I totally understand the difficulty of balancing cards in hearthstone, it's insane. But there are just A LOT of good ideas that were buried because just because it would lose to 2/2 weapons or Zombeast or whatever. Just ask yourself, have played these cards on rank? So here are some of my personal suggestions. I tried to consider both the flavor and fun of the card as well as balance. Feel free to leave your suggestions too.
I also totally get that you can't just make all cards powerful and there still has to be some fillers to make pack opening or RNG exciting. But some good ideas and interesting game mechanics just shouldn't be buried in my opinion. Remember the Weasel Priest? Isn't it really fun to have a funny but competitive deck occasionally instead of giving us TONS of "fun little challenges" just to pull off some impossible meme OTKs just for some little funny videos? (I mean they're great but it's way too much)
I'll only go over Standard cards cuz there're just too many.
Ozruk10/5/5 but change to Summon a copy of this minion for each Elemental ...
Health just doesn't matter after a peak. Not only is this change more impactful and stronger, but it also keeps the flavor of making you decide how to balance up your turns for the Ozruk turn. It may sound like you can create a board full of 5/5 taunts but remember playing elementals also takes board spaces. It also brings back Shudderwock in a limited and balanced way, you may still pull off a crazy turn and tons of Shudderwock, but it isn't really infinite and it's gonna be harder.
Pretty crazy idea, but the idea came from that the reviving really just doesn't matter too much to an extent in the late game. This isn't like Poggo which it goes infinitely high cuz every revive only look at the one it was revived from. So though it'd be a nerf in case like Twilight's Call but a buff in some other cases cuz buff spells' effect actually lasts.
Valeera the HollowGive Stealth to all friendly characters (which includes Hero) for a turn instead of just Hero
This could open up much more possibility of utility for this one of least played Hero cards. Plus, it's still 9 mana so it wouldn't make consistent OTKs.
The Runespear6 Mana, change to After attack, Discover a spell you've played in this game
8 is just ridiculous. I think 6 is pretty reasonable by taking away the immediate casting of the spell. It's actually not that crazy when you really imagine it. You'll have to first play your for example Bloodlust once, and draw and play the spear another turn which you'd probably put yourself in danger cuz you just spent 6 on a 3/3 weapon, and then cast the new Bloodlust another turn, and all that combined with drawing chances. Shaman really just depends on that one UnstableE or Volcano or Bloodlust, and it just feels good to be able to have an extra. This also adds a strategic flavor to Deck building and when to play the card. 6 mana prevents using the new Bloodlust or Vocalno on the same turn.
6 Mana is already quite hard to Combo, but cheaper would make it kinda scary since it could be a sap with a body which is some pretty good tempo. 6/4 I think isn't too scary on turn 6 and it keeps the scary Kidnapper flavor.
Moorabi4/2/3 instead of 6/4/4, Whenever "A" Minion instead of Another Minion
The Legend. I just don't get it, Blizzard. Why make such a cool, interesting, new archetype so shit that it's just straight up unplayable and ruins a whole class for the set. 6 Mana is just way too much to make any meaningful combo. The "A" change is super significant cuz it allows you to copy Moorabi itself too. It could sound a little crazy but remember freezing cards aren't actually that much so it's actually not Infinite resource. But this "almost infinite" resource most importantly gives the archetype kinda a win condition, FINALLY.
I don't get it, another just straight up dead card. Yeah I know somebody actually pulled off some insane OTK with it and it's an "interesting challenge" but that's just memes, not even viable memes. I'm pretty sure you still can't pull off a viable OTK even with Rogue with 5 Mana with this but at least it can probably be a decent finisher for perhaps Miracle decks or just a cool tempo play.
3 is just crazy, and plus the spellstone has to be in your hand. The effect isn't even that good, and Rogue already lacks board control and board clear enough.
Again, I don't get it, I remember they even used it in the reveal like "Woah look how cool this new set is, it has a shitty unplayable Moth!" Making it smaller makes it more playable and favorable in many situations. Even just a Northshire that's left on T3 makes it kinda worth it to play it.
Windshear Stormcaller10/1/1 instead of 5/5/5, change to Battlecry: ..., turn all your totems into Al'Akir the Windlord
10/1/1 to prevent OTKs or op combos, and it's a pretty funny stat thematically. Having all 4 on the board is just not that easy, it may seem possible occasionally now cuz people won't play around this card. This change would just make it so much cooler and interesting. It would probably still be a meme, but it'd be a much more interesting meme.
Astral Tiger4/5 instead of 3/5 OR just have StealthorTaunt or both
The card is a super interesting idea, if it works, like why would you need infinite 3/5s when there's like an 8/12 lifesteal zombeast on the other side. Also, it wouldn't actually be as strong as Jades or even Poggos since Druid don't actually have that much copying mechanics other than Cube and Floop. Plus all can be silenced which kills the whole thing.
Deathaxe Punisher4/3/3 but change to All Lifesteal minions in your hand or All Friendly Lifesteal minions instead of one random in hand
This could make Lifesteal so much more interesting or maybe even encourage Lifesteal archetypes. Strongshell Scavenger is theoretically much stronger than this but it's rarely played so I'm pretty sure this'd be fine. This could possibly help for Classes that lacks heal and uses Lifesteals to do so.
Prince Valanar Just adding a Divine Shield or Poisonous or whatever would make it so much more playable.
Not only does it also almost must rely on other cards, but you'll also have to take quite a lot of face damage. Making it costs too much makes it really hard to play it since you lose a lot of tempo if you don't have freezing cards in hand or anytime soon.
wow you have really thought about this... I didn't even read them all, ha ha.
you have some fair ideas though... I'd most like to see your idea for valeera the hollow implemented though as she would then see more play. She's my favourite DK and she's in like 3 of my decks and they all have lower than 40% winrates.
TBH I'm really starting to hope proper gets HoF'd so Rogue can be free of the oppressive shackles of having everything designed around 1 card.
I do believe that if there were no prep, decks like pogo hopper and tesspionage would have been supported better and would be more successful because of it.
at the same time I know removing prep will kill everything but the most aggressive rogue decks without huge balance update to existing rogue cards. but any future cards created post HoF of prep would be better in the long run.
I am so happy you are not working on the balancing team in T5, sir. Nice OP suggestions tho. It was a fun read. I am not sure if you are not trolling to the max tho :(. Trolls are getting so creative these days, it's hard to tell them apart.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
Terrible suggestions. Nothing to add. You want to buff some cards and instead of buffing them you are nerfing them. And broken buffs for other. Bad ideas.
Good post and some good (and bad..) suggestions, we need diversity in the game and it's just stupid that most cards not see any play.
The rude comments by people here are just terrible.
Name one good idea. I dare you. The only reasonable change can be Ancient of Lore, but all the other cards are changed to aggro god tier.
Both OP and you miss the point that
1) Card that should be buffed are cards that see ZERO play, and not just little
2) Buffing a card should make it a reasonable choice while building your deck, not an overpowered autoinclude minion/spell
3) The reason behind buffing a card should be its playrate and not "I don't understand why" or "It's cool": you buff with a goal in your mind, and not just because of yes
Comments aren't rude: it's just the truth. Everyone agrees that Blizzard should buff some cards, but the targets of these changes should be minions like Arcane Golem, not Deathwing or every other card posted, which are nearly perfect the way they are.
While I strongly disagree with the vast majority of your suggestions, I don't want to just be mean and leave. Instead, I think you should rethink your changes based around the following questions:
1) Why should this card be buffed as opposed to either buffing another card or adding a new card to the game?
2) What are the potential positive and negative effects of making this buff? What other cards will see more/less play as a result? What future cards cannot be released because of this change?
3) Do the benefits of the buff outweigh the negatives? This shouldn't just be based on your opinion, but factoring in the opinions of other players and the meta.
4) Is the new buffed version consistent with the power curve of the game? Does the new version create broken combos with existing cards?
Also, as a rule of thumb, cards deserving of a buff are cards that have never seen significant play and are unlikely to ever see significant play in the future. So cards like Deathwing probly shouldn't be buffed since they have seen play, but cards like Moorabi are likely safer targets.
Hopefully this helps you as you iterate on your suggestions.
My favorite part is how if the suggested stuff does go through,Windshear Stormcaller literally summons 40 damage worth of stuff.
Aside from that, many of these balance changes just reek of never having touched the cards before. Forest Guide would be insane if it had stealth because 6 health makes it pretty much untouchable by AoE and the effect is overwhelming. Same goes to Mist wraith, who's only actual issue is that there is currently a lot of hard removal in the format. Seeping Oozeling was overcosted because the fact there is powerful deathrattles literally in the same set, such as Kathrena Winterwisp. Crushing Walls and Al'Akir the Windlord both do see some play so I dont understand why you'd want to just make them even better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Altough i would like to see blizzard buffing some horrible cards i don't think this is going anywhere. I'm looking at cards like silver patriarc and similar cards. Yes scurgelord garosh is probably the worst DK of all classes and it could of been done better but i'm talking about the cards we will never see play. Maybe a lot of people don't have a problem with that and thats ok because everyone should have theyre own opinion but cards that don't see play and especially when they're class cards it's a waste of cardslot. Sometimes they were bad at release or sometimes they were bad because of a nerf that destroyed a card so bad that it's not played at all ...
will we ever see that? I'd hope but thats all we can do but i still doupt they will because it's to much work for them :/ sad but what can we do we're mearly customers;P
Edited your thread title to remove the unnecessary start.
As for your suggestions, I'm surprised nobody has explained yet why bad cards exist. I guess because a lot of the cards you suggested buffing aren't even anywhere near the worst cards in the game, and then you proceeded to break most of them by either making them incredibly overtuned or actually worse somehow.
Anyway, have a read at these articles here and here. They're for Magic: The Gathering, but they pretty accurately explain why bad cards exist for all card games, just as bad weapons and armor exist in Adventure games or like, bad Pokémon exist.
I totally understand the difficulty of balancing cards in hearthstone, it's insane. But there are just A LOT of good ideas that were buried because just because it would lose to 2/2 weapons or Zombeast or whatever. Just ask yourself, have played these cards on rank? So here are some of my personal suggestions. I tried to consider both the flavor and fun of the card as well as balance. Feel free to leave your suggestions too.
I also totally get that you can't just make all cards powerful and there still has to be some fillers to make pack opening or RNG exciting. But some good ideas and interesting game mechanics just shouldn't be buried in my opinion. Remember the Weasel Priest? Isn't it really fun to have a funny but competitive deck occasionally instead of giving us TONS of "fun little challenges" just to pull off some impossible meme OTKs just for some little funny videos? (I mean they're great but it's way too much)
I'll only go over Standard cards cuz there're just too many.
Ozruk 10/5/5 but change to Summon a copy of this minion for each Elemental ...
Health just doesn't matter after a peak. Not only is this change more impactful and stronger, but it also keeps the flavor of making you decide how to balance up your turns for the Ozruk turn. It may sound like you can create a board full of 5/5 taunts but remember playing elementals also takes board spaces. It also brings back Shudderwock in a limited and balanced way, you may still pull off a crazy turn and tons of Shudderwock, but it isn't really infinite and it's gonna be harder.
Zerek, Master Cloner 6/4/4 but add ... resummon it with +1/+1
Pretty crazy idea, but the idea came from that the reviving really just doesn't matter too much to an extent in the late game. This isn't like Poggo which it goes infinitely high cuz every revive only look at the one it was revived from. So though it'd be a nerf in case like Twilight's Call but a buff in some other cases cuz buff spells' effect actually lasts.
Valeera the Hollow Give Stealth to all friendly characters (which includes Hero) for a turn instead of just Hero
This could open up much more possibility of utility for this one of least played Hero cards. Plus, it's still 9 mana so it wouldn't make consistent OTKs.
The Runespear 6 Mana, change to After attack, Discover a spell you've played in this game
8 is just ridiculous. I think 6 is pretty reasonable by taking away the immediate casting of the spell. It's actually not that crazy when you really imagine it. You'll have to first play your for example Bloodlust once, and draw and play the spear another turn which you'd probably put yourself in danger cuz you just spent 6 on a 3/3 weapon, and then cast the new Bloodlust another turn, and all that combined with drawing chances. Shaman really just depends on that one UnstableE or Volcano or Bloodlust, and it just feels good to be able to have an extra. This also adds a strategic flavor to Deck building and when to play the card. 6 mana prevents using the new Bloodlust or Vocalno on the same turn.
Dr. Morrigan 7 or 6 Mana instead of 8
It's basically a dead card. This could potentially make it a stronger Possessed Lackey with higher flexibility.
Giggling Inventor 7/3/2 instead of 7/2/1
credits to beppe946
Kidnapper 5/4/3 instead of 6/5/3
6 Mana is already quite hard to Combo, but cheaper would make it kinda scary since it could be a sap with a body which is some pretty good tempo. 6/4 I think isn't too scary on turn 6 and it keeps the scary Kidnapper flavor.
Moorabi 4/2/3 instead of 6/4/4, Whenever "A" Minion instead of Another Minion
The Legend. I just don't get it, Blizzard. Why make such a cool, interesting, new archetype so shit that it's just straight up unplayable and ruins a whole class for the set. 6 Mana is just way too much to make any meaningful combo. The "A" change is super significant cuz it allows you to copy Moorabi itself too. It could sound a little crazy but remember freezing cards aren't actually that much so it's actually not Infinite resource. But this "almost infinite" resource most importantly gives the archetype kinda a win condition, FINALLY.
Spectral Pillager 5/4/4 instead of 6/5/5
I don't get it, another just straight up dead card. Yeah I know somebody actually pulled off some insane OTK with it and it's an "interesting challenge" but that's just memes, not even viable memes. I'm pretty sure you still can't pull off a viable OTK even with Rogue with 5 Mana with this but at least it can probably be a decent finisher for perhaps Miracle decks or just a cool tempo play.
Lesser Onyx Spellstone upgrade with 2 Deathrattle cards played instead of 3
3 is just crazy, and plus the spellstone has to be in your hand. The effect isn't even that good, and Rogue already lacks board control and board clear enough.
Glitter Moth 3/2/2 or just anything smaller
Again, I don't get it, I remember they even used it in the reveal like "Woah look how cool this new set is, it has a shitty unplayable Moth!" Making it smaller makes it more playable and favorable in many situations. Even just a Northshire that's left on T3 makes it kinda worth it to play it.
Windshear Stormcaller 10/1/1 instead of 5/5/5, change to Battlecry: ..., turn all your totems into Al'Akir the Windlord
10/1/1 to prevent OTKs or op combos, and it's a pretty funny stat thematically. Having all 4 on the board is just not that easy, it may seem possible occasionally now cuz people won't play around this card. This change would just make it so much cooler and interesting. It would probably still be a meme, but it'd be a much more interesting meme.
Astral Tiger 4/5 instead of 3/5 OR just have Stealth or Taunt or both
The card is a super interesting idea, if it works, like why would you need infinite 3/5s when there's like an 8/12 lifesteal zombeast on the other side. Also, it wouldn't actually be as strong as Jades or even Poggos since Druid don't actually have that much copying mechanics other than Cube and Floop. Plus all can be silenced which kills the whole thing.
Deathaxe Punisher 4/3/3 but change to All Lifesteal minions in your hand or All Friendly Lifesteal minions instead of one random in hand
This could make Lifesteal so much more interesting or maybe even encourage Lifesteal archetypes. Strongshell Scavenger is theoretically much stronger than this but it's rarely played so I'm pretty sure this'd be fine. This could possibly help for Classes that lacks heal and uses Lifesteals to do so.
Prince Valanar Just adding a Divine Shield or Poisonous or whatever would make it so much more playable.
Ice Breaker 2 Mana instead of 3
Not only does it also almost must rely on other cards, but you'll also have to take quite a lot of face damage. Making it costs too much makes it really hard to play it since you lose a lot of tempo if you don't have freezing cards in hand or anytime soon.
Such terrible suggestions...
Do you even know what game balance is? For fuck's sake, although Blizzard should buff some card, not all minions can be at The Lich King power level
wow you have really thought about this... I didn't even read them all, ha ha.
you have some fair ideas though... I'd most like to see your idea for valeera the hollow implemented though as she would then see more play. She's my favourite DK and she's in like 3 of my decks and they all have lower than 40% winrates.
TBH I'm really starting to hope proper gets HoF'd so Rogue can be free of the oppressive shackles of having everything designed around 1 card.
I do believe that if there were no prep, decks like pogo hopper and tesspionage would have been supported better and would be more successful because of it.
at the same time I know removing prep will kill everything but the most aggressive rogue decks without huge balance update to existing rogue cards. but any future cards created post HoF of prep would be better in the long run.
sorry I went off on a tangent there.
I am so happy you are not working on the balancing team in T5, sir. Nice OP suggestions tho. It was a fun read. I am not sure if you are not trolling to the max tho :(. Trolls are getting so creative these days, it's hard to tell them apart.
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
Terrible suggestions. Nothing to add. You want to buff some cards and instead of buffing them you are nerfing them. And broken buffs for other. Bad ideas.
I stopped reading at deathwing : discard your deck lol
Good post and some good (and bad..) suggestions, we need diversity in the game and it's just stupid that most cards not see any play.
The rude comments by people here are just terrible.
This is why you won't work in blizzard ever.
You know nothing.
Name one good idea. I dare you. The only reasonable change can be Ancient of Lore, but all the other cards are changed to aggro god tier.
Both OP and you miss the point that
1) Card that should be buffed are cards that see ZERO play, and not just little
2) Buffing a card should make it a reasonable choice while building your deck, not an overpowered autoinclude minion/spell
3) The reason behind buffing a card should be its playrate and not "I don't understand why" or "It's cool": you buff with a goal in your mind, and not just because of yes
Comments aren't rude: it's just the truth. Everyone agrees that Blizzard should buff some cards, but the targets of these changes should be minions like Arcane Golem, not Deathwing or every other card posted, which are nearly perfect the way they are.
Bad bad bad... not sure if you're serious
You do realise that then valeera would be completely broken and make OTK decks viable...
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
While I strongly disagree with the vast majority of your suggestions, I don't want to just be mean and leave. Instead, I think you should rethink your changes based around the following questions:
1) Why should this card be buffed as opposed to either buffing another card or adding a new card to the game?
2) What are the potential positive and negative effects of making this buff? What other cards will see more/less play as a result? What future cards cannot be released because of this change?
3) Do the benefits of the buff outweigh the negatives? This shouldn't just be based on your opinion, but factoring in the opinions of other players and the meta.
4) Is the new buffed version consistent with the power curve of the game? Does the new version create broken combos with existing cards?
Also, as a rule of thumb, cards deserving of a buff are cards that have never seen significant play and are unlikely to ever see significant play in the future. So cards like Deathwing probly shouldn't be buffed since they have seen play, but cards like Moorabi are likely safer targets.
Hopefully this helps you as you iterate on your suggestions.
My favorite part is how if the suggested stuff does go through,Windshear Stormcaller literally summons 40 damage worth of stuff.
Aside from that, many of these balance changes just reek of never having touched the cards before. Forest Guide would be insane if it had stealth because 6 health makes it pretty much untouchable by AoE and the effect is overwhelming. Same goes to Mist wraith, who's only actual issue is that there is currently a lot of hard removal in the format. Seeping Oozeling was overcosted because the fact there is powerful deathrattles literally in the same set, such as Kathrena Winterwisp. Crushing Walls and Al'Akir the Windlord both do see some play so I dont understand why you'd want to just make them even better.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Altough i would like to see blizzard buffing some horrible cards i don't think this is going anywhere. I'm looking at cards like silver patriarc and similar cards. Yes scurgelord garosh is probably the worst DK of all classes and it could of been done better but i'm talking about the cards we will never see play. Maybe a lot of people don't have a problem with that and thats ok because everyone should have theyre own opinion but cards that don't see play and especially when they're class cards it's a waste of cardslot. Sometimes they were bad at release or sometimes they were bad because of a nerf that destroyed a card so bad that it's not played at all ...
will we ever see that? I'd hope but thats all we can do but i still doupt they will because it's to much work for them :/ sad but what can we do we're mearly customers;P
it would be glorious.
please give him a job... it's time for rogue stone ;)
Hired!
Random suggestions from random noob - zzz.
Please tell me this guy is trolling
bad ideias and even worse reasoning
Edited your thread title to remove the unnecessary start.
As for your suggestions, I'm surprised nobody has explained yet why bad cards exist. I guess because a lot of the cards you suggested buffing aren't even anywhere near the worst cards in the game, and then you proceeded to break most of them by either making them incredibly overtuned or actually worse somehow.
Anyway, have a read at these articles here and here. They're for Magic: The Gathering, but they pretty accurately explain why bad cards exist for all card games, just as bad weapons and armor exist in Adventure games or like, bad Pokémon exist.
Although again, you included cards like Silver Sword, Lord Jaraxxus and Valeera the Hollow, so maybe you also need a refresher on what a bad card is.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!