if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.
That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels.
Except it is the most broken card in the game only when played in Big Priest ,with the help of Resurrect and Eternal Servitude ,in other cases he never is extremely problematic like we see here .
Spell hunter would like a word.
Remember renounce lock? Yeah that was fun too wasn't it...
Barnes is extremely problematic. Just because he's at his worst in big priest doesn't mean he's not a problem in other decks.
I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?
Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .
Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent)
Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .
it's not because a deck is very popular that blizzard will nerf it.
big priest is a tier 1 deck of course but its neither the best or unbeatable.
as of right now i think the wild meta is super healthy with a lot of diversity (of course theres an obvious tier 1 (odd rogue, renolock, evenlock, big priest....)
we are far from a rock paper scissor in wild, and theres a lot of good otk in wild that big priest can do s*** about it
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
I don't know much about wild, but cards/decks do not only get nerfed if they're unbeatable. Shudderwock in standard was very beatable, but it was simply not fun to play against. Fun is very important in games, if you can't have fun, why play? (well apart from hearthstone streamers who surely mostly play for the money.)
Barnes need to be nerfed, all the other cards in the deck is ok.
5 manas Barnes can be enough.
Can I please know how a 2 mana summon 8 mana 8/8 or 9 mana 4/8 and a 4 mana prevent sheeps or Barnes and summon the minion you want which most likely is a 10 mana 10/10 that recruits an 8 mana 8/8 ,is OK ?
Without Odd/Even/Duplicate/no spells/no minions...etc restrictions .
Even Zerek's Cloning Gallery the 9 mana Legendary Spell can squeeze a maximum of 7/7 stats ,card text isn't all that matters you know .
Hello and welcome ,I was just willing to tackle the subject of nerfing Barnes (or Big Priest in general) .
For a lot of us ,Big Priest has become somewhat of a hated deck ,and looking at the reasons to why it is hated you find that it is :
a-tier 1 deck (something common between most hated decks in history)
b-filling both casual and ranked game modes (with endless woooows)
c-why people hate turn 3 or 4 against them (Barnes)
d-why I think the deck is problematic which is that every game ,they are able to spawn at least 4 boards that require a Twisting Nether each to be cleared (Blizzard, Flamestrike and Volcano for instance are not enough) ,that is if Kel'thuzad isn't included and they don't discover the Spellstone 2 times from Shadow Visions ,then you would be expecting 8 of these boards (god forbid)
Now to the point of why d is the main problem and not c (c is a problem although not the main one) ,I would like to mention all Big decks that I know about other than Big Priest :
Big Rogue (play it myself) ,Big Shaman (Standard with the overload giant and wild with reincarnate and Kel'thuzad) ,Big Warrior (Recruit) ,Big Druid (Quest or AvianaKun or Twig or DragonHatcher with lots of big dragons) .
We see lots of decks here that in the Wild format never reached tier 1 or 2 with some never reaching tier 4 ,despite having access to : Y'Shaarj, Ragnaros, Kel'thuzad, Lich King, Sylvanas, Barnes ,Ysera and Sneed's Old Shredder ,every class has those yet none of the 8 classes that are not priest were able to produce a tier 2 deck using them .
So It is either Obsidian Statue, Priest's Control tools (Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil and Psychic Scream..etc) or Priest's resurrect tools .
Regarding ObsidianS ,there were numerous times where I had the Priest dead if it weren't for this minion ,restoring at least 4 HP and killing a random enemy minion can be game changing ,but still managable so long as only 2 ObsidianSs are played during the game .
Moving to the control tools and realizing that Aggro is the best counter for this deck ,there really Isn't much to be said . Here, you (people who want Barnes nerfed) are right ,since Barnes gives this deck a push against what is considered it's counter ,trading that 1/1 copy that Barnes summoned (Obsidian maybe) into one of the aggro minions and then summoning 1 or 2 ObsidianS ends the game against most Aggro decks ,and this is why if what I wanted doesn't happen I would be content if they nerf Barnes .
Yet what I want is based on the fact that those 1 or 2 ObsidianS shouldn't be summoned as 4/8 (stats are my point so don't ignore that they are 4/8 or 10/10 or 8/8) as early as turn 4 ,it wouldn't happen without Barnes but it wouldn't happen without Resurrect or Eternal Servitude either .
Take Shadow Essence for example ,which is in my opinion the best card in the deck balance-wise . A 5/5 copy of a minion for 6 mana (which means you don't get that before turn 5) with a little deck restriction you get a powerful effect that Isn't game-breaking and that the opponent can deal with on their turn6 using a similarly costed card .
2 mana summon 10/10 and recruit 4/8 that lifesteals and kills a random minion is way too much . Barnes is a Legendary minion and the 1/1 copy he summons can be dealt with with a hero power ,and in the cases where that 1/1 copy is Y'Shaarj ,either it's : a- a lucky highroll and b- a result of deck restriction like Spell Hunter ,and then it still shouldn't be a heavy problem if you couldn't revive that 1/1 copy once or twice as a 10/10 (not 3/3 or 5/5) using two cards that cost 2 or 4 mana (Resurrect and Eternal Servitude) .
The point is ,nerfing Barnes is definitely a welcome solution although not the best one in my opinion ,as it will turn the deck into a new Quest Rogue (weak against Aggro ,stomps Control most of the time) whereas if resurrect effects were nerfed it would lose what makes it oppressive (hard to clear big boards and early high stats minions) yet still do fine against both Aggro and Control without being killed like Druid .
TL;DR : Nerf Priorities :
1-Resurrect and Eternal Servitude (to resurrecting 4/4 and 6/6 copies maybe of dead minions,stats debatable but definitely not 2 mana 10/10s) .
2-Barnes only ,say welcome to new Quest Rogue .
3-Spellstone (same number of minions but either less stats or make it harder to upgrade).
4-any other card from the deck or two of the previously mentioned options which doesn't solve the problem or overkills the deck respectively .
Resurrect cards should bring back minions with the same stats they died with. It would mostly fix cube decks and resurrect/big priest.
Now that is a proper fix and well accepted ,probably the best I've seen but would piss off the players because there is no dust refund .
Keeps Deathrattle value while making sure things don't go out of hand ,and a nerf to Big Rogue as well (not that it needed a nerf but to prevent insane board resurrects with Kel'thuzad ) ,I like this a lot plus I hate Carnivorous Cube.
I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?
Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .
Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent)
Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .
Shudderwock wasn't a top tier deck either yet still got gutted because it wasn't fun to play against at all. So your argument that spell hunter and renouncelock aren't an issue with Barnes is moot.
Besides, how is big priest not restricting itself then? It only runs about 5 minions of which 4 are extremely high costed and the deck relies solely on drawing 3 cards.
I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?
Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .
Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent)
Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .
Shudderwock wasn't a top tier deck either yet still got gutted because it wasn't fun to play against at all. So your argument that spell hunter and renouncelock aren't an issue with Barnes is moot.
Besides, how is big priest not restricting itself then? It only runs about 5 minions of which 4 are extremely high costed and the deck relies solely on drawing 3 cards.
Can't see how my argument for Spell Hunter and Renounce Warlock is related to Shudderwock ,we are talking about Barnes ,and I didn't say they aren't an issue ,I said that if highrolling with Barnes became consistent using the 3 mana epic spell then I'm all in for a nerf ,and then declared not knowing about Renounce Warlock and assumed if anything needed a nerf it is the Spell Hunter not it .
When you play against Barnes with these decks you can use many things to get rid of the 10/10 Y'Shaarj. Sap, Hex, Polymorph, Pyro+Equality or Equality trade with a minion, Shadow Word: Death, Shield Slam or Execute, Hunter's Mark + Candle Shot ....etc ,all those can just end the threat and you are ready to carry on with the game .
Now you are playing against a T3 or 4 Barnes in a Big Priest he gets a 1/1 Y'Shaarj that recruits an 8/8 Rag ,you use all the previous methods on the Rag (or whatever is recruited) and you think you got it safe (especially with sap hex and polymorph) only for the Priest to trade that 1/1 copy and get two full 10/10s that recruit 8/8s next turn for 4 mana, no other class can abuse Barnes this way because no other class has Resurrect or Eternal Servitude ,and this is my argument for why Barnes is not problematic (killing whatever is a result of him is getting rid of a problem except in Priest and in early turns) and not if Shudderwock is a top tier deck (!??)
I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?
Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .
Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent)
Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .
Shudderwock wasn't a top tier deck either yet still got gutted because it wasn't fun to play against at all. So your argument that spell hunter and renouncelock aren't an issue with Barnes is moot.
Besides, how is big priest not restricting itself then? It only runs about 5 minions of which 4 are extremely high costed and the deck relies solely on drawing 3 cards.
Can't see how my argument for Spell Hunter and Renounce Warlock is related to Shudderwock ,we are talking about Barnes ,and I didn't say they aren't an issue ,I said that if highrolling with Barnes became consistent using the 3 mana epic spell then I'm all in for a nerf ,and then declared not knowing about Renounce Warlock and assumed if anything needed a nerf it is the Spell Hunter not it .
When you play against Barnes with these decks you can use many things to get rid of the 10/10 Y'Shaarj. Sap, Hex, Polymorph, Pyro+Equality or Equality trade with a minion, Shadow Word: Death, Shield Slam or Execute, Hunter's Mark + Candle Shot ....etc ,all those can just end the threat and you are ready to carry on with the game .
Now you are playing against a T3 or 4 Barnes in a Big Priest he gets a 1/1 Y'Shaarj that recruits an 8/8 Rag ,you use all the previous methods on the Rag (or whatever is recruited) and you think you got it safe (especially with sap hex and polymorph) only for the Priest to trade that 1/1 copy and get two full 10/10s that recruit 8/8s next turn for 4 mana, no other class can abuse Barnes this way because no other class has Resurrect or Eternal Servitude ,and this is my argument for why Barnes is not problematic (killing whatever is a result of him is getting rid of a problem except in Priest and in early turns) and not if Shudderwock is a top tier deck (!??)
I used Shudderwock as an example as to how mediocre decks still get the nerf bat if they prove unfun to play against.
Barnes is exactly that. Because what if a deck doesn't draw, or better yet, have removal on turn 3-4 when Barnes gets dropped? They lose, right there, on the spot.
That is massive early game draw RNG, much like Keleseth which you mentioned in one of your earlier posts.
Barnes speeds up big priest's plan by two turns and gives other decks an extremely easy win condition they should not ever have.
Barnes is broken and should be severely nerfed or removed entirely at this point.
Whether I win or lose against Big Priest, I make sure to add the person and either:
a) Write the most vile shit possible and just delete them because they're usually argumentative degenerates so denying them the ability to reply is beautiful
b) Flame them for 20 minutes because they're also usually very easy to trigger and can barely speak English lul
I'm fine with everything in Wild at the moment, but shit like Big Priest, NSW Warlock and SA Druid should not exist in my opinion. Thankfully Kingsbane got nuked so there's only the Aggro variation which I'm fine with and also play ocassionally.
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I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?
Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .
Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent)
Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .
you've got a really good point
Can I please know how a 2 mana summon 8 mana 8/8 or 9 mana 4/8 and a 4 mana prevent sheeps or Barnes and summon the minion you want which most likely is a 10 mana 10/10 that recruits an 8 mana 8/8 ,is OK ?
Without Odd/Even/Duplicate/no spells/no minions...etc restrictions .
Even Zerek's Cloning Gallery the 9 mana Legendary Spell can squeeze a maximum of 7/7 stats ,card text isn't all that matters you know .
Now that is a proper fix and well accepted ,probably the best I've seen but would piss off the players because there is no dust refund .
Keeps Deathrattle value while making sure things don't go out of hand ,and a nerf to Big Rogue as well (not that it needed a nerf but to prevent insane board resurrects with Kel'thuzad ) ,I like this a lot plus I hate Carnivorous Cube.
Shudderwock wasn't a top tier deck either yet still got gutted because it wasn't fun to play against at all. So your argument that spell hunter and renouncelock aren't an issue with Barnes is moot.
Besides, how is big priest not restricting itself then? It only runs about 5 minions of which 4 are extremely high costed and the deck relies solely on drawing 3 cards.
Can't see how my argument for Spell Hunter and Renounce Warlock is related to Shudderwock ,we are talking about Barnes ,and I didn't say they aren't an issue ,I said that if highrolling with Barnes became consistent using the 3 mana epic spell then I'm all in for a nerf ,and then declared not knowing about Renounce Warlock and assumed if anything needed a nerf it is the Spell Hunter not it .
When you play against Barnes with these decks you can use many things to get rid of the 10/10 Y'Shaarj. Sap, Hex, Polymorph, Pyro+Equality or Equality trade with a minion, Shadow Word: Death, Shield Slam or Execute, Hunter's Mark + Candle Shot ....etc ,all those can just end the threat and you are ready to carry on with the game .
Now you are playing against a T3 or 4 Barnes in a Big Priest he gets a 1/1 Y'Shaarj that recruits an 8/8 Rag ,you use all the previous methods on the Rag (or whatever is recruited) and you think you got it safe (especially with sap hex and polymorph) only for the Priest to trade that 1/1 copy and get two full 10/10s that recruit 8/8s next turn for 4 mana, no other class can abuse Barnes this way because no other class has Resurrect or Eternal Servitude ,and this is my argument for why Barnes is not problematic (killing whatever is a result of him is getting rid of a problem except in Priest and in early turns) and not if Shudderwock is a top tier deck (!??)
I used Shudderwock as an example as to how mediocre decks still get the nerf bat if they prove unfun to play against.
Barnes is exactly that. Because what if a deck doesn't draw, or better yet, have removal on turn 3-4 when Barnes gets dropped? They lose, right there, on the spot.
That is massive early game draw RNG, much like Keleseth which you mentioned in one of your earlier posts.
Barnes speeds up big priest's plan by two turns and gives other decks an extremely easy win condition they should not ever have.
Barnes is broken and should be severely nerfed or removed entirely at this point.
Whether I win or lose against Big Priest, I make sure to add the person and either:
a) Write the most vile shit possible and just delete them because they're usually argumentative degenerates so denying them the ability to reply is beautiful
b) Flame them for 20 minutes because they're also usually very easy to trigger and can barely speak English lul
I'm fine with everything in Wild at the moment, but shit like Big Priest, NSW Warlock and SA Druid should not exist in my opinion. Thankfully Kingsbane got nuked so there's only the Aggro variation which I'm fine with and also play ocassionally.