people I know away from the game... those arguments directly). The other 3 people I know who played this game were driven away from combo (and my argument on combo was not against it but was that combo decks in the past were less unfun feeling to play against than now... savage roar force of nature druid was only an 18 damage combo... topsy turvy priest is like 128 or something, mechathun combo animation happens so fast amateurs have no clue what just happened, etc)
I also would like to say that i don't think the majority of those who left hearthstone care about a tournament mode, or care about half the arguments people make here. The majority who have left I can guarantee probably only played 30 minutes to an hour a day, and instead just miss the casual fun they could have playing without feeling hopeless.
The only thing wrong with hearthstone are the people who play it. When 1 in 10 games is against someone who actually ENJOYS card games, instead of just dopamine hits from getting stuff... you know you have a problem.
In my opinion the biggest issue is that the current meta has tow major build around cards:gen and baku. Either these cards should be in less decks via some changes or they should make those cards accesible. Most casual players dont want to invest in a set from over a year ago for the chance of getting those 2 legends. Crafting them is fine but casual players want to craft cool fun cards and not ones that feel standard.
Either those 2 legends should be nerfed or made more accesible for everyone. These feel like reno, and reno had an accesible price point in a fun adventure. Like reno, if you dont have the respective gen or baku you cant even play a budget version of the deck...
Another issue is that the current combo decks are super unfun to lose against. In the past losing to savage roar force of nature combo you could try and prepare here. The current combos you cannot prevent unless you are aggro. Just not fun for most casual players. None of my friends play anymore based on those 2 pieces of feedback.
Ummmm, I have to ask you if you really think that's true. What are the decks that use Genn and Baku? Odd warrior, odd paladin, even lock (which I never see anymore), odd rogue (which basically doesn't exist anymore), even paladin and shaman, odd mage. Odd hunter and even rogue are fringe decks. Now tell me that those are the most played decks? Maybe odd paladin, mage and warrior see high levels of play. The meta is shaped by hunter and priest, straight up. They are the most common decks I see, and virtually 40% of all games over the last day are played with those classes, that run no Genn or Baku decks besides odd hunter. Decks that do use Genn and Baku amount to about 30% over all classes that run one of those decks. I have yet to see an even shaman mirror in over 100 games this season. Only three classes use one of those decks as their most popular deck, and Genn is frankly nowhere. So you only need Baku, and you only need Baku if you want to play warrior, mage or paladin.
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
Weird. I'm not saying they don't impact the meta, 30% is plenty, but you don't have to play a odd / even deck to win. Secret paladin is effective, priest is effective, hunter is effective etc etc.
I am not arguing that those other decks are not effective, I never play genn or baku (I played some wild even shaman for a bit 2 months back, but other than that I don't use either). My point is that this is the "PERCEPTION" from the players who have quit (that i know of at least). The whole topic here is why people are leaving the game, and Dean Ayala asked about what they can do to help players who quit come back. My take is that the perception of two cards from the witchwood being powerful is what the issue is. It's actually more than that, it is that these cards are not just perceived to be powerful (and oftentimes have been the number one decks in the meta since inception), it's that you cannot even "try" to play any even or odd decks without that card. It is unfortunate for players who are not good at the game (which by the laws of statistics have to be the majority of the players), who feel that they have no chance based on this. The people I know who have left got extremely upset either losing to some crazy combo that spent 5 minutes one turn killing them at turn 8 without understanding what happened, or they got super frustrated that they faced 7 odd paladins in a row and they don't have a Genn or Baku to even try making those decks. So those players have all left over the last several months (and a month back or so the top decks were even and odd), and they just felt like it wasn't fun. My problem is not that the cards are good, or that you can't have fun or do well with other decks... it is instead that these cards feel like they lock out a portion of the game for newer players.
The main point of my argument here is this. For most casual players (which is the majority of hearthstone, and these are the players leaving the game the most), is that they are not enjoying the perception of what it takes to do well or have fun. It follows these points:
1) Genn and Baku are perceived to be in the most powerful decks (or have been at one point or another since they were released in the witchwood).
2) Genn and Baku are build around cards, you cannot build a budget even or odd deck without that card
3) Those cards are from the witchwood set, so they either have to invest in an old set for the odds of getting those cards (most players being casual, the odds are not great to get either of those since they prob only spend between 0 and 80 bucks a set or so).
4) Crafting these with dust feels bad, because most casual people prefer to craft cards that feel fun. Genn and Baku do not feel fun when you play them from your hand... you actually usually only play them from hand when your hand is empty or you have little to do as their statline and board presence is not good for the mana. The fun of the card is up front in the deck style at the start of the game... so the users who craft these instead feel like they "unlocked a style of deckbuilding" instead of crafting a fun card to play.
5) This was handled differently in the past. Other build around cards like C'thun was free and so everyone could try and build c'thun decks. Reno Jackson was super accessible in an adventure via at most 2400 gold, and at worst 25 dollars... Also those cards felt more "fun" when you played them. Justicar Truehart from the grand tournament was also a card that only felt impactful and fun the turn you played it (so crafting it was okay, since it wasn't a card that impacted the entire game play of the deck).
So to recap, the point here is not that the people who play this game a lot know you can do well with other decks. The point is not that these cards are not overpowered The point is not that these cards are not craft-able with dust so everyone can play. The point has nothing to do with anyone who is in any shape related to anyone who probably reads these forums. This argument applies to the majority of hearthstone who is either bad at the game, plays 30 minutes a day on the toilet or the train, or just casual people who don't read forums or watch streams or videos. The point is that the perception of what those 2 cards does, and how accessible they are, and how fun they are is something that IS driving players away (it HAS at a minimum driven 8 people I know away from the game... those arguments directly). The other 3 people I know who played this game were driven away from combo (and my argument on combo was not against it but was that combo decks in the past were less unfun feeling to play against than now... savage roar force of nature druid was only an 18 damage combo... topsy turvy priest is like 128 or something, mechathun combo animation happens so fast amateurs have no clue what just happened, etc)
I also would like to say that i don't think the majority of those who left hearthstone care about a tournament mode, or care about half the arguments people make here. The majority who have left I can guarantee probably only played 30 minutes to an hour a day, and instead just miss the casual fun they could have playing without feeling hopeless.
Well, I guess people who feel that way were never gonna stick around long anyway. If I was F2P and I didn't want to craft an integral part of a deck I want to play because it's "not fun" and I'd rather craft something that "looks cool when I play it", then I dunno what to say. By that token, we should all get Bloodmage Thalnos for free, which doesn't do anything spectacular but has been an incredibly useful card for a variety of decks over the years. And yes I know it's not an integral card, but most decks require one or two legendaries, you're usually going to have to craft something sooner or later. If you see a Mechathun deck you like, you're gonna need Mechathun. If you see a Hakkar deck you like, you're gonna have to craft Hakkar.
Is Hs linked to Twitch or something? smh. There is plenty players that doesnt have to watch their fv. streamers in order to have fun. Its been losing popularity so what. It will die one day if something big doesnt change. So? Every game is slowly dying, some just die faster. In order to actually make game more popular Blizzard have to listen to community of their games. I mean its ok to nerf stong cards, but dont nerf them to obvillion. But they need to buff their shitty cards.
In my opinion the biggest issue is that the current meta has tow major build around cards:gen and baku. Either these cards should be in less decks via some changes or they should make those cards accesible. Most casual players dont want to invest in a set from over a year ago for the chance of getting those 2 legends. Crafting them is fine but casual players want to craft cool fun cards and not ones that feel standard.
Either those 2 legends should be nerfed or made more accesible for everyone. These feel like reno, and reno had an accesible price point in a fun adventure. Like reno, if you dont have the respective gen or baku you cant even play a budget version of the deck...
Another issue is that the current combo decks are super unfun to lose against. In the past losing to savage roar force of nature combo you could try and prepare here. The current combos you cannot prevent unless you are aggro. Just not fun for most casual players. None of my friends play anymore based on those 2 pieces of feedback.
Ummmm, I have to ask you if you really think that's true. What are the decks that use Genn and Baku? Odd warrior, odd paladin, even lock (which I never see anymore), odd rogue (which basically doesn't exist anymore), even paladin and shaman, odd mage. Odd hunter and even rogue are fringe decks. Now tell me that those are the most played decks? Maybe odd paladin, mage and warrior see high levels of play. The meta is shaped by hunter and priest, straight up. They are the most common decks I see, and virtually 40% of all games over the last day are played with those classes, that run no Genn or Baku decks besides odd hunter. Decks that do use Genn and Baku amount to about 30% over all classes that run one of those decks. I have yet to see an even shaman mirror in over 100 games this season. Only three classes use one of those decks as their most popular deck, and Genn is frankly nowhere. So you only need Baku, and you only need Baku if you want to play warrior, mage or paladin.
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
Weird. I'm not saying they don't impact the meta, 30% is plenty, but you don't have to play a odd / even deck to win. Secret paladin is effective, priest is effective, hunter is effective etc etc.
I am not arguing that those other decks are not effective, I never play genn or baku (I played some wild even shaman for a bit 2 months back, but other than that I don't use either). My point is that this is the "PERCEPTION" from the players who have quit (that i know of at least). The whole topic here is why people are leaving the game, and Dean Ayala asked about what they can do to help players who quit come back. My take is that the perception of two cards from the witchwood being powerful is what the issue is. It's actually more than that, it is that these cards are not just perceived to be powerful (and oftentimes have been the number one decks in the meta since inception), it's that you cannot even "try" to play any even or odd decks without that card. It is unfortunate for players who are not good at the game (which by the laws of statistics have to be the majority of the players), who feel that they have no chance based on this. The people I know who have left got extremely upset either losing to some crazy combo that spent 5 minutes one turn killing them at turn 8 without understanding what happened, or they got super frustrated that they faced 7 odd paladins in a row and they don't have a Genn or Baku to even try making those decks. So those players have all left over the last several months (and a month back or so the top decks were even and odd), and they just felt like it wasn't fun. My problem is not that the cards are good, or that you can't have fun or do well with other decks... it is instead that these cards feel like they lock out a portion of the game for newer players.
The main point of my argument here is this. For most casual players (which is the majority of hearthstone, and these are the players leaving the game the most), is that they are not enjoying the perception of what it takes to do well or have fun. It follows these points:
1) Genn and Baku are perceived to be in the most powerful decks (or have been at one point or another since they were released in the witchwood).
2) Genn and Baku are build around cards, you cannot build a budget even or odd deck without that card
3) Those cards are from the witchwood set, so they either have to invest in an old set for the odds of getting those cards (most players being casual, the odds are not great to get either of those since they prob only spend between 0 and 80 bucks a set or so).
4) Crafting these with dust feels bad, because most casual people prefer to craft cards that feel fun. Genn and Baku do not feel fun when you play them from your hand... you actually usually only play them from hand when your hand is empty or you have little to do as their statline and board presence is not good for the mana. The fun of the card is up front in the deck style at the start of the game... so the users who craft these instead feel like they "unlocked a style of deckbuilding" instead of crafting a fun card to play.
5) This was handled differently in the past. Other build around cards like C'thun was free and so everyone could try and build c'thun decks. Reno Jackson was super accessible in an adventure via at most 2400 gold, and at worst 25 dollars... Also those cards felt more "fun" when you played them. Justicar Truehart from the grand tournament was also a card that only felt impactful and fun the turn you played it (so crafting it was okay, since it wasn't a card that impacted the entire game play of the deck).
So to recap, the point here is not that the people who play this game a lot know you can do well with other decks. The point is not that these cards are not overpowered The point is not that these cards are not craft-able with dust so everyone can play. The point has nothing to do with anyone who is in any shape related to anyone who probably reads these forums. This argument applies to the majority of hearthstone who is either bad at the game, plays 30 minutes a day on the toilet or the train, or just casual people who don't read forums or watch streams or videos. The point is that the perception of what those 2 cards does, and how accessible they are, and how fun they are is something that IS driving players away (it HAS at a minimum driven 8 people I know away from the game... those arguments directly). The other 3 people I know who played this game were driven away from combo (and my argument on combo was not against it but was that combo decks in the past were less unfun feeling to play against than now... savage roar force of nature druid was only an 18 damage combo... topsy turvy priest is like 128 or something, mechathun combo animation happens so fast amateurs have no clue what just happened, etc)
I also would like to say that i don't think the majority of those who left hearthstone care about a tournament mode, or care about half the arguments people make here. The majority who have left I can guarantee probably only played 30 minutes to an hour a day, and instead just miss the casual fun they could have playing without feeling hopeless.
Well, I guess people who feel that way were never gonna stick around long anyway. If I was F2P and I didn't want to craft an integral part of a deck I want to play because it's "not fun" and I'd rather craft something that "looks cool when I play it", then I dunno what to say. By that token, we should all get Bloodmage Thalnos for free, which doesn't do anything spectacular but has been an incredibly useful card for a variety of decks over the years. And yes I know it's not an integral card, but most decks require one or two legendaries, you're usually going to have to craft something sooner or later. If you see a Mechathun deck you like, you're gonna need Mechathun. If you see a Hakkar deck you like, you're gonna have to craft Hakkar.
The difference is that mechathun and hakkar are fun to play... the others are not. Also, most people who are leaving you could argue were those who would not stick around anyway. That is not the point, the point is that hearthstone grew bigger than any ccg ever has, and now its on a slight decline... The point should be that hearthstone should be trying to keep those players. I myself, I am not great and I don't buy into my own theories for my own gametime, I play the game still though and I craft other cards and I spend about 100 bucks an expansion ... the point of this post is not for someone like me or someone more serious than me. The point was for the majority of people leaving (casual players). I have no problem with hero cards or other integral parts of a deck, or combo cards like malygos. Those are different, it's like genn and baku are creating a feeling where its unlocking a whole new mode of decks... even and odd are sooo different from other decks with the starting change to hero power, and deck restrictions ... that it is like playing in another mode. Those two cards are locking out the fun for people who now instead of crafting hakkar feel they should craft baku because they saw a ton of paladins beat them... You also need to realize that MOST people who play hearthstone do not WANT to hit legend, they do not care if they do well enough to be called good... they want to have fun and win a game once in a while.
So because your childhood heroes quit HS you think its dying? They are as stale as the meta anyways. Then again you probably enjoy sending chat messages they never see. Games aren't meant to have the life span of decades. Of course they get stale.
Hs is losing it's playerbase time after time after time. Only to stand up again and survive. All HS "Killers" are not nearly as popular and played as much as hearthstone, so i don't really see a problem here.
And for those who wonder what mindlessness is, here's the definition: mindlessness is the ability to do damage out of hand.
The sheer amount of burn, buff, chargers, weapon, summon in the game is that unbalanced that mindlessness is the only top tier strategy to close games successfully.
People don't realize that a totally different legend player would occur if there were less mindlessness in the game. The type of legend players are just a reflection of cards being handled well.
That's...weird. First you critisize me as a bad player and then as a good one for being legend? Im confused.
Lots of people play control. LOTS. I've faced 3 warriors in a row in top 200. My match-ups yesterday were literally 2 hunters,5 priests (3 of them purely control),1 zoo deck and 2 warriors. And that was just yesterday.
Anyway,you seem toxic against the game and its practises. I get where you're coming from but personally, i think blizzard will try to save the game and make it fun again. Everyone's acting like card games dont get so stale easily. But which of you guys play casual? Not many,at least not the long-time players. We're playing because we're competitive and we wanna win. If i wanted to win,i wouldnt bring a ''fun'' deck with a 20% winrate. If it's fun for me tho but it also gets me a 70% i'll play it.
Do we take a lot of bullshit from blizzard? We do. Do we want/need a better game? we do.
When witchwood hit,i was excited. When face hunter finally died out,i was really happy. Back then,people were hating the game left and right. Every game gets boring if you play it long enough. HS has small interaction and generally is based on luck and strategy. It is only logical not to be able to keep up after a while. Money wise,it's stupidly expensive and i get why f2p might hate the huge grind you have to go through.
As one guy in here said :
''Roration will decide if i stay or completely quit the game''. I stand by that. Im hopeful that rotation will kill netdecking for at least 2 months. I have already thought of 5 decks i will play after rotation. And then,when rexxar and jaina wont be there to win the game singlehanded, fun will be back. Blizzard might as well print something REALLY stupid and just cut the playerbase in half. Im hopeful,rotation will save the game. If it doesnt, then its the end even for the best players in the game.
That's...weird. First you critisize me as a bad player and then as a good one for being legend? Im confused.
Never critized you for a bad player or a legend player.
Lots of people play control. LOTS. I've faced 3 warriors in a row in top 200. My match-ups yesterday were literally 2 hunters,5 priests (3 of them purely control),1 zoo deck and 2 warriors. And that was just yesterday.
So…?
Anyway,you seem toxic against the game and its practises. I get where you're coming from but personally, i think blizzard will try to save the game and make it fun again. Everyone's acting like card games dont get so stale easily. But which of you guys play casual? Not many,at least not the long-time players. We're playing because we're competitive and we wanna win. If i wanted to win,i wouldnt bring a ''fun'' deck with a 20% winrate. If it's fun for me tho but it also gets me a 70% i'll play it.
So…?
'Roration will decide if i stay or completely quit the game''. I stand by that. Im hopeful that rotation will kill netdecking for at least 2 months. I have already thought of 5 decks i will play after rotation. And then,when rexxar and jaina wont be there to win the game singlehanded, fun will be back. Blizzard might as well print something REALLY stupid and just cut the playerbase in half. Im hopeful,rotation will save the game. If it doesnt, then its the end even for the best players in the game.
Prepare to quit. Nothing will change.
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We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
I rest my case. Negativity will always prevail, and not for the sake of pushing things forward and for constructive dialogue, but for itself.
There you are mistaken.
Like, I have not faced (real life) so much negative people who prove my point.Guess, I have.
Make a distinction between those who are negative for a living and those who are critical for the embetterment; don't accept mindlessness to be the status quo. I have defined mindlessness. Loving the game is only possible if critical about current divisive target audience card design. The next expansion: different cards, same mindlessness. Read my lips.The past confirmed unmistakenly.
Well, you prove my point. Negativity all for nothing. Emptiness.Chaos.
Why do you play/comment on this game apart from proving my point about negativity?
Because he is a moron.
His entire thing is blaming the devs for his shortcomings. Like he says in his signature, he ''can't win even with all the skill in the world'' so it is easier for him to blame the development and other players than to accept that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't have as much skill as he believes to have and just kindda sucks at the game?
Hooghout, you're an idiot.
You went on record saying that you play Quest Priest, a deck that apparently needs a lot of skill to pilot because you hate mindlessness, but you refuse to play Velen and Malygos, the cards that can make the deck explode because they are ''mindless''. You're the same type of moron who decides to run a marathon but before the race even starts he shoots himself in the foot because he wants to prove a point about how he is better than everyone else and can win even when crippled. In the end, he loses the race and then proceeds to whine about how everyone else had an unfair advantage over him and how the system screwed him over. That is exactly what you do in HS. You put yourself on a pedestal, cripple yourself on purpose because you believe that your ''superior intellect and skill'' is enough to win and then you whine here like a little bitch about how EVERYONE ELSE is out to get you, how everyone else in mindless, how the developers are the core of all evil in the world and so on. I'm shocked at the amount of mental gymnastics that you need to preform on every single post that you make just to try to justify your bullshit and not break this illusion that you're in.
Why is it so? Because it is easier to spew BA level of philosophy that you've found on reddit to continue this delusion of grandeur than to actually stop and ask yourself that maybe you're the one who is in the wrong? Ofc that won't happen, you'll just reply with some more nonsense about ethics and go on your merry way.
There is nothing else left to say other than that I pity you. Every time that I see you posting something it is filled with negativity and flipping the blame on someone else. You're a sad, little man, Hooghout, and I can only feel sorry for you because you seem so trapped and engaged in a game and community that is causing you to be so negative and toxic all the time. Take a break from Hearthpwn and the game, go outside, meet new people, treat yourself to a new fedora, find something that makes you happy and then come back with a new perspective...or just stay here and continue to spew nonsense, whatever works out for you, buddy.
Behave yourself EternalHS. Your T5-bandwagon comments are well known. Stay civilized.
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Pretentious much?
Finally some light in the darkness of responses.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
That's...weird. First you critisize me as a bad player and then as a good one for being legend? Im confused.
Lots of people play control. LOTS. I've faced 3 warriors in a row in top 200. My match-ups yesterday were literally 2 hunters,5 priests (3 of them purely control),1 zoo deck and 2 warriors. And that was just yesterday.
Anyway,you seem toxic against the game and its practises. I get where you're coming from but personally, i think blizzard will try to save the game and make it fun again. Everyone's acting like card games dont get so stale easily. But which of you guys play casual? Not many,at least not the long-time players. We're playing because we're competitive and we wanna win. If i wanted to win,i wouldnt bring a ''fun'' deck with a 20% winrate. If it's fun for me tho but it also gets me a 70% i'll play it.
Do we take a lot of bullshit from blizzard? We do. Do we want/need a better game? we do.
When witchwood hit,i was excited. When face hunter finally died out,i was really happy. Back then,people were hating the game left and right. Every game gets boring if you play it long enough. HS has small interaction and generally is based on luck and strategy. It is only logical not to be able to keep up after a while. Money wise,it's stupidly expensive and i get why f2p might hate the huge grind you have to go through.
As one guy in here said :
''Roration will decide if i stay or completely quit the game''. I stand by that. Im hopeful that rotation will kill netdecking for at least 2 months. I have already thought of 5 decks i will play after rotation. And then,when rexxar and jaina wont be there to win the game singlehanded, fun will be back. Blizzard might as well print something REALLY stupid and just cut the playerbase in half. Im hopeful,rotation will save the game. If it doesnt, then its the end even for the best players in the game.
No we will still get legend every month with or without burst in the game lol.
My problem with hearthstone is that I want to love the game, but really can’t. I guess most people here who found the time to post on this thread, are feeling pretty much the same (excluding the “everything is fine” kind of people).
I have high hopes for the upcoming rotation. If the things won’t change after it, I’m afraid it’ll be a fatal blow to the game.
This topic would be way cooler if it said "loosing" instead of "losing." HS IS LOOSING ITS PLAYERS!! BIG TIME!!1eleven!
Maybe now, and overall it is true you dont need those cards to do well but it IS the perception everyone i know who used to play daily and have quit over the last few months have told me. Its a perception thing, not everyone is at a high level and at the lower ranks that is the perception and it has caused people to quit. Cthun was not a top tier deck but at high rank 15 to 20 people played it a ton thinking it was. Genn and baku have over their lifetimes been in the top decks and are perceived to be when they are not. Remember Dean Ayala asked what would bring back those who left. This is what i have heard from those who left.. I still play and i dont use and top tier decks i play control for fun, but its not what makes me happy it is what needs to happen to make those who left haply. Huge difference here.
Weird. I'm not saying they don't impact the meta, 30% is plenty, but you don't have to play a odd / even deck to win. Secret paladin is effective, priest is effective, hunter is effective etc etc.
I am not arguing that those other decks are not effective, I never play genn or baku (I played some wild even shaman for a bit 2 months back, but other than that I don't use either). My point is that this is the "PERCEPTION" from the players who have quit (that i know of at least). The whole topic here is why people are leaving the game, and Dean Ayala asked about what they can do to help players who quit come back. My take is that the perception of two cards from the witchwood being powerful is what the issue is. It's actually more than that, it is that these cards are not just perceived to be powerful (and oftentimes have been the number one decks in the meta since inception), it's that you cannot even "try" to play any even or odd decks without that card. It is unfortunate for players who are not good at the game (which by the laws of statistics have to be the majority of the players), who feel that they have no chance based on this. The people I know who have left got extremely upset either losing to some crazy combo that spent 5 minutes one turn killing them at turn 8 without understanding what happened, or they got super frustrated that they faced 7 odd paladins in a row and they don't have a Genn or Baku to even try making those decks. So those players have all left over the last several months (and a month back or so the top decks were even and odd), and they just felt like it wasn't fun. My problem is not that the cards are good, or that you can't have fun or do well with other decks... it is instead that these cards feel like they lock out a portion of the game for newer players.
The main point of my argument here is this. For most casual players (which is the majority of hearthstone, and these are the players leaving the game the most), is that they are not enjoying the perception of what it takes to do well or have fun. It follows these points:
1) Genn and Baku are perceived to be in the most powerful decks (or have been at one point or another since they were released in the witchwood).
2) Genn and Baku are build around cards, you cannot build a budget even or odd deck without that card
3) Those cards are from the witchwood set, so they either have to invest in an old set for the odds of getting those cards (most players being casual, the odds are not great to get either of those since they prob only spend between 0 and 80 bucks a set or so).
4) Crafting these with dust feels bad, because most casual people prefer to craft cards that feel fun. Genn and Baku do not feel fun when you play them from your hand... you actually usually only play them from hand when your hand is empty or you have little to do as their statline and board presence is not good for the mana. The fun of the card is up front in the deck style at the start of the game... so the users who craft these instead feel like they "unlocked a style of deckbuilding" instead of crafting a fun card to play.
5) This was handled differently in the past. Other build around cards like C'thun was free and so everyone could try and build c'thun decks. Reno Jackson was super accessible in an adventure via at most 2400 gold, and at worst 25 dollars... Also those cards felt more "fun" when you played them. Justicar Truehart from the grand tournament was also a card that only felt impactful and fun the turn you played it (so crafting it was okay, since it wasn't a card that impacted the entire game play of the deck).
So to recap, the point here is not that the people who play this game a lot know you can do well with other decks. The point is not that these cards are not overpowered The point is not that these cards are not craft-able with dust so everyone can play. The point has nothing to do with anyone who is in any shape related to anyone who probably reads these forums. This argument applies to the majority of hearthstone who is either bad at the game, plays 30 minutes a day on the toilet or the train, or just casual people who don't read forums or watch streams or videos. The point is that the perception of what those 2 cards does, and how accessible they are, and how fun they are is something that IS driving players away (it HAS at a minimum driven 8 people I know away from the game... those arguments directly). The other 3 people I know who played this game were driven away from combo (and my argument on combo was not against it but was that combo decks in the past were less unfun feeling to play against than now... savage roar force of nature druid was only an 18 damage combo... topsy turvy priest is like 128 or something, mechathun combo animation happens so fast amateurs have no clue what just happened, etc)
I also would like to say that i don't think the majority of those who left hearthstone care about a tournament mode, or care about half the arguments people make here. The majority who have left I can guarantee probably only played 30 minutes to an hour a day, and instead just miss the casual fun they could have playing without feeling hopeless.
Hey, I said I tried to exaggerate the title, but adding typos is not my thing.
The only thing wrong with hearthstone are the people who play it. When 1 in 10 games is against someone who actually ENJOYS card games, instead of just dopamine hits from getting stuff... you know you have a problem.
Well, I guess people who feel that way were never gonna stick around long anyway. If I was F2P and I didn't want to craft an integral part of a deck I want to play because it's "not fun" and I'd rather craft something that "looks cool when I play it", then I dunno what to say. By that token, we should all get Bloodmage Thalnos for free, which doesn't do anything spectacular but has been an incredibly useful card for a variety of decks over the years. And yes I know it's not an integral card, but most decks require one or two legendaries, you're usually going to have to craft something sooner or later. If you see a Mechathun deck you like, you're gonna need Mechathun. If you see a Hakkar deck you like, you're gonna have to craft Hakkar.
Is Hs linked to Twitch or something? smh. There is plenty players that doesnt have to watch their fv. streamers in order to have fun. Its been losing popularity so what. It will die one day if something big doesnt change. So? Every game is slowly dying, some just die faster. In order to actually make game more popular Blizzard have to listen to community of their games. I mean its ok to nerf stong cards, but dont nerf them to obvillion. But they need to buff their shitty cards.
The difference is that mechathun and hakkar are fun to play... the others are not. Also, most people who are leaving you could argue were those who would not stick around anyway. That is not the point, the point is that hearthstone grew bigger than any ccg ever has, and now its on a slight decline... The point should be that hearthstone should be trying to keep those players. I myself, I am not great and I don't buy into my own theories for my own gametime, I play the game still though and I craft other cards and I spend about 100 bucks an expansion ... the point of this post is not for someone like me or someone more serious than me. The point was for the majority of people leaving (casual players). I have no problem with hero cards or other integral parts of a deck, or combo cards like malygos. Those are different, it's like genn and baku are creating a feeling where its unlocking a whole new mode of decks... even and odd are sooo different from other decks with the starting change to hero power, and deck restrictions ... that it is like playing in another mode. Those two cards are locking out the fun for people who now instead of crafting hakkar feel they should craft baku because they saw a ton of paladins beat them... You also need to realize that MOST people who play hearthstone do not WANT to hit legend, they do not care if they do well enough to be called good... they want to have fun and win a game once in a while.
So because your childhood heroes quit HS you think its dying? They are as stale as the meta anyways. Then again you probably enjoy sending chat messages they never see. Games aren't meant to have the life span of decades. Of course they get stale.
find out in the next episode of Tinfoilhat Z
Hs is losing it's playerbase time after time after time. Only to stand up again and survive. All HS "Killers" are not nearly as popular and played as much as hearthstone, so i don't really see a problem here.
Always expect the unexpectable!
this game has been dying since beta.
artifact was the las nail in the coffin
ps.lol
Never critized you for a bad player or a legend player.
So…?
So…?
Prepare to quit. Nothing will change.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Behave yourself EternalHS. Your T5-bandwagon comments are well known. Stay civilized.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.