Tell me please, if there is at least one person (mainly of those crying that baku and genn are OP and they should be nerfed or even killed) who wanted Reno Jackson or C'Thun (during his best days, when he used to appear in tier 2 or even tier 1, as I remember), to get nerfed? There are some cards, that are meant to be impactful or powerful just because they are build-arounds and such cards can't be nerfed without being killed
Then they need to kill them and problem solved. The same as they did before with other "build-arounds"(Aviana, Raza, Warsong Commander and others).
I'm talking about neutral cards that allow every single class to have its own decks built around it. You gave an example of three class cards, so just one class gains the advantage from it being OP. That's what is just called unfair, so cards like those are always more likely to get nerfed
Tell me please, if there is at least one person (mainly of those crying that baku and genn are OP and they should be nerfed or even killed) who wanted Reno Jackson or C'Thun (during his best days, when he used to appear in tier 2 or even tier 1, as I remember), to get nerfed? There are some cards, that are meant to be impactful or powerful just because they are build-arounds and such cards can't be nerfed without being killed
Then they need to kill them and problem solved. The same as they did before with other "build-arounds"(Aviana, Raza, Warsong Commander and others).
I'm talking about neutral cards that allow every single class to have its own decks built around it. You gave an example of three class cards, so just one class gains the advantage from it being OP. That's what is just called unfair, so cards like those are always more likely to get nerfed
Spiteful Summoner? Patches the Pirate? Murloc Warleader?
Tell me please, if there is at least one person (mainly of those crying that baku and genn are OP and they should be nerfed or even killed) who wanted Reno Jackson or C'Thun (during his best days, when he used to appear in tier 2 or even tier 1, as I remember), to get nerfed? There are some cards, that are meant to be impactful or powerful just because they are build-arounds and such cards can't be nerfed without being killed
This makes no sense. One is a comabck mechanic which lowers consistency of deck and the other is a win condition that isnt absolute but often good. BOTH require actually drawing the card.
Starting a game with an advantage(upgraded power) is just stupid.
Tbh I jus think the only ones that are a little bit out of control are Odd Warrior and Odd Paladin, the other ones seem fair enough in my opinion, even in wild, decks like Even Shaman didn't feel that broken because of the hero power but because of all the other broken stuff. My solution would be to nerf Baku to downgrade Warrior's hero power to 3 armor and Paladin's to a 2/2 or something, other than that I think that would be enough to shake the meta but not completely devastating those archetypes.
"Tbh I jus think the only ones that are a little bit out of control are Odd Warrior and Odd Paladin"
Honestly, a vast majority of the community would agree with you on this one, and I'd say I'm one of them. Odd Mage is a good deck but it's extremely beatable (especially if they don't run Zola or Jaina for the lategame) I would argue Odd Rogue isn't even good anymore after the Cold Blood nerf (and it'll be even LESS good once their Flappy Bird and Fungalmancer bites the dust) It's even debatable how good Odd Warrior really is because there's so many OTK combo decks it's bad against. And while it's probably not ideal spot for it to have great matchups against basically everything besides combo and getting mostly run over by combo, at least it's a deck that has weaknesses and counterplay.
Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical on a 2/2 "nerf", because while yes, odd Paladin does have synergies with bigger boards and thus the extra token is more valuable, a 2/2 is also quite a bit harder to remove earlygame, and with this change Odd Pally can spit out quite a few semi-relevant 2/2 tokens for free without playing cards, and that's a world that kind of concerns me. I'd strongly argue to make either a 2/1 or a 1/2 rather than a 2/2, because a paladin that can make all these 2/2 tokens on potentially turn 1 (with coin), 2, and then 3 without having played a single card really worries me, at that point you can probably just cut all the 1 drops from the deck just because that hero power is so dumb now.
But that's what playtesting is for.
But anyway, that's another overgeneralization that does bother me, that Baku itself is a stupid OP card... Baku is honestly only making two specific decks in the meta TRULY over the top and meta defining whilst making another one (with some control and aggro variants) viable and another one... tier 4 or so.
Blame those two select decks, not Baku in and of itself. Changes can easily be made.
What if they combined the two effects and made it a battlecry. It would be so much more easy to balance.
For instance genn would be a whatever mana card with battlecry "if your deck contains only even cost cards upgrade your hp, it costs 1" and Baku would be "if your deck contains only odd cost cards upgrade your hp, it costs 1"
That way you can modify the stats on the card and it would be relevant, this way they become like a more powerful but conditional justicar trueheart.
Woo hoo now literally every deck I’ve made in the last 6 months will be worthless and I’ll have to spend a fortune to dust all new ones... all according to plan eh Blizzard?
Okay, where did this Mage bandwagon suddenly storm from?
Yes, Explosive Runes is a big loss, yes, Fungalmancer is a big loss, and even Zola is loss as it's something the aggro variant could certainly run, even though it doesn't usually go for it.
Everything else still stays to form a very cohesive package in Odd Mage: The hero power stuff (Daring Fire Eater, Pixie, Clockwork, Pyromaniac) is all still there, the Black Cat and the Arcane Missles will still be there, Mirror Entity will still be there to replace Explosive Runes if you still want a secret package, Luna will still be there (although you may not want to run her now with a lot less 1 drop options now, but in case more happen to come up, the door's open),if you REALLY wanna commit to the secrets? Subject 9 will be there, and VERY importantly? A little card named Jan'ali the Dragonhawk will ABSOLUTELY still be there and will still be extremely powerful even without the lifesteal from Jaina and the ability to Zola it back into your hand.
Mage is gonna be fine guys, calm your tits. If I'm being quite honest, there's few classes I'm LESS worried about than Mage in a post-rotation world.
And far be it from me to mini-mod but this is all extremely off-topic anyway.
I really don't understand all the flak genn and baku get, I mean the point of them is that all the classes could use them but require a build around, and to make such a build around the outcome better be quite the reward and that's what is happening here. There is a trade-off here, and there really isn't that many decks especially in the meta currently that abuse them. Just find ways to counter them like we always have since the game came to be?
Even Shaman was already not great and then they nerfed Flametongue totem, the only thing holding the deck together.
Yes, Even Paladin is a tier 1 deck, but look at everything rotating out of it.
Hydrologist, Corpsetaker, Spikeridged Steed, Tarim, Val'anyr, Dinosize, Drygulch Jailor, Level Up, Crystal Lion, Lightforged Stegodon (Not that the whole Silver Hand package actually gets run, but still, they'd pretty much HAVE to resort to this stuff if these were all Witchwood cards) Lich King, Saronite... you get the picture. The entire foundation of the deck and any other good option you might have to run in it all crumbles on rotation.
And Even Paladin and Even Shaman are the only even decks that ever saw any real play. Even Rogue is kind of a thing, but it's really not... great.
And I forgot about Evenlock, but that's a deck that's losing it's entire core, too. Reaver, Amethyst Spellstone, Beetle, Brewer, Bonemare, Lich King, Vulgar Homonculus, Defile, and perhaps more importantly, Gul'dan, it's all gone. The only thing that deck has left is mountain giant hero power cheese. And that isn't worth building a whole deck around, as powerful as those turn 3 giants can be.
Leave Genn alone and focus on Baku, honestly. The rotation is going to slaughter Even decks all by itself.
Blizz is blizz :( ............ i guess they find genn powerful according to interview on youtube!
Not to continue things into borderline off topic territory, but I’m actually extremely excited for the potential “death” of Odd Warrior. When you’re only getting one more armor out of the hero power, you’re probably better off running cards like Firetree Witchdoctor and Weapons Project and Dragon’s Roar and all that other cool stuff non-Odd Warriors want to run that they can’t, plus you get to remove Thicc Patches from your deck and put a playable card in it’s stead.
Very exciting future for me, personally, and Dragon Warrior is probably one of the first decks I’ll build in new Meta unless something even cooler comes along.
Not to continue things into borderline off topic territory, but I’m actually extremely excited for the potential “death” of Odd Warrior. When you’re only getting one more armor out of the hero power, you’re probably better off running cards like Firetree Witchdoctor and Weapons Project and Dragon’s Roar and all that other cool stuff non-Odd Warriors want to run that they can’t, plus you get to remove Thicc Patches from your deck and put a playable card in it’s stead.
Very exciting future for me, personally, and Dragon Warrior is probably one of the first decks I’ll build in new Meta unless something even cooler comes along.
Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical on a 2/2 "nerf", because while yes, odd Paladin does have synergies with bigger boards and thus the extra token is more valuable, a 2/2 is also quite a bit harder to remove earlygame, and with this change Odd Pally can spit out quite a few semi-relevant 2/2 tokens for free without playing cards, and that's a world that kind of concerns me. I'd strongly argue to make either a 2/1 or a 1/2 rather than a 2/2, because a paladin that can make all these 2/2 tokens on potentially turn 1 (with coin), 2, and then 3 without having played a single card really worries me, at that point you can probably just cut all the 1 drops from the deck just because that hero power is so dumb now.
This seems like the best approach to me. Increasing the value of of stat-based hero powers by 1 point seems to be the optimal choice (the exceptions are Druid and Priest, which seem pretty sub par even with +2 stats, but I think that's largely down to the restrictions of building those classes with odd cost cards only). But Hunter ballista shot at +1 (2 to 3) damage, Rogue poisoned dagger at +1 (1/2 to 2/2) and Mage fireblast rank 2 at +1 (1 to 2) damage all seem powerful but fair (Rogue may be a little sketchy but technically it is +2 stats over the course of 2 turns so perhaps a little more awkward to balance). Paladin generating double the minions and Warrior generating double the armour seems incorrect and both have proven to be a little too strong, so I like the idea of Paladin generating a single 2/1 and Warrior gaining 3 armour as a reasonable fix. Unfortunately it leaves Warrior pretty desolate once again but at least Rush Warrior is starting to look reasonable.
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I'm talking about neutral cards that allow every single class to have its own decks built around it. You gave an example of three class cards, so just one class gains the advantage from it being OP. That's what is just called unfair, so cards like those are always more likely to get nerfed
Spiteful Summoner? Patches the Pirate? Murloc Warleader?
And Yogg-Saron of course.
This makes no sense. One is a comabck mechanic which lowers consistency of deck and the other is a win condition that isnt absolute but often good. BOTH require actually drawing the card.
Starting a game with an advantage(upgraded power) is just stupid.
Fun > Meta
It will get nerfed next xpac to force ppl to buy packs for new decks, old news
Isn't that actually a good thing?
Tbh I jus think the only ones that are a little bit out of control are Odd Warrior and Odd Paladin, the other ones seem fair enough in my opinion, even in wild, decks like Even Shaman didn't feel that broken because of the hero power but because of all the other broken stuff. My solution would be to nerf Baku to downgrade Warrior's hero power to 3 armor and Paladin's to a 2/2 or something, other than that I think that would be enough to shake the meta but not completely devastating those archetypes.
"Tbh I jus think the only ones that are a little bit out of control are Odd Warrior and Odd Paladin"
Honestly, a vast majority of the community would agree with you on this one, and I'd say I'm one of them. Odd Mage is a good deck but it's extremely beatable (especially if they don't run Zola or Jaina for the lategame) I would argue Odd Rogue isn't even good anymore after the Cold Blood nerf (and it'll be even LESS good once their Flappy Bird and Fungalmancer bites the dust) It's even debatable how good Odd Warrior really is because there's so many OTK combo decks it's bad against. And while it's probably not ideal spot for it to have great matchups against basically everything besides combo and getting mostly run over by combo, at least it's a deck that has weaknesses and counterplay.
Frankly, I'm a bit skeptical on a 2/2 "nerf", because while yes, odd Paladin does have synergies with bigger boards and thus the extra token is more valuable, a 2/2 is also quite a bit harder to remove earlygame, and with this change Odd Pally can spit out quite a few semi-relevant 2/2 tokens for free without playing cards, and that's a world that kind of concerns me. I'd strongly argue to make either a 2/1 or a 1/2 rather than a 2/2, because a paladin that can make all these 2/2 tokens on potentially turn 1 (with coin), 2, and then 3 without having played a single card really worries me, at that point you can probably just cut all the 1 drops from the deck just because that hero power is so dumb now.
But that's what playtesting is for.
But anyway, that's another overgeneralization that does bother me, that Baku itself is a stupid OP card... Baku is honestly only making two specific decks in the meta TRULY over the top and meta defining whilst making another one (with some control and aggro variants) viable and another one... tier 4 or so.
Blame those two select decks, not Baku in and of itself. Changes can easily be made.
What if they combined the two effects and made it a battlecry. It would be so much more easy to balance.
For instance genn would be a whatever mana card with battlecry "if your deck contains only even cost cards upgrade your hp, it costs 1" and Baku would be "if your deck contains only odd cost cards upgrade your hp, it costs 1"
That way you can modify the stats on the card and it would be relevant, this way they become like a more powerful but conditional justicar trueheart.
Woo hoo now literally every deck I’ve made in the last 6 months will be worthless and I’ll have to spend a fortune to dust all new ones... all according to plan eh Blizzard?
stay woke
Okay, where did this Mage bandwagon suddenly storm from?
Yes, Explosive Runes is a big loss, yes, Fungalmancer is a big loss, and even Zola is loss as it's something the aggro variant could certainly run, even though it doesn't usually go for it.
Everything else still stays to form a very cohesive package in Odd Mage: The hero power stuff (Daring Fire Eater, Pixie, Clockwork, Pyromaniac) is all still there, the Black Cat and the Arcane Missles will still be there, Mirror Entity will still be there to replace Explosive Runes if you still want a secret package, Luna will still be there (although you may not want to run her now with a lot less 1 drop options now, but in case more happen to come up, the door's open),if you REALLY wanna commit to the secrets? Subject 9 will be there, and VERY importantly? A little card named Jan'ali the Dragonhawk will ABSOLUTELY still be there and will still be extremely powerful even without the lifesteal from Jaina and the ability to Zola it back into your hand.
Mage is gonna be fine guys, calm your tits. If I'm being quite honest, there's few classes I'm LESS worried about than Mage in a post-rotation world.
And far be it from me to mini-mod but this is all extremely off-topic anyway.
Leave Genn/Baku alone and git gud. They are fine.
My first created Hearthstone cards:
I really don't understand all the flak genn and baku get, I mean the point of them is that all the classes could use them but require a build around, and to make such a build around the outcome better be quite the reward and that's what is happening here. There is a trade-off here, and there really isn't that many decks especially in the meta currently that abuse them. Just find ways to counter them like we always have since the game came to be?
This is hilarious to read. Like the mad requests to make Reno heal up to 15 back the time :) :) :)
Blizz is blizz :( ............ i guess they find genn powerful according to interview on youtube!
gg my odd warrior i guess
Not to continue things into borderline off topic territory, but I’m actually extremely excited for the potential “death” of Odd Warrior. When you’re only getting one more armor out of the hero power, you’re probably better off running cards like Firetree Witchdoctor and Weapons Project and Dragon’s Roar and all that other cool stuff non-Odd Warriors want to run that they can’t, plus you get to remove Thicc Patches from your deck and put a playable card in it’s stead.
Very exciting future for me, personally, and Dragon Warrior is probably one of the first decks I’ll build in new Meta unless something even cooler comes along.
:(. But i like odd warrior
This seems like the best approach to me. Increasing the value of of stat-based hero powers by 1 point seems to be the optimal choice (the exceptions are Druid and Priest, which seem pretty sub par even with +2 stats, but I think that's largely down to the restrictions of building those classes with odd cost cards only). But Hunter ballista shot at +1 (2 to 3) damage, Rogue poisoned dagger at +1 (1/2 to 2/2) and Mage fireblast rank 2 at +1 (1 to 2) damage all seem powerful but fair (Rogue may be a little sketchy but technically it is +2 stats over the course of 2 turns so perhaps a little more awkward to balance). Paladin generating double the minions and Warrior generating double the armour seems incorrect and both have proven to be a little too strong, so I like the idea of Paladin generating a single 2/1 and Warrior gaining 3 armour as a reasonable fix. Unfortunately it leaves Warrior pretty desolate once again but at least Rush Warrior is starting to look reasonable.