I think fair would be, if you start with one less card in your hand. Like this:
Terrible idea. There was a big discussion at the start of Hearthstone's life which talked about hand size at the start and the sheer difference it makes to the game. Essentially, losing a single card makes a huge difference and you would need a much bigger advantage from Genn and Baku to make this even feasible. Perhaps if you tripled the hero power it would be more balanced in this instance.
Why not just accept that Genn and Baku are in the game and will stay in Standard until they are Rotated?
As obvious a mistake as they are, Blizzard won't backtrack now. It's not just a Card they are Nerfing, it's entire Archetypes.
Ok, some of you guys REALLY **REALLY** need to come out of hearthpwn and keep up with the news.
There's been several remarks from Blizzard, including the ever-hated Dean Ayala, that they ARE attacking Genn/Baku. They are trying to find the right way to do so given ..well, you see how messy it is to deal with them. But they ARE in "nerf this" mode. The current plan is to find a solution in time for next rotation.
So no, Blizzard isn't going to keep the two in tact.
Yeah, Genn/Baku is quite short-sighted. Every single card they print, they have to think about whether its mana cost is reasonable for the effect, but then also if it will fit into one of the odd-or-even decks so prevalent now. And the more cards printed, the more powerful they both become, since their main drawback was a limited card pool.
Because they would both be worse versions of Justicar.
Use only Even cards in your deck, and wait till you draw and play Genn to gain the benefit? It would be HORRIBLE.
Put all Odd cards in your deck, and wait till you draw and play Baku to gain the benefit? It would be HORRIBLE.
In both cases, the card would be totally unplayable.
OP, you get an F (for FAILURE) at game balancing.
Wow, are you illiterate or just looking for drama?
Read the OP again . . . slowly. I'll give you a hint. You don't have to wait till you draw the cards in question to get the ability.
@OP
Clearly some folks didn't understand what you suggested, but I can read multi-syllable words, and I like the idea. I'm not of the opinion that these cards require a nerf, but if Blizzard comes to a different conclusion, this is one of the few ideas I've seen that would still leave open the possibility of these cards being played.
Grats.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Genn is fine, Baku is the problem, just change the upgraded hero powers, and while at that also buff shaman's upgraded hero power that one just isn't on par with the others it's just plain boring.
Paladin : summon a 2/2 dude
Warrior: 3 armor BTW still worth it.
Rogue: already nerfed hard with the nerf to cold blood
Mage: no need to nerf the deck has clear trade-offs
How about this: Change the effects of both entirely. The main reason you would probably not see this change is because it's quite drastic. This rework would render crafted decks completely useless leading a large population to outright quit the game. So it comes to this, make minor tweaks such as a stat change to the cards or downright erase their effects. One keeps the meta quite stale, even post rotation in wild, and one causes mass leave of the game at once, it's a lose-lose. I hate the two in wild and would prefer a complete change, but unfortunately the best PR choice would have to be minor changes.
Read the original post? He said “until they are drawn” not “battlecry: upgrade/make it cost 1” the OP says that they would give the benefit until they are drawn and then have like a Justicar battlecry. I don’t think the idea is great, but you didn’t read the OP so.
My bad. But the idea is still absurd. Because even waiting to draw the cards to gain the effect makes Odd/Even unplayable.
Seriously guys pay attention to what devs are publicly saying. They have said in recent interview that they are looking at Genn/Baku and would like to have a solution by the time rotation hits. So it's very likely Genn/Baku nerf is happening in month or two.
I've already proposed the correct nerfs to them, however Blizzard doesn't want to listen. Odd paladin should summon 1 2/2 recruit (opposite mage hero power, deals 2 damage, just like normal mage hero power deals 1 and normal paladin power summons 1 1/1, yin and yang). Why it summons 2 1/1's is beyond me, and should have been seen to be broken way ahead of time.
Alternatively they could make the altered hero power occur at turn 3 and later, or turn 4 and later, or something like that. No draw requirement or anything, just a countdown of turns until the extra effect takes hold. This would allow at least some counterplay in the beginning, and would be a welcome nerf/adjustment/balance. Even always having a turn 1 play is pretty broken, and Odd always having an upgraded power is pretty broken. If it's delayed a bit arbitrarily, that allows more counterplay, and thus achieves better balance.
I've already proposed the correct nerfs to them, however Blizzard doesn't want to listen. Odd paladin should summon 1 2/2 recruit (opposite mage hero power, deals 2 damage, just like normal mage hero power deals 1 and normal paladin power summons 1 1/1, yin and yang). Why it summons 2 1/1's is beyond me, and should have been seen to be broken way ahead of time.
We're not trying to solve odd paladin. We're trying to solve Baku as a whole. The DECK itself isn't horrible. The problem is how Odd Paladin works the same every time, how Odd Rogue works the same every time. How Even Warlock works the same every time. How Odd Warrior works the same every time.
If your proposal is ONLY addressing Paladin, as if Baku would be suddenly fun and great for Standard and Wild afterwards, then I can understand them not using that idea.
Alternatively they could make the altered hero power occur at turn 3 and later, or turn 4 and later, or something like that. No draw requirement or anything, just a countdown of turns until the extra effect takes hold. This would allow at least some counterplay in the beginning, and would be a welcome nerf/adjustment/balance. Even always having a turn 1 play is pretty broken, and Odd always having an upgraded power is pretty broken. If it's delayed a bit arbitrarily, that allows more counterplay, and thus achieves better balance.
That would basically gut the cards completely. The concept is that you are sacrificing your turn 1, 3, 5 play for the ability to hero power those turns instead. (or 2, 4, 6, so on). Not having a 2 drop AND not having a strong hero power, or not having a turn 1/3 play is basically conceding the game for decks that would have any reason to use them. No deck would use them with such a change.
Note that this isn't discrediting the idea, just marking what kind of change it will be: a nuke from orbit. Blizzard flat out said that HoFing the two early is on the table so the concept of just destroying the cards IS a thing that we can do to them. Some folks believe that the only reason why the cards haven't yet been changed to "Give your charge minions +1 attack" is because A LOT of people actually like the cards and will ragequit if they are changed. So they seem to be looking for a solution that works for everyone, probably with the option to just nuke the thing dead if they can't.
I get the concept, however, losing whatever early turn is null and void with all the comeback mechanisms/AOE that exists now. Being better than the opponent for the entire match because you subscribe for a restriction that doesn't even make a difference (odd/even) has obviously shown itself to be a problem, hence why people propose solutions. Rogue dagger can be a 2/1 or 1/2, if you really think that's a problem. I chose Odd Paladin because it's the worst offender. I disagree strongly that the modest restrictions I proposed would "basically concede the game"
Why not just accept that Genn and Baku are in the game and will stay in Standard until they are Rotated?
As obvious a mistake as they are, Blizzard won't backtrack now. It's not just a Card they are Nerfing, it's entire Archetypes.
True, they aren't going away (sigh). But maybe little nerfs would help? Just decreased stats or increased mana? That's how OP cards are traditionally nerfed. It's been made clear that for certain classes the downside of going all even/odd is way more than offset by the upside of the hero power.
Nerfs to legendaries are very rare though. I assume this is due to the economic costs involved. It's better financially to nerf a classic card that is tangentially related to the problem.
Genn increased to 7 mana, Baku increased to 10. Problem solved! /thread
They should be 10 mana cards, plain and simple. Or 1 mana 1/1s. Or even more like a scroll/spell, so you effectively have one less minion. Idk if that is the best fix as I’m not a developer, but off the top of my head it seems good.
I thought a good card would be one with a battlecry that turns your opponent's hero power into the Priest one. It would probably be a Priest class card. But, the flavor seems pretty good to me. Spreading healing and peace and harmony. Would have been a nice counter to all those DKs.
I mean you could make it neutral if you wanted, but just a little hate for one class would probably swing things quite well.
Honestly, I quite like them. Not necessarily for the effects as they are, but the whole idea behind even and odd decks is really interesting.
Could they have been less powerful? Sure. That being said, I don’t see them as game-breakingly OP either. Also comes to show in the meta. They are not bringing such absurd winrates or are as vastly over-represented as we have seen with some decks in the past.
Terrible idea.
There was a big discussion at the start of Hearthstone's life which talked about hand size at the start and the sheer difference it makes to the game. Essentially, losing a single card makes a huge difference and you would need a much bigger advantage from Genn and Baku to make this even feasible.
Perhaps if you tripled the hero power it would be more balanced in this instance.
Ok, some of you guys REALLY **REALLY** need to come out of hearthpwn and keep up with the news.
There's been several remarks from Blizzard, including the ever-hated Dean Ayala, that they ARE attacking Genn/Baku. They are trying to find the right way to do so given ..well, you see how messy it is to deal with them. But they ARE in "nerf this" mode. The current plan is to find a solution in time for next rotation.
So no, Blizzard isn't going to keep the two in tact.
Edit: Here we go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/apewul/dean_ayala_iksar_value_town_interview_summary/
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Yeah, Genn/Baku is quite short-sighted. Every single card they print, they have to think about whether its mana cost is reasonable for the effect, but then also if it will fit into one of the odd-or-even decks so prevalent now. And the more cards printed, the more powerful they both become, since their main drawback was a limited card pool.
i would do something like :
The next 5 hero powers you use are upgraded.
Tthis would make the card still good early game and remove the infinite value from it.
Wow, are you illiterate or just looking for drama?
Read the OP again . . . slowly. I'll give you a hint. You don't have to wait till you draw the cards in question to get the ability.
@OP
Clearly some folks didn't understand what you suggested, but I can read multi-syllable words, and I like the idea. I'm not of the opinion that these cards require a nerf, but if Blizzard comes to a different conclusion, this is one of the few ideas I've seen that would still leave open the possibility of these cards being played.
Grats.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Genn is fine, Baku is the problem, just change the upgraded hero powers, and while at that also buff shaman's upgraded hero power that one just isn't on par with the others it's just plain boring.
Paladin : summon a 2/2 dude
Warrior: 3 armor BTW still worth it.
Rogue: already nerfed hard with the nerf to cold blood
Mage: no need to nerf the deck has clear trade-offs
stop asking for nerf stop complaining jesus
How about this: Change the effects of both entirely. The main reason you would probably not see this change is because it's quite drastic. This rework would render crafted decks completely useless leading a large population to outright quit the game. So it comes to this, make minor tweaks such as a stat change to the cards or downright erase their effects. One keeps the meta quite stale, even post rotation in wild, and one causes mass leave of the game at once, it's a lose-lose. I hate the two in wild and would prefer a complete change, but unfortunately the best PR choice would have to be minor changes.
Can you just not read, Tard? FFS...
Seriously guys pay attention to what devs are publicly saying. They have said in recent interview that they are looking at Genn/Baku and would like to have a solution by the time rotation hits. So it's very likely Genn/Baku nerf is happening in month or two.
I've already proposed the correct nerfs to them, however Blizzard doesn't want to listen. Odd paladin should summon 1 2/2 recruit (opposite mage hero power, deals 2 damage, just like normal mage hero power deals 1 and normal paladin power summons 1 1/1, yin and yang). Why it summons 2 1/1's is beyond me, and should have been seen to be broken way ahead of time.
Alternatively they could make the altered hero power occur at turn 3 and later, or turn 4 and later, or something like that. No draw requirement or anything, just a countdown of turns until the extra effect takes hold. This would allow at least some counterplay in the beginning, and would be a welcome nerf/adjustment/balance. Even always having a turn 1 play is pretty broken, and Odd always having an upgraded power is pretty broken. If it's delayed a bit arbitrarily, that allows more counterplay, and thus achieves better balance.
We're not trying to solve odd paladin. We're trying to solve Baku as a whole. The DECK itself isn't horrible. The problem is how Odd Paladin works the same every time, how Odd Rogue works the same every time. How Even Warlock works the same every time. How Odd Warrior works the same every time.
If your proposal is ONLY addressing Paladin, as if Baku would be suddenly fun and great for Standard and Wild afterwards, then I can understand them not using that idea.
That would basically gut the cards completely. The concept is that you are sacrificing your turn 1, 3, 5 play for the ability to hero power those turns instead. (or 2, 4, 6, so on). Not having a 2 drop AND not having a strong hero power, or not having a turn 1/3 play is basically conceding the game for decks that would have any reason to use them. No deck would use them with such a change.
Note that this isn't discrediting the idea, just marking what kind of change it will be: a nuke from orbit. Blizzard flat out said that HoFing the two early is on the table so the concept of just destroying the cards IS a thing that we can do to them. Some folks believe that the only reason why the cards haven't yet been changed to "Give your charge minions +1 attack" is because A LOT of people actually like the cards and will ragequit if they are changed. So they seem to be looking for a solution that works for everyone, probably with the option to just nuke the thing dead if they can't.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I get the concept, however, losing whatever early turn is null and void with all the comeback mechanisms/AOE that exists now. Being better than the opponent for the entire match because you subscribe for a restriction that doesn't even make a difference (odd/even) has obviously shown itself to be a problem, hence why people propose solutions. Rogue dagger can be a 2/1 or 1/2, if you really think that's a problem. I chose Odd Paladin because it's the worst offender. I disagree strongly that the modest restrictions I proposed would "basically concede the game"
Genn increased to 7 mana, Baku increased to 10. Problem solved! /thread
They should be 10 mana cards, plain and simple. Or 1 mana 1/1s. Or even more like a scroll/spell, so you effectively have one less minion. Idk if that is the best fix as I’m not a developer, but off the top of my head it seems good.
I thought a good card would be one with a battlecry that turns your opponent's hero power into the Priest one. It would probably be a Priest class card. But, the flavor seems pretty good to me. Spreading healing and peace and harmony. Would have been a nice counter to all those DKs.
I mean you could make it neutral if you wanted, but just a little hate for one class would probably swing things quite well.
Galavant Animation
Make them have amazing stats and upgrade/reduce cost of both hero powers. (I recognize this is probably a terrible idea but it would be fun)
Also, Baku vs genn would be crazy cause both players would have a 1 mana upgraded hero power
Honestly, I quite like them. Not necessarily for the effects as they are, but the whole idea behind even and odd decks is really interesting.
Could they have been less powerful? Sure. That being said, I don’t see them as game-breakingly OP either. Also comes to show in the meta. They are not bringing such absurd winrates or are as vastly over-represented as we have seen with some decks in the past.
you could also delay the baku effect till turn 3, so you miss your first use of it, though not sure thats effective enough