You locked the whole thread so that you didn't have to moderate it?
Isn't it normal to keep an eye on new threads since they get more activity?
The thread wasn't locked to avoid moderating it - the thread was locked because any discussion it could have inspired had come, gone and been left in the dust by people complaining about SJWs, casual racism and people complaining about how they can't stare at Jaina's boobs anymore.
There is no discussion to be had. Censorship is (generally) bad, yes. What else is going to be gained by allowing people to spout sexist jokes at each other?
My main issue is not that the discussion was not helpful (I've not read it), But that what is sexist is very hard to decide. My issue with it is that if they are covering Jaina, they should give the males the same respect. (Covering their chests, etc.) That seems sexist to me. I have no problem with the change, but if they are making one change to be more appropriate, they have no good reason to not make others, such as giving some armor to garrosh or something. Or, just leave them all alone.
Did you consult with any other mods before making your decision to close it since sexism is the kind of thing that can be hard to quantify? (It might be in this case, but that doesn't mean that the main topic was bad.)
They don’t have to call the whole council of mods to decide if something is sexist or not. Sexism is not allowed on this website and even if one mod takes the judgement that a thread is getting in the wrong direction and against the rules, they have all the rights to close it.
My main issue is not that the discussion was not helpful (I've not read it), But that what is sexist is very hard to decide. My issue with it is that if they are covering Jaina, they should give the males the same respect. (Covering their chests, etc.) That seems sexist to me. I have no problem with the change, but if they are making one change to be more appropriate, they have no good reason to not make others, such as giving some armor to garrosh or something. Or, just leave them all alone.
Did you consult with any other mods before making your decision to close it since sexism is the kind of thing that can be hard to quantify? (It might be in this case, but that doesn't mean that the main topic was bad.)
The thread was not locked because of whether or not Jaina's boobs being covered is sexist. The thread was locked for the sexist and racist comments which people left in response to the original post, which was just informing people that the change had been made.
The first few comments were fine, but offered no further discussion, simply reactions to the change. Since further comments then degraded, there was no reason to keep the thread open to attract further poor quality posts.
I do wonder if they will start censoring the external Jaina art now too, like on the posters, etc.? That would obvs impact sales, where we have more choice. Wonder why that didnt influence them here?
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"Its beyond my control." - Viscount Valmont, as played by John Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons
The thread was not locked because of whether or not Jaina's boobs being covered is sexist. The thread was locked for the sexist and racist comments which people left in response to the original post, which was just informing people that the change had been made.
The first few comments were fine, but offered no further discussion, simply reactions to the change. Since further comments then degraded, there was no reason to keep the thread open to attract further poor quality posts.
Just for record's sake, even though I shouldn't need to validate what Shadows says, it is correct.
The title of the thread also kind of invite these kinds of sexist reactionary comments. "Blizzard has reduced Jaina's hotness" implies that these changes are made in a vacuum and sudden and not because the art team has subtly moving away from using artwork or drawing their female character too explicitly. Just compare Valeera's artwork to Liadrin or Maiev's artwork.
really, If any art should be changed. its Valeera's. not necessarily for modesty's sake, but because her outfit is so impractical it makes me mad. sreiously. thigh high boots, bright red everything, feather on her hood?, and WINGS! WHY?? i just hate her outfit so much. please blizzard, make a really good, and free rogue hero skin so valeera can die.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
really, If any art should be changed. its Valeera's. not necessarily for modesty's sake, but because her outfit is so impractical it makes me mad. sreiously. thigh high boots, bright red everything, feather on her hood?, and WINGS! WHY?? i just hate her outfit so much. please blizzard, make a really good, and free rogue hero skin so valeera can die.
You have one. She's called Maeiv.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
The title of the thread also kind of invite these kinds of sexist reactionary comments. "Blizzard has reduced Jaina's hotness" implies that these changes are made in a vacuum and sudden and not because the art team has subtly moving away from using artwork or drawing their female character too explicitly. Just compare Valeera's artwork to Liadrin or Maiev's artwork.
Horrible comparison. The latter are warriors. FULL ARMOR warriors. Valeera's cleavage is covered by her hair and knives.
So, if the title was part of the problem, can the mods please start a better one, for discussion about whether they should be consistent in their changing of art?
The title of the thread also kind of invite these kinds of sexist reactionary comments. "Blizzard has reduced Jaina's hotness" implies that these changes are made in a vacuum and sudden and not because the art team has subtly moving away from using artwork or drawing their female character too explicitly. Just compare Valeera's artwork to Liadrin or Maiev's artwork.
Horrible comparison. The latter are warriors. FULL ARMOR warriors. Valeera's cleavage is covered by her hair and knives.
Not horrible comparision since Maiev and Valeera are supposed to represent the same class. Valeera's artwork despite the hair cover her cleavage is still drawn and framed to center the attention on her chin and chest area.
A more notable comparision would be to compare the most prominent female Legendary minions in the Classic set: Sylvanas Windrunner and the Dream and Ysera Awakens generated from Ysera. They are clearly more suggestive than most of the female Legendary drawn today. Just compare them to, say, Sonya Shadowdancer (form fitting but mostly obscured by the shadow) or Mojomaster Zihi (who most people didn't realize is a female until her voiceline).
I actually think the think that bugs me more is that now the Mage deck slot image is pushed far to the right and seems very unbalanced. Probably just me, but it’s aesthetically unpleasing next to the other decks.
HOW THE HELL DARE THEY?They nerfed the sexiness of the most badass, hot and awesome human female of WOW?!What's more annoying is that they didnt bother making a new portait for her so they could at least hide the fact. But no, they put a simple cover to our goddess' holy guns and call it a day! You stupid bastards, Crusades have started for less!!!!!!!
I wonder what the original artist thinks? Did they consent to this? Get paid for it? Probably not, probably a work for hire arrangement, where the owners are allowed to make whatever 'derivative' works they want. I know some women would consider this a form of 'shaming', to not use the full vernacular term.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Its beyond my control." - Viscount Valmont, as played by John Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons
I thought the original portrait was overly sexualized, so I am in favor of the change. Suggestiveness is classier than semi-nudity. I don't play WoW, but I have read that the Jaina character was known for her wisdom, courage, and history of struggles, and her looks were secondary.
Full disclosure: I'm a gay man, and cleavage doesn't do that much for me. Another personal bias is that I think both men and women should dress modestly in public, like buttoned-to-the-top modest. (Edit, yes my avatar is Lucy Heartfilia, and yes I hate how she is dressed in the anime/manga even though I like her.)
Of course, there is a lot of idealization in fantasy art, for both men and women. As many have pointed out, several of the male portraits have pictures hyper-muscular half-naked fantasy humanoid men.
Blizzard should directly address the censorship of the portrait. I would like to know the reasoning. Had they received complaints? Did they foresee a future problem? Are they going to be stricter about sexiness in future art releases?
really, If any art should be changed. its Valeera's. not necessarily for modesty's sake, but because her outfit is so impractical it makes me mad. sreiously. thigh high boots, bright red everything, feather on her hood?, and WINGS! WHY?? i just hate her outfit so much. please blizzard, make a really good, and free rogue hero skin so valeera can die.
there isnt any wings. those are shoulderplates. and no feather either. thats her hair.
ALSO jainas breasts look better now. a little secrecy makes everything better :^)
My main issue is not that the discussion was not helpful (I've not read it), But that what is sexist is very hard to decide. My issue with it is that if they are covering Jaina, they should give the males the same respect. (Covering their chests, etc.) That seems sexist to me. I have no problem with the change, but if they are making one change to be more appropriate, they have no good reason to not make others, such as giving some armor to garrosh or something. Or, just leave them all alone.
Did you consult with any other mods before making your decision to close it since sexism is the kind of thing that can be hard to quantify? (It might be in this case, but that doesn't mean that the main topic was bad.)
They don’t have to call the whole council of mods to decide if something is sexist or not. Sexism is not allowed on this website and even if one mod takes the judgement that a thread is getting in the wrong direction and against the rules, they have all the rights to close it.
The thread was not locked because of whether or not Jaina's boobs being covered is sexist. The thread was locked for the sexist and racist comments which people left in response to the original post, which was just informing people that the change had been made.
The first few comments were fine, but offered no further discussion, simply reactions to the change. Since further comments then degraded, there was no reason to keep the thread open to attract further poor quality posts.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
I do wonder if they will start censoring the external Jaina art now too, like on the posters, etc.? That would obvs impact sales, where we have more choice. Wonder why that didnt influence them here?
"Its beyond my control." - Viscount Valmont, as played by John Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons
Just for record's sake, even though I shouldn't need to validate what Shadows says, it is correct.
The title of the thread also kind of invite these kinds of sexist reactionary comments. "Blizzard has reduced Jaina's hotness" implies that these changes are made in a vacuum and sudden and not because the art team has subtly moving away from using artwork or drawing their female character too explicitly. Just compare Valeera's artwork to Liadrin or Maiev's artwork.
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
really, If any art should be changed. its Valeera's. not necessarily for modesty's sake, but because her outfit is so impractical it makes me mad. sreiously. thigh high boots, bright red everything, feather on her hood?, and WINGS! WHY?? i just hate her outfit so much. please blizzard, make a really good, and free rogue hero skin so valeera can die.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
You have one. She's called Maeiv.
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
Horrible comparison. The latter are warriors. FULL ARMOR warriors. Valeera's cleavage is covered by her hair and knives.
Fun > Meta
So, if the title was part of the problem, can the mods please start a better one, for discussion about whether they should be consistent in their changing of art?
Not horrible comparision since Maiev and Valeera are supposed to represent the same class. Valeera's artwork despite the hair cover her cleavage is still drawn and framed to center the attention on her chin and chest area.
A more notable comparision would be to compare the most prominent female Legendary minions in the Classic set: Sylvanas Windrunner and the Dream and Ysera Awakens generated from Ysera. They are clearly more suggestive than most of the female Legendary drawn today. Just compare them to, say, Sonya Shadowdancer (form fitting but mostly obscured by the shadow) or Mojomaster Zihi (who most people didn't realize is a female until her voiceline).
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
Puritanical pearl clutching bullshit.
Zero respect for artisitic integrity.
The game has been out 5 years, why censor (yes, censor) now? China? I don't think so, the game is still full of cleavage. I won't speculate.
I'll just state that I'm pissed off and disappointed with Blizzard, more than I have been for a long time.
I actually think the think that bugs me more is that now the Mage deck slot image is pushed far to the right and seems very unbalanced. Probably just me, but it’s aesthetically unpleasing next to the other decks.
.
I am done.
Nerf of fine cards like rogue Blade and paladin Equality I can take.
BS metas with OP classes I can take.
But this puritanism and censorship with a game picture is just pathetic.
Yes. I just checked every hero and all stayed the same except him. He received a green glow around his face and crown.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
HOW THE HELL DARE THEY?They nerfed the sexiness of the most badass, hot and awesome human female of WOW?!What's more annoying is that they didnt bother making a new portait for her so they could at least hide the fact. But no, they put a simple cover to our goddess' holy guns and call it a day! You stupid bastards, Crusades have started for less!!!!!!!
I wonder what the original artist thinks? Did they consent to this? Get paid for it? Probably not, probably a work for hire arrangement, where the owners are allowed to make whatever 'derivative' works they want. I know some women would consider this a form of 'shaming', to not use the full vernacular term.
"Its beyond my control." - Viscount Valmont, as played by John Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons
To think that changing the art of a female avatar was considered infinitely more important than nerfing Barnes...
I'm the OP, here's my comment:
I thought the original portrait was overly sexualized, so I am in favor of the change. Suggestiveness is classier than semi-nudity. I don't play WoW, but I have read that the Jaina character was known for her wisdom, courage, and history of struggles, and her looks were secondary.
Full disclosure: I'm a gay man, and cleavage doesn't do that much for me. Another personal bias is that I think both men and women should dress modestly in public, like buttoned-to-the-top modest. (Edit, yes my avatar is Lucy Heartfilia, and yes I hate how she is dressed in the anime/manga even though I like her.)
Of course, there is a lot of idealization in fantasy art, for both men and women. As many have pointed out, several of the male portraits have pictures hyper-muscular half-naked fantasy humanoid men.
Blizzard should directly address the censorship of the portrait. I would like to know the reasoning. Had they received complaints? Did they foresee a future problem? Are they going to be stricter about sexiness in future art releases?
there isnt any wings. those are shoulderplates. and no feather either. thats her hair.
ALSO jainas breasts look better now. a little secrecy makes everything better :^)