Pointless thread, Hunter used to be 50% of the meta with Undertaker, nerfed to obscurity. Priest reigned with Machine Gun Anduin, nerfed to obscurity. Classes come and go, it's the Blizzard way, and sorry Druids but your turn is over.
Aside: Why drag Warrior into this nonsense with FWA? They have Tier 1 builds.
I agree with your post. Warrior has the wost win rate in wild, and in stadard they are only a thing because of the OP card Baku. The control options can't keep up with the aggro there are today. And the biggest problem with nerfing Wild Growth is, as you said, they made all cards around it. If you look at a Druid deck today, you build it without 2 mana cards. Becauce there are no good 2 mana cards, that a control or combo Druid would ever consider (besides maybe Wrath. I don't know if they just want all classes to be tempo classes or what? Control Mage is also dead as soon as the DK rotates.
Literally all I hear from this is "Waaaaah they nerfed my easy win extremely overpowered class that has been overpowered in literally every meta ever! Waaaah! Blizzard is big boogyman :'("
You should probably see a doctor about that. Weirdest case of tinnitus i've ever heard of.
Pointless thread, Hunter used to be 50% of the meta with Undertaker, nerfed to obscurity. Priest reigned with Machine Gun Anduin, nerfed to obscurity. Classes come and go, it's the Blizzard way, and sorry Druids but your turn is over.
Aside: Why drag Warrior into this nonsense with FWA? They have Tier 1 builds.
This thread is about how nerfing a single basic/classic card can permanently destroy a class's ability to play certain archtypes. It's not about a class's power coming and going as metas change.
We've seen what the developers think a classic/basic set should look like with Icicle, Pilfer, etc. They are not supposed to be cards that dominate a class and competitive play for all time. I think we'd all be better off if we started thinking of basic/classic as HS's first set, and not something that will be forever woven into the game.
Pre-nerf druid had godmode and TODAY its just a normal class.
God mode? Druid hasn't had a tier 1 deck since jade druid rotated out. You're tripping. Today it's a normal class? How is sitting 5% lower than the second lowest class in global rankings "normal"? The previous last place holder, priest, was 5% higher globally than druid now sits. There is nothing normal about that. These nerfs addressed an issue that didn't exist, and destroyed the class's identity and viability.
Pointless thread, Hunter used to be 50% of the meta with Undertaker, nerfed to obscurity. Priest reigned with Machine Gun Anduin, nerfed to obscurity. Classes come and go, it's the Blizzard way, and sorry Druids but your turn is over.
Aside: Why drag Warrior into this nonsense with FWA? They have Tier 1 builds.
This thread is about how nerfing a single basic/classic card can permanently destroy a class's ability to play certain archtypes. It's not about a class's power coming and going as metas change.
Permanently destroy? They announced no more expansions? Must have missed that.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Pointless thread, Hunter used to be 50% of the meta with Undertaker, nerfed to obscurity. Priest reigned with Machine Gun Anduin, nerfed to obscurity. Classes come and go, it's the Blizzard way, and sorry Druids but your turn is over.
Aside: Why drag Warrior into this nonsense with FWA? They have Tier 1 builds.
This thread is about how nerfing a single basic/classic card can permanently destroy a class's ability to play certain archtypes. It's not about a class's power coming and going as metas change.
Permanently destroy? They announced no more expansions? Must have missed that.
I was being brief and inaccurate, permanently leave a large void to fill to support such archetypes is more like it. And because they don't seem to understand the level of support necessary to support those archtypes, they're rarely if ever viable (see standard aggro/tempo warrior since War Axe nerf).
It's going to take a lot more than 1 expansion to fix the mess druid is in. They are losing basically their entire core set between the nerfs and rotation.
Other classes lose a lot too... power level should go way down in April...
Druid has not for a single meta in the entirety of Hearthstones life (with the exception of right now) not had either a high tier 2 or a tier 1 deck. At the end of Boomsday, 4 out of 5 total tier 1 decks were Druid decks. I personally believe the nerf to ramp, including Wild Growth was good for the longevity of the game. This is mostly because Druid decks, in general, have been rather monotone over its Hearthstone lifetime, because of this extremely strong core.
I had said it before the nerfs, and i will say it again here. Most of the Druid cards were NOT overpowered, had it not been for Druid's ramp. Including Ultimate InfestationBranching Paths and even Spreading Plague. These cards wouldn't have been anywhere near as strong in any other class, than specifically druid, because of their ramp capabilities.
The nerfs makes it possible for Druid to receive actual top tier cards, that makes it possible for a new array of druid decks to emerge. If that means that we will have to wait a few expansions for Druid to be Tier 1 or 2 again, then it will be perfectly fine, considering how long it have been in the spotlight as arguably the most consistently overpowered class, alongside Paladin.
I agree that not nerfing either Emerald Spellstone or Deathstalker Rexxar was a mistake on Blizzard's behalf. Both bring too much and too polarised power for the decks they're included in. Hunter as of current moment is too powerful, compared to the remaining classes, although it's not as oppresive nor polarizing as most previous top tier decks, which personally makes it less of a nuisance compared to these previous top tier decks.
Having Basic/Classic cards that are more or less forced into your deck creates monotone types of gameplay, and subdues a lot of cards. No other early game Warrior weapon could really be viable, as long as Waraxe existed. And for the same reason, Combo/Control Druid was always strong, because they had the ability to ignore certain parts of the game. This is fine for a period of a few years, but unhealthy for the entirety of the game.
I personally believe the nerf to ramp, including Wild Growth was good for the longevity of the game.
No early game Warrior weapon could really be viable, as long as Waraxe existed.
I agree with both of these statements. But the timing of the Wild Growth nerf? And where are our Warrior weapons since that support aggro/tempo archetypes? Do you really have faith that they can fill the void of Wild Growth to create a healthy class with varied viable archetypes?
I think we all recognize the problems, the issue is removing them without having solutions.
Nerfs were right, just the overnerfs aren't. For example Fiery War Axe. Wrong: increase the mana cost by 50%. Right: Can't attack the opponents Hero. But since it's a base card, blizzard don't like to make things more complicated. Understandable; still what we need are adjustments to the classic-set and add card to the evergreen-set too. One could be a weapon that is pre-nerfed Fiery War Axe without the ability to go face. Just do it!
I personally believe the nerf to ramp, including Wild Growth was good for the longevity of the game.
No early game Warrior weapon could really be viable, as long as Waraxe existed.
I agree with both of these statements. But the timing of the Wild Growth nerf? And where are our Warrior weapons since that support aggro/tempo archetypes? Do you really have faith that they can fill the void of Wild Growth to create a healthy class with varied viable archetypes?
I think we all recognize the problems, the issue is removing them without having solutions.
I believe the timing for the Wild Growth nerf were Horrific, but still needed. I'm obviously no fortuneteller, but of what I've seen lately, i feel like Team 5 have begun to listen more to the community, than what they have previously. Never before have we seen nerfs this soon, and the nerfs that came were good. Had they hit Rexxar aswell, i would even have considered them wonderful. I agree that of all the times to nerf Wild Growth, this is the silliest point. As Druid, unlike in Boomsday, didn't have several Tier 1 decks.
Sometimes solutions shouldn't come in the form of direct replacements for previous nerfs, as that would just slightly lower the power level of a certain deck, without creating new decks. Warriors don't need to have a cheap weapon, that can/should be played in every single warrior deck you can think of. Personally, I'd like to see more focused early game Warrior weapons like Bladed Gauntlet, over universally strong early game Weapons.
I don't see a sensible way to fix Druid at current moment, although i do hope they'll introduce new and powerful alternative power cards for Druid in the next Hearthstone year, that changes the way we play Druid.
I do agree the timing wasn't optimal, but I'd still like to stress that i believe the changes were great. I'd way rather have the nerfs than not have the nerfs.
The new team in place have taken a really broad view on class balance. They found wild growth to be in 95% of Druid meta decks, generally tier 1 and 2. They made a tough call, but I think we’re looking at solid balance after the last slew of Brode Era power creeped cards are rotated.
The new team in place have taken a really broad view on class balance. They found wild growth to be in 95% of Druid meta decks, generally tier 1 and 2. They made a tough call, but I think we’re looking at solid balance after the last slew of Brode Era power creeped cards are rotated.
Too bad it is still over a year for Baku and Genn to rotate..
The new team in place have taken a really broad view on class balance. They found wild growth to be in 95% of Druid meta decks, generally tier 1 and 2. They made a tough call, but I think we’re looking at solid balance after the last slew of Brode Era power creeped cards are rotated.
Hmm on that basis you could take out a lot of other cards. Animal companion, Eaglehorn bow and Kill command. Staples in every single hunter deck since launch and in multiple tier 1 decks for most expansions.
Deathrattle hunter runs non of them... and many people think that Animal Companion is OP and propose to reduce that stats of Leokk, Huffer and Misha...
Huffer could use a tiny nerf to combat the big burst damage. KC might need a small nerf, I could see that happening. Eaglehorn has plenty of tech options against it, but if team 5 thinks fiery war axe needed the nerf maybe they should look at this card.
Not all 3 at once, don’t want hunter instantly decimated. I think the nourish nerf on top of the rampant growth was too much at once.
Hunter is a deck developed for those individuals who can't play decks where thinking and developing are pertinent in order to win. In my opinion hunter decks are play this card, play that card and get four minions on the board for nothing. It's a deck for idiots. Oh yeah, then on my turn ten top deck how about playing Zul jin and bring back all my spells I've casted.
I can't stand that crap. It's for idiots to feel good about themselves and spend their money. Otherwise they're rank 25.
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I don't give a shit whether or not they were class features. They were BROKEN. Period.
/thread
Pointless thread, Hunter used to be 50% of the meta with Undertaker, nerfed to obscurity. Priest reigned with Machine Gun Anduin, nerfed to obscurity. Classes come and go, it's the Blizzard way, and sorry Druids but your turn is over.
Aside: Why drag Warrior into this nonsense with FWA? They have Tier 1 builds.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I agree with your post. Warrior has the wost win rate in wild, and in stadard they are only a thing because of the OP card Baku. The control options can't keep up with the aggro there are today. And the biggest problem with nerfing Wild Growth is, as you said, they made all cards around it. If you look at a Druid deck today, you build it without 2 mana cards. Becauce there are no good 2 mana cards, that a control or combo Druid would ever consider (besides maybe Wrath. I don't know if they just want all classes to be tempo classes or what? Control Mage is also dead as soon as the DK rotates.
You should probably see a doctor about that. Weirdest case of tinnitus i've ever heard of.
This thread is about how nerfing a single basic/classic card can permanently destroy a class's ability to play certain archtypes. It's not about a class's power coming and going as metas change.
Animal Companion is the same then for hunter...
God mode? Druid hasn't had a tier 1 deck since jade druid rotated out. You're tripping. Today it's a normal class? How is sitting 5% lower than the second lowest class in global rankings "normal"? The previous last place holder, priest, was 5% higher globally than druid now sits. There is nothing normal about that. These nerfs addressed an issue that didn't exist, and destroyed the class's identity and viability.
Permanently destroy? They announced no more expansions? Must have missed that.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I was being brief and inaccurate, permanently leave a large void to fill to support such archetypes is more like it. And because they don't seem to understand the level of support necessary to support those archtypes, they're rarely if ever viable (see standard aggro/tempo warrior since War Axe nerf).
Other classes lose a lot too... power level should go way down in April...
I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist. ©Trimutius
And thats mainly why the nerf was long overdue.
Druid has not for a single meta in the entirety of Hearthstones life (with the exception of right now) not had either a high tier 2 or a tier 1 deck. At the end of Boomsday, 4 out of 5 total tier 1 decks were Druid decks. I personally believe the nerf to ramp, including Wild Growth was good for the longevity of the game. This is mostly because Druid decks, in general, have been rather monotone over its Hearthstone lifetime, because of this extremely strong core.
I had said it before the nerfs, and i will say it again here. Most of the Druid cards were NOT overpowered, had it not been for Druid's ramp. Including Ultimate Infestation Branching Paths and even Spreading Plague. These cards wouldn't have been anywhere near as strong in any other class, than specifically druid, because of their ramp capabilities.
The nerfs makes it possible for Druid to receive actual top tier cards, that makes it possible for a new array of druid decks to emerge. If that means that we will have to wait a few expansions for Druid to be Tier 1 or 2 again, then it will be perfectly fine, considering how long it have been in the spotlight as arguably the most consistently overpowered class, alongside Paladin.
I agree that not nerfing either Emerald Spellstone or Deathstalker Rexxar was a mistake on Blizzard's behalf. Both bring too much and too polarised power for the decks they're included in. Hunter as of current moment is too powerful, compared to the remaining classes, although it's not as oppresive nor polarizing as most previous top tier decks, which personally makes it less of a nuisance compared to these previous top tier decks.
Having Basic/Classic cards that are more or less forced into your deck creates monotone types of gameplay, and subdues a lot of cards. No other early game Warrior weapon could really be viable, as long as Waraxe existed. And for the same reason, Combo/Control Druid was always strong, because they had the ability to ignore certain parts of the game. This is fine for a period of a few years, but unhealthy for the entirety of the game.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I agree with both of these statements. But the timing of the Wild Growth nerf? And where are our Warrior weapons since that support aggro/tempo archetypes? Do you really have faith that they can fill the void of Wild Growth to create a healthy class with varied viable archetypes?
I think we all recognize the problems, the issue is removing them without having solutions.
Nerfs were right, just the overnerfs aren't. For example Fiery War Axe. Wrong: increase the mana cost by 50%. Right: Can't attack the opponents Hero.
But since it's a base card, blizzard don't like to make things more complicated. Understandable; still what we need are adjustments to the classic-set and add card to the evergreen-set too. One could be a weapon that is pre-nerfed Fiery War Axe without the ability to go face. Just do it!
I believe the timing for the Wild Growth nerf were Horrific, but still needed. I'm obviously no fortuneteller, but of what I've seen lately, i feel like Team 5 have begun to listen more to the community, than what they have previously. Never before have we seen nerfs this soon, and the nerfs that came were good. Had they hit Rexxar aswell, i would even have considered them wonderful. I agree that of all the times to nerf Wild Growth, this is the silliest point. As Druid, unlike in Boomsday, didn't have several Tier 1 decks.
Sometimes solutions shouldn't come in the form of direct replacements for previous nerfs, as that would just slightly lower the power level of a certain deck, without creating new decks. Warriors don't need to have a cheap weapon, that can/should be played in every single warrior deck you can think of. Personally, I'd like to see more focused early game Warrior weapons like Bladed Gauntlet, over universally strong early game Weapons.
I don't see a sensible way to fix Druid at current moment, although i do hope they'll introduce new and powerful alternative power cards for Druid in the next Hearthstone year, that changes the way we play Druid.
I do agree the timing wasn't optimal, but I'd still like to stress that i believe the changes were great. I'd way rather have the nerfs than not have the nerfs.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
The new team in place have taken a really broad view on class balance. They found wild growth to be in 95% of Druid meta decks, generally tier 1 and 2. They made a tough call, but I think we’re looking at solid balance after the last slew of Brode Era power creeped cards are rotated.
Too bad it is still over a year for Baku and Genn to rotate..
I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist. ©Trimutius
Deathrattle hunter runs non of them... and many people think that Animal Companion is OP and propose to reduce that stats of Leokk, Huffer and Misha...
I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist. ©Trimutius
Huffer could use a tiny nerf to combat the big burst damage. KC might need a small nerf, I could see that happening. Eaglehorn has plenty of tech options against it, but if team 5 thinks fiery war axe needed the nerf maybe they should look at this card.
Not all 3 at once, don’t want hunter instantly decimated. I think the nourish nerf on top of the rampant growth was too much at once.
Hunter is a deck developed for those individuals who can't play decks where thinking and developing are pertinent in order to win. In my opinion hunter decks are play this card, play that card and get four minions on the board for nothing. It's a deck for idiots. Oh yeah, then on my turn ten top deck how about playing Zul jin and bring back all my spells I've casted.
I can't stand that crap. It's for idiots to feel good about themselves and spend their money. Otherwise they're rank 25.