I think I need a new perspective on this card. I completely understand it's value in a deck running Spellstones, but other than that it's only served to disappoint me. More often than not I'm having to choose between 2-3 cards I really don't want to have to make a choice between. I know the argument of "think of the two you discard as cards that were gonna sit on the bottom of the deck undrawn", but in the case of DR Hunter specifically, that's potentially two minions you not only won't get a single copy of, but can no longer discover with Stitched Tracker.
I feel that decks should be flexible enough that you don't need to use Tracking for curve. I can understand the synergistic intentions of it as mentioned above - but now that DR Hunter is effectively losing Hunter's Mark and making Candleshot redundant, I've decided I'd rather run some more DR cards to reduce my chances of having to play a non-activated Terrorscale, or have a Play Dead sit in my hand early.
it's a draw for 1 mana, it had to have a downside, every card that ever drew a card for 1 mana had to be nerfed, Shiv, Flare and prerelease Purify, because drawng for 1 mana is actually really really powerful, not only that with tracking, you actually get to choose your draw. so yeah, it had to have a downside.
Hunter does not play combo decks, so it does not care about burning 2 cards. It's basically a draw one, except you get to choose the strongest between three. It's very flexible and nearly autoinclude in most hunter decks because of that.
hunter does not have much draw, and tracking not only draws. but also thins out your deck to make drawing other cards (such as reach cards to end the game) more consistent.
the only negative to this card is that you lose the other 2. but pulling a card out of your deck does not change the board. if you absolutely need one specific card to win, then you pick that. and if you get 2-3 cards you absolutely need to have in order to win. then that is unlucky. and you should change that.
basically it is draw, and it makes the rest of your draw more consistent. don't dwell on what you don't have, because not drawing something should not have a huge impact on the board, especially in a aggro class like hunter, and when you can pick the cards you don't draw.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I'm with you. I recognise that it's good and that the pros use it and so on, but I just hate discarding the unpicked cards. I know it's not rational, but I just don't include it in my decks, because I know that if I do it sits in my hand as a dead card because I don't play it.
As a class without much draw that can run out of steam quickly, waiting 1-3 turns for that essential draw is game losing. Getting that card with only one mana at the sacrifice of losing two cards from the deck is often well worth it. Not to mention, sometimes you'll be thinning your deck of bad draws like candleshot in the late game where you really don't need it anymore, bringing all your heavy hitters 2 draws closer.
Look at the statistics of the card. As long as the pros are using Tracking , it is likely worth the inclusion. The feeling that you always have to decide between good cards is probably confirmation bias. In most games it is more important to get a certain card NOW and not lose the present game than having the discarded cards still in the deck and maybe fish them out with stitched tracker.
The only time tracking is actually useless (or even dangerous to use) is in matchups which will go to fatigue (e.g. Odd Warrior). And maybe using it with Zul'jin can also lead to fatigue issues.
That said, I also do not like tracking and I rarely use the card in my Hunter decks for the same reasons you pointed out. However, I know that I am most likely wrong in doing so. But I feel better and that's enough reason for me...
Tracking is brilliant. I hate when hunters play it, because usually it means my breathing space is over, or my pressure is going to get worse. Also if you think "lucky top deck lost me the game, how did he get both kill commands when he needed them", well more often than not I guess it's because he tracked the cards he'd need to win.
It's probably a little worse for DR hunter with the stitched tracker and Kathrena
BUT
1 mana draw is good? 1 mana discover from your deck is really, really, good. Especially when there are things you really want to get like DK rexxar, Zul'Jin, spellstone, to my side, burn for lethal, on-curve play.
If you still don't like it though, don't play it! That's why the decks aren't premade for you! :)
The very first thread I posted on this site more than 2.5 years ago was trying to tell people that they were wrong for not playing tracking in basically every hunter deck. I still hold that opinion.
Unless we are in a world where fatigue is happening all the time, Tracking should be in your hunter.
it's a draw for 1 mana, it had to have a downside, every card that ever drew a card for 1 mana had to be nerfed, Shiv, Flare and prerelease Purify, because drawng for 1 mana is actually really really powerful, not only that with tracking, you actually get to choose your draw. so yeah, it had to have a downside.
Look at it this way. It’s draw a card for 1 mana and thin your deck of the least useful stuff at that point.
Yes ocassionally you get a pick of 3 cards you really wanted but for the most part you get to pick the most influential card and just dump some cards that just going to be bad draws/top decks later on. It allows you to find that final Kill Command or that Highmane and dump the crappy dire mole that would be a terrible top deck.
Trackings negative is usually actually a positive. Often only matters in fatigue matchups and rarely give you 3 really good cards that you will want.
I think I need a new perspective on this card. I completely understand it's value in a deck running Spellstones, but other than that it's only served to disappoint me. More often than not I'm having to choose between 2-3 cards I really don't want to have to make a choice between. I know the argument of "think of the two you discard as cards that were gonna sit on the bottom of the deck undrawn", but in the case of DR Hunter specifically, that's potentially two minions you not only won't get a single copy of, but can no longer discover with Stitched Tracker.
I feel that decks should be flexible enough that you don't need to use Tracking for curve. I can understand the synergistic intentions of it as mentioned above - but now that DR Hunter is effectively losing Hunter's Mark and making Candleshot redundant, I've decided I'd rather run some more DR cards to reduce my chances of having to play a non-activated Terrorscale, or have a Play Dead sit in my hand early.
It's a "Cycle 1 card for 1 mana, and burn 2 random cards out of your deck for no apparent reason". So no... I won't be trying to change your mind. It's a terrible card and I laugh whenever my opponent plays it - even more so when they take more than a few seconds to choose what card they want because you know at that moment they just got given the choice from helll! Hah!
I think I need a new perspective on this card. I completely understand it's value in a deck running Spellstones, but other than that it's only served to disappoint me. More often than not I'm having to choose between 2-3 cards I really don't want to have to make a choice between. I know the argument of "think of the two you discard as cards that were gonna sit on the bottom of the deck undrawn", but in the case of DR Hunter specifically, that's potentially two minions you not only won't get a single copy of, but can no longer discover with Stitched Tracker.
I feel that decks should be flexible enough that you don't need to use Tracking for curve. I can understand the synergistic intentions of it as mentioned above - but now that DR Hunter is effectively losing Hunter's Mark and making Candleshot redundant, I've decided I'd rather run some more DR cards to reduce my chances of having to play a non-activated Terrorscale, or have a Play Dead sit in my hand early.
It's a "Cycle 1 card for 1 mana, and burn 2 random cards out of your deck for no apparent reason". So no... I won't be trying to change your mind. It's a terrible card and I laugh whenever my opponent plays it - even more so when they take more than a few seconds to choose what card they want because you know at that moment they just got given the choice from helll! Hah!
If you can’t see the merits of the card then you don’t understand why cycling and thinning your deck is so powerful.
Thanks for such an exuberant response to the topic! FYI Xynot "Change My Mind" is a term used to start a discussion I do believe - don't go making assumptions about my perceived lack of experience ;)
Some very good and valid points made. I feel as though I can counter most of them though. This isn't an anti-Tracking thread btw, the purpose is to discuss the pros and cons of the card so I can be better informed about it's value in a deck - it's education :D
So.....I'll start with the "1 mana draw". Sure, draw is great - but if you didn't have Tracking, you'd have just drawn the card that you're now spending 1 mana to have a 1 in 3 chance of drawing. I have trouble comprehending the value of a card that just draws one card. It literally costs you to do what would've happened naturally if the card wasn't in the deck.
"A class without much draw" Refer above.
"Thins out the deck" True, it does. But that's a double-edged sword. Yes, confirmation bias exists, but you've got an equal chance of thinning out the deck in favour of your situation, and thinning out the deck in a detrimental way. Sure if the deck is weighted more to the early or late game you have a higher probability of thinning out to that part of the curve, but overall statistically there should be no net benefit to thinning the deck as all cards are random.
"Get a certain card NOW" Can't counter that point - a very good one, and I think the ONLY valid reason to run Tracking. Is the direct and implied cost worth it though? Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not.
"Lucky top deck lost me the game" Just wanted to respond to this specific scenario - KC is usually drawn and hoarded for the final kill. Sometimes you draw it (or 2nd one) at the point of lethal, but often it's set up over a few turns. Tracking picks up the next three cards to be drawn from the deck, so at worst you're getting that KC in two turns time. Now of course a lot can happen in two turns, but there are also scenarios where two KCs come up in one Tracking and conversely cost you the game.
"Things you really want" Definitely agree with the value of Tracking for Spellstone/spell synergies - but rest of the time I feel it's value is more in a defensive Hail Mary. A lot of the time I see it as "well, got 1 mana left this turn, let's see what I can get" as well.
Not knocking ANY of the responses, they're all great - thank you everyone! I just like (need) to play Devil's Advocate so I can truly understand the value or something. If I don't do that, I can't grasp the concept. Not just with Hearthstone!
It's a "Cycle 1 card for 1 mana, and burn 2 random cards out of your deck for no apparent reason". So no... I won't be trying to change your mind. It's a terrible card and I laugh whenever my opponent plays it - even more so when they take more than a few seconds to choose what card they want because you know at that moment they just got given the choice from helll! Hah!
I think I need a new perspective on this card. I completely understand it's value in a deck running Spellstones, but other than that it's only served to disappoint me. More often than not I'm having to choose between 2-3 cards I really don't want to have to make a choice between. I know the argument of "think of the two you discard as cards that were gonna sit on the bottom of the deck undrawn", but in the case of DR Hunter specifically, that's potentially two minions you not only won't get a single copy of, but can no longer discover with Stitched Tracker.
I feel that decks should be flexible enough that you don't need to use Tracking for curve. I can understand the synergistic intentions of it as mentioned above - but now that DR Hunter is effectively losing Hunter's Mark and making Candleshot redundant, I've decided I'd rather run some more DR cards to reduce my chances of having to play a non-activated Terrorscale, or have a Play Dead sit in my hand early.
It's a "Cycle 1 card for 1 mana, and burn 2 random cards out of your deck for no apparent reason". So no... I won't be trying to change your mind. It's a terrible card and I laugh whenever my opponent plays it - even more so when they take more than a few seconds to choose what card they want because you know at that moment they just got given the choice from helll! Hah!
If you can’t see the merits of the card then you don’t understand why cycling and thinning your deck is so powerful.
Ok, I'll bite. Tell me why you think paying 1 mana to lose the best cards in your deck is "powerful"?
I do love when people use the "I don't agree with you so that means you must not understand sumfink, innit!" trope... /smh
I think I need a new perspective on this card. I completely understand it's value in a deck running Spellstones, but other than that it's only served to disappoint me. More often than not I'm having to choose between 2-3 cards I really don't want to have to make a choice between. I know the argument of "think of the two you discard as cards that were gonna sit on the bottom of the deck undrawn", but in the case of DR Hunter specifically, that's potentially two minions you not only won't get a single copy of, but can no longer discover with Stitched Tracker.
I feel that decks should be flexible enough that you don't need to use Tracking for curve. I can understand the synergistic intentions of it as mentioned above - but now that DR Hunter is effectively losing Hunter's Mark and making Candleshot redundant, I've decided I'd rather run some more DR cards to reduce my chances of having to play a non-activated Terrorscale, or have a Play Dead sit in my hand early.
it's a draw for 1 mana, it had to have a downside, every card that ever drew a card for 1 mana had to be nerfed, Shiv, Flare and prerelease Purify, because drawng for 1 mana is actually really really powerful, not only that with tracking, you actually get to choose your draw. so yeah, it had to have a downside.
i would play tracking in every deck in every class, all the time
Hunter does not play combo decks, so it does not care about burning 2 cards. It's basically a draw one, except you get to choose the strongest between three. It's very flexible and nearly autoinclude in most hunter decks because of that.
hunter does not have much draw, and tracking not only draws. but also thins out your deck to make drawing other cards (such as reach cards to end the game) more consistent.
the only negative to this card is that you lose the other 2. but pulling a card out of your deck does not change the board. if you absolutely need one specific card to win, then you pick that. and if you get 2-3 cards you absolutely need to have in order to win. then that is unlucky. and you should change that.
basically it is draw, and it makes the rest of your draw more consistent. don't dwell on what you don't have, because not drawing something should not have a huge impact on the board, especially in a aggro class like hunter, and when you can pick the cards you don't draw.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I'm with you. I recognise that it's good and that the pros use it and so on, but I just hate discarding the unpicked cards. I know it's not rational, but I just don't include it in my decks, because I know that if I do it sits in my hand as a dead card because I don't play it.
As a class without much draw that can run out of steam quickly, waiting 1-3 turns for that essential draw is game losing. Getting that card with only one mana at the sacrifice of losing two cards from the deck is often well worth it. Not to mention, sometimes you'll be thinning your deck of bad draws like candleshot in the late game where you really don't need it anymore, bringing all your heavy hitters 2 draws closer.
I never play this card. I prefer slow hunter decks and burning my cards is not a good idea.
Look at the statistics of the card. As long as the pros are using Tracking , it is likely worth the inclusion. The feeling that you always have to decide between good cards is probably confirmation bias. In most games it is more important to get a certain card NOW and not lose the present game than having the discarded cards still in the deck and maybe fish them out with stitched tracker.
The only time tracking is actually useless (or even dangerous to use) is in matchups which will go to fatigue (e.g. Odd Warrior). And maybe using it with Zul'jin can also lead to fatigue issues.
That said, I also do not like tracking and I rarely use the card in my Hunter decks for the same reasons you pointed out. However, I know that I am most likely wrong in doing so. But I feel better and that's enough reason for me...
Can't convince you, only more experience at the game can do that.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Tracking is brilliant. I hate when hunters play it, because usually it means my breathing space is over, or my pressure is going to get worse. Also if you think "lucky top deck lost me the game, how did he get both kill commands when he needed them", well more often than not I guess it's because he tracked the cards he'd need to win.
It's probably a little worse for DR hunter with the stitched tracker and Kathrena
BUT
1 mana draw is good? 1 mana discover from your deck is really, really, good.
Especially when there are things you really want to get like DK rexxar, Zul'Jin, spellstone, to my side, burn for lethal, on-curve play.
If you still don't like it though, don't play it! That's why the decks aren't premade for you! :)
The very first thread I posted on this site more than 2.5 years ago was trying to tell people that they were wrong for not playing tracking in basically every hunter deck. I still hold that opinion.
Unless we are in a world where fatigue is happening all the time, Tracking should be in your hunter.
Are you forgetting Power sword: Shield???
Look at it this way. It’s draw a card for 1 mana and thin your deck of the least useful stuff at that point.
Yes ocassionally you get a pick of 3 cards you really wanted but for the most part you get to pick the most influential card and just dump some cards that just going to be bad draws/top decks later on. It allows you to find that final Kill Command or that Highmane and dump the crappy dire mole that would be a terrible top deck.
Trackings negative is usually actually a positive. Often only matters in fatigue matchups and rarely give you 3 really good cards that you will want.
It's a "Cycle 1 card for 1 mana, and burn 2 random cards out of your deck for no apparent reason".
So no... I won't be trying to change your mind.
It's a terrible card and I laugh whenever my opponent plays it - even more so when they take more than a few seconds to choose what card they want because you know at that moment they just got given the choice from helll!
Hah!
If you can’t see the merits of the card then you don’t understand why cycling and thinning your deck is so powerful.
Thanks for such an exuberant response to the topic! FYI Xynot "Change My Mind" is a term used to start a discussion I do believe - don't go making assumptions about my perceived lack of experience ;)
Some very good and valid points made. I feel as though I can counter most of them though. This isn't an anti-Tracking thread btw, the purpose is to discuss the pros and cons of the card so I can be better informed about it's value in a deck - it's education :D
So.....I'll start with the "1 mana draw".
Sure, draw is great - but if you didn't have Tracking, you'd have just drawn the card that you're now spending 1 mana to have a 1 in 3 chance of drawing. I have trouble comprehending the value of a card that just draws one card. It literally costs you to do what would've happened naturally if the card wasn't in the deck.
"A class without much draw"
Refer above.
"Thins out the deck"
True, it does. But that's a double-edged sword. Yes, confirmation bias exists, but you've got an equal chance of thinning out the deck in favour of your situation, and thinning out the deck in a detrimental way. Sure if the deck is weighted more to the early or late game you have a higher probability of thinning out to that part of the curve, but overall statistically there should be no net benefit to thinning the deck as all cards are random.
"Get a certain card NOW"
Can't counter that point - a very good one, and I think the ONLY valid reason to run Tracking. Is the direct and implied cost worth it though? Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not.
"Lucky top deck lost me the game"
Just wanted to respond to this specific scenario - KC is usually drawn and hoarded for the final kill. Sometimes you draw it (or 2nd one) at the point of lethal, but often it's set up over a few turns. Tracking picks up the next three cards to be drawn from the deck, so at worst you're getting that KC in two turns time. Now of course a lot can happen in two turns, but there are also scenarios where two KCs come up in one Tracking and conversely cost you the game.
"Things you really want"
Definitely agree with the value of Tracking for Spellstone/spell synergies - but rest of the time I feel it's value is more in a defensive Hail Mary. A lot of the time I see it as "well, got 1 mana left this turn, let's see what I can get" as well.
Not knocking ANY of the responses, they're all great - thank you everyone! I just like (need) to play Devil's Advocate so I can truly understand the value or something. If I don't do that, I can't grasp the concept. Not just with Hearthstone!
Let's be friends :D
Ok, I'll bite. Tell me why you think paying 1 mana to lose the best cards in your deck is "powerful"?
I do love when people use the "I don't agree with you so that means you must not understand sumfink, innit!" trope... /smh