As a wild player I can say that wild is problematic just because of few broken cards. These cards are the ones that let you cheat mana or value, fixing those will make the wild really enjoyable. We have seen how a single nerf to leeching poison get the Kingsbane rogue in line. I can list the ones that first come into my mind: Barnes, Baku and Genn. Almost all tier 1 decks in wild are made around those. You can see there is a problem in the game when all tier 1 decks are made out of of 3 cards only. Will Blizzard try to fix wild? Probably not. They afraid too much giving players the dust refund I guess. as if the players didn't spend the dust to craft those cards in the first place.
Then there are other powerful cards (Coldlight, Cube, Rexxar, Gul'Dan, deathrattle and otk shenanigans), but anything that does not let you cheat mana or value before turn 6-7 is fine for me now.
Imo i dont like gen and baku....yes you have some downside but you have like op power from first turn.... But i like reno mechanic...you dont have any upside until you play that card.... As wild player i dont have any problem with any deck right now. Playing renolock and im happy with meta right now.
Lol doesn't mention reno. Honestly all matchups seem fair and fairly balanced except big priest. It reminds me if the huge value from pre nerf kingsbane with the difference that it can beat aggro unlike kingsbane and yet they killed it but let b7g priest go free.
Ive been playing wild and the deck i would nerf first would be big priest. Kingsbane was keeping it under control now its crazy. I would say putting barnes at 6 mana would suffice but maybe let it be but instead nerf obsidian statue. Its actually the reason the deck can be run cause vs aggro they need a comeback in terms of health and this one provides it with removal at the same time. Doesn't seem balanced. Also its a slot machine deck. Ive played it. Its boring always the same matches no decisions to be made. Ez wins and rolling barnes on turn 4 or 3 coin gives u 80% wr.
I think you did not read the post well. I did not complain about the cards because they create tier 1 decks. I complain about them because they provide insane value in the early game that you simply cannot play your deck against. When your opponent plays turn 4 barnes you are basically done, you cannot even play with your deck and enjoy the game. For baku and genn it is similiar. It is basically cheating against someone doesnt play those cards. 1 mana life tap, 1 mana totem that reduces the cost of your cards, having 2 mana summon 2 1/1's every turn, 2 mana 2/2 weapon that is available all the time etc. I'm fine with having tier 1 decks that lets you play your cards, I'm fine with control, combo, aggro. It's not the archetype or being tier 1 it is about not being able to play the game. If you don't play wild, don't enjoy it and just a standard player why do you bother replying this thread? I play standard also, and we all know that the nerfs made lots of decks playable. I just want the same for wild as well. And this is not a 'I lost against those decks and I want them nerfed' thread. I also have baku and genn and tried those decks, they all have a powerlevel that other decks cannot even come close.
Sorry, but i see the issue is far more difficult. First: the worst offender in wild even shaman is not mudspark eel, not Totem Golem, heck not even the fricking 4 mana 7/7, no, the worst offender is a card that we had since vanilla and was also an issue in the time before again and again and again. It's Flametongue Totem. This card makes the totems that you summon into deadly weapons, able to destroy everything in their way. Flametongue is the real problem of Even Shaman.
Odd-Rogue has another issue that was never fixed and existed since vanilla, but did become insane after MSG: Southsea Captain. The +1/+1 was already an issue in Murloc Warleader and was fixed there. The most important nerf is to remove the health-gain, instead give pirates only 1 attack. But change it that it gains itself a +1 attack too, then it's mostly fair.
And Barnes: Nerf it, simply and fixed. Barnes is an offender, and Big Priest without barnes is still strong, but no longer unfair. Barnes is the most important offender; if big priest then is still too strong, then we can see, but for now: nerf barnes to cost 6 mana, FIXED!
I love playing wild but the only thing ( since Kingsbane Rogue nerf ) that spoils the fun is Big Priest. Whenever I lose to a turn 4 Barnes I always think to my self ,,How does Blizzard think this is ok???,, It's so stupid that Big Priest gets such an insane winrate boost just from randomly drawing a 1 of legendary card in the early game. It's similar to Prince Keleseth which I also despise. To make matters worse...Big Priest is a tier 1 deck now, and is super easy to play so you get the joy of playing against it pretty often.
You can tell the deck is uninteractive nonsense when the only decks that beat it are 1) Aggro ( let's just beat it before it can do anything ) 2) Combo decks ( lets just OTK it before anything it does matters ) and formerly 3) Kingsbane Mill Rogue ( Lets just keep Saping and Vanishing their threats until a 12 attack lifesteal weapon runs them out )
As you can see the only way to consistently beat Big Priest is to make their gameplan NOT MATTER which is the definition of uninteractive. That is the main reason Aggro is so popular right now, because it's the only thing that can consistently beat Big Priest after Combo Druid and Kingsbane Rogue got nerfed.
So if you ask me...The only thing Blizzard needs to do to fix the wild meta is nuke Big Priest from orbit. But that's not really realistic since Blizzard knows there are some people that enjoy playing Big Priest ( I honestly don't understand how such an auto pilot deck can be fun to play but whatever... ) . So a more realistic hope is a nerf that takes it to tier 3 or something so it's still playable for those people but pretty much not a part of the regular meta.
That would make more control decks viable and that would keep Baku the Mooneater / Genn Greymane decks in check. I can only hope Blizzard realizes this as soon as possible.
Lol doesn't mention reno. Honestly all matchups seem fair and fairly balanced except big priest. It reminds me if the huge value from pre nerf kingsbane with the difference that it can beat aggro unlike kingsbane and yet they killed it but let b7g priest go free.
Ive been playing wild and the deck i would nerf first would be big priest. Kingsbane was keeping it under control now its crazy. I would say putting barnes at 6 mana would suffice but maybe let it be but instead nerf obsidian statue. Its actually the reason the deck can be run cause vs aggro they need a comeback in terms of health and this one provides it with removal at the same time. Doesn't seem balanced. Also its a slot machine deck. Ive played it. Its boring always the same matches no decisions to be made. Ez wins and rolling barnes on turn 4 or 3 coin gives u 80% wr.
Balanced
I aggre you on that. I stated those 3 cards but barnes was the biggest offender. Maybe nerfing big priest will make control decks playable and reduce the amount of odd and even tempo decks. As for the reno, the card itself isn't the offender imo. It is just warlocks have too many good cards however unlike big priest renolock is beatable so it is fine for me.
Sorry, but i see the issue is far more difficult. First: the worst offender in wild even shaman is not mudspark eel, not Totem Golem, heck not even the fricking 4 mana 7/7, no, the worst offender is a card that we had since vanilla and was also an issue in the time before again and again and again. It's Flametongue Totem. This card makes the totems that you summon into deadly weapons, able to destroy everything in their way. Flametongue is the real problem of Even Shaman.
Odd-Rogue has another issue that was never fixed and existed since vanilla, but did become insane after MSG: Southsea Captain. The +1/+1 was already an issue in Murloc Warleader and was fixed there. The most important nerf is to remove the health-gain, instead give pirates only 1 attack. But change it that it gains itself a +1 attack too, then it's mostly fair.
And Barnes: Nerf it, simply and fixed. Barnes is an offender, and Big Priest without barnes is still strong, but no longer unfair. Barnes is the most important offender; if big priest then is still too strong, then we can see, but for now: nerf barnes to cost 6 mana, FIXED!
I aggree that what I wrote was just a superficial statement of the problem but nerfing only a single card Barnes will probably make the state of the wild much more better.
You can tell who doesn't play Wild frequently in these kind of threads. The power level and variety is higher, but it's not like you can't win pretty consistently without playing the popular decks like big priest and kingsbane mill rogue. I've been able to have over ~50-55% WR over hundreds of games with dumb decks like Reno Hunter, Flark/bomb hunter, big rogue etc (Dane decks, basically).
As for balancing wild, I don't think it's them being lazy as much as it is just not a priority, they think we are happy with it as it is with just a few exceptions, which they have at least tried to deal with (sea witch, leeching poison nerfs etc). Could they do more? Maybe, but they shouldn't seriously consider completely obliterating entire deck archetypes by getting rid of cards like Reno. As much as everyone would like it to be, "I don't like playing against it" isn't a reason to nerf a card.
Wild is fine right now. Yes, Big Priest is annoying but counterable. Also Even Shaman is too popular.. Only card that i hate in this deck is evolve, because u can't fairly fight for a board with your units.
The dev team nerfed Aviana, so they clearly pay some attention to the Wild format. The Avianna/Kun combo was broken, so they fixed it.
Big Priest isn't broken - it's just a powerful build (at least when it plays Barnes on curve). But it gets crushed by popular decks like Odd Rogue. And it's not nearly as infuriating as Even Shaman, IMO.
TL;DR topics: maybe they have a plan to get more money. Maybe nerf sylvanas / rag as well as barnes. Wild is NOT meant to be broken IMO.
full post: (enjoy reading)
I think Blizzard waited with nerfing Barnes on purpose, to make extra money:
first they nerf the counter to big priest (kingsbane rogue) so that big priest gets stronger
then more players want to craft big priest so they need to craft lot’s of other expansive cards: ragnaros, sylvanas, obsidian statue, etc... so then blizzard gets extra money
but of coarse, as always, the players will complain. About big priest.
so then they nerf it but only refund 1600 dust.
you could argue against this theory with “yeah, but most players already have rag/sylvanas” and then i agree with you, but big part of the players who want to craft the deck still need other cards like ressurection cards or obsidian statue.
or you could say “yeah, but after barnes nerf, rag and sylvanas are still usefull” that is probably true but doesnt count for all the cards: probably obsidian statue will see lots less play for example.
this is just a theory i am exited to see what you think about this :-)
another thing i have thought about is also nerfing ragnaros and sylvanas, because they are high above average power level and imo they are bad gor the game. But yeah, they are kind of ‘iconic’ characters and cards...
changes HAVE to be made anyways. I am getting a little bit tired of these “yeah but wild is WILD” or “wild is just the dump for old cards” or “meant to be broken” comments because i don’t agree with them. I think wild can better be desciped as a ‘creative’ archetype with more options than standard, but thats just mine opinion.
TL;DR topics: maybe they have a plan to get more money. Maybe nerf sylvanas / rag as well as barnes. Wild is NOT meant to be broken IMO.
full post: (enjoy reading)
I think Blizzard waited with nerfing Barnes on purpose, to make extra money:
first they nerf the counter to big priest (kingsbane rogue) so that big priest gets stronger
then more players want to craft big priest so they need to craft lot’s of other expansive cards: ragnaros, sylvanas, obsidian statue, etc... so then blizzard gets extra money
but of coarse, as always, the players will complain. About big priest.
so then they nerf it but only refund 1600 dust.
you could argue against this theory with “yeah, but most players already have rag/sylvanas” and then i agree with you, but big part of the players who want to craft the deck still need other cards like ressurection cards or obsidian statue.
or you could say “yeah, but after barnes nerf, rag and sylvanas are still usefull” that is probably true but doesnt count for all the cards: probably obsidian statue will see lots less play for example.
this is just a theory i am exited to see what you think about this :-)
another thing i have thought about is also nerfing ragnaros and sylvanas, because they are high above average power level and imo they are bad gor the game. But yeah, they are kind of ‘iconic’ characters and cards...
changes HAVE to be made anyways. I am getting a little bit tired of these “yeah but wild is WILD” or “wild is just the dump for old cards” or “meant to be broken” comments because i don’t agree with them. I think wild can better be desciped as a ‘creative’ archetype with more options than standard, but thats just mine opinion.
I will print out your theory and use it to line the kitty box. Let the cats shit on BS.
I could not agree more on Genn and Baku and made a threat about it and why they need to fundamentally need to change. Genn and Baku is not a downside at all. Why else is every top tier deck in both standard and wild? The root of the problem is so much free value/aggression that the hero power creates. I hope Blizzard learns from this and see "start of game" is not a good mechanic and should not exist.
As a wild player I can say that wild is problematic just because of few broken cards. These cards are the ones that let you cheat mana or value, fixing those will make the wild really enjoyable. We have seen how a single nerf to leeching poison get the Kingsbane rogue in line. I can list the ones that first come into my mind: Barnes, Baku and Genn. Almost all tier 1 decks in wild are made around those. You can see there is a problem in the game when all tier 1 decks are made out of of 3 cards only. Will Blizzard try to fix wild? Probably not. They afraid too much giving players the dust refund I guess. as if the players didn't spend the dust to craft those cards in the first place.
Then there are other powerful cards (Coldlight, Cube, Rexxar, Gul'Dan, deathrattle and otk shenanigans), but anything that does not let you cheat mana or value before turn 6-7 is fine for me now.
Imo i dont like gen and baku....yes you have some downside but you have like op power from first turn.... But i like reno mechanic...you dont have any upside until you play that card.... As wild player i dont have any problem with any deck right now. Playing renolock and im happy with meta right now.
Hehe Reno slips?
Skidaddle skidoodle your Milhouse manastorm is now a noodle
cmon bro we all know wild is dumping ground for the broken cards,stay away from that format,there are decks there that can win on turn 3
Whining against top tier decks, just because they are top tier decks, is ridiculous, even moreso in Wild.
Nerf what is stupid broken or exceedingly dominant. Wild needs that.
And sure Odd/Even decks contain some of that, but the whole archetypes, just because they are top tier? Why not all the other top tier decks then?
Nerfing what is top tier for the sake of it, is sheer salt, other than pointless (other t1 will come, what then?).
If you want a self-refreshing meta, go Standard.
Lol doesn't mention reno. Honestly all matchups seem fair and fairly balanced except big priest. It reminds me if the huge value from pre nerf kingsbane with the difference that it can beat aggro unlike kingsbane and yet they killed it but let b7g priest go free.
Ive been playing wild and the deck i would nerf first would be big priest. Kingsbane was keeping it under control now its crazy. I would say putting barnes at 6 mana would suffice but maybe let it be but instead nerf obsidian statue. Its actually the reason the deck can be run cause vs aggro they need a comeback in terms of health and this one provides it with removal at the same time. Doesn't seem balanced. Also its a slot machine deck. Ive played it. Its boring always the same matches no decisions to be made. Ez wins and rolling barnes on turn 4 or 3 coin gives u 80% wr.
Balanced
I think you did not read the post well. I did not complain about the cards because they create tier 1 decks. I complain about them because they provide insane value in the early game that you simply cannot play your deck against. When your opponent plays turn 4 barnes you are basically done, you cannot even play with your deck and enjoy the game. For baku and genn it is similiar. It is basically cheating against someone doesnt play those cards. 1 mana life tap, 1 mana totem that reduces the cost of your cards, having 2 mana summon 2 1/1's every turn, 2 mana 2/2 weapon that is available all the time etc. I'm fine with having tier 1 decks that lets you play your cards, I'm fine with control, combo, aggro. It's not the archetype or being tier 1 it is about not being able to play the game. If you don't play wild, don't enjoy it and just a standard player why do you bother replying this thread? I play standard also, and we all know that the nerfs made lots of decks playable. I just want the same for wild as well. And this is not a 'I lost against those decks and I want them nerfed' thread. I also have baku and genn and tried those decks, they all have a powerlevel that other decks cannot even come close.
Sorry, but i see the issue is far more difficult. First: the worst offender in wild even shaman is not mudspark eel, not Totem Golem, heck not even the fricking 4 mana 7/7, no, the worst offender is a card that we had since vanilla and was also an issue in the time before again and again and again. It's Flametongue Totem. This card makes the totems that you summon into deadly weapons, able to destroy everything in their way. Flametongue is the real problem of Even Shaman.
Odd-Rogue has another issue that was never fixed and existed since vanilla, but did become insane after MSG: Southsea Captain. The +1/+1 was already an issue in Murloc Warleader and was fixed there. The most important nerf is to remove the health-gain, instead give pirates only 1 attack. But change it that it gains itself a +1 attack too, then it's mostly fair.
And Barnes: Nerf it, simply and fixed. Barnes is an offender, and Big Priest without barnes is still strong, but no longer unfair. Barnes is the most important offender; if big priest then is still too strong, then we can see, but for now: nerf barnes to cost 6 mana, FIXED!
I love playing wild but the only thing ( since Kingsbane Rogue nerf ) that spoils the fun is Big Priest. Whenever I lose to a turn 4 Barnes I always think to my self ,,How does Blizzard think this is ok???,, It's so stupid that Big Priest gets such an insane winrate boost just from randomly drawing a 1 of legendary card in the early game. It's similar to Prince Keleseth which I also despise. To make matters worse...Big Priest is a tier 1 deck now, and is super easy to play so you get the joy of playing against it pretty often.
You can tell the deck is uninteractive nonsense when the only decks that beat it are 1) Aggro ( let's just beat it before it can do anything ) 2) Combo decks ( lets just OTK it before anything it does matters ) and formerly 3) Kingsbane Mill Rogue ( Lets just keep Saping and Vanishing their threats until a 12 attack lifesteal weapon runs them out )
As you can see the only way to consistently beat Big Priest is to make their gameplan NOT MATTER which is the definition of uninteractive. That is the main reason Aggro is so popular right now, because it's the only thing that can consistently beat Big Priest after Combo Druid and Kingsbane Rogue got nerfed.
So if you ask me...The only thing Blizzard needs to do to fix the wild meta is nuke Big Priest from orbit. But that's not really realistic since Blizzard knows there are some people that enjoy playing Big Priest ( I honestly don't understand how such an auto pilot deck can be fun to play but whatever... ) . So a more realistic hope is a nerf that takes it to tier 3 or something so it's still playable for those people but pretty much not a part of the regular meta.
That would make more control decks viable and that would keep Baku the Mooneater / Genn Greymane decks in check. I can only hope Blizzard realizes this as soon as possible.
I aggre you on that. I stated those 3 cards but barnes was the biggest offender. Maybe nerfing big priest will make control decks playable and reduce the amount of odd and even tempo decks. As for the reno, the card itself isn't the offender imo. It is just warlocks have too many good cards however unlike big priest renolock is beatable so it is fine for me.
I aggree that what I wrote was just a superficial statement of the problem but nerfing only a single card Barnes will probably make the state of the wild much more better.
I agree with Barnes (but also on Shadow Essence). Big Priest is just a mistake of a deck.
I also agree on nerfing cards that abuse Odd/Even.
But Odd/Even are perfectly fine as archetypes.
Otherwise, also Reno decks should be destroyed, because obviously it's the best way to go for Control...
Reno deckS?? There is only one viable reno deck...
You can tell who doesn't play Wild frequently in these kind of threads. The power level and variety is higher, but it's not like you can't win pretty consistently without playing the popular decks like big priest and kingsbane mill rogue. I've been able to have over ~50-55% WR over hundreds of games with dumb decks like Reno Hunter, Flark/bomb hunter, big rogue etc (Dane decks, basically).
As for balancing wild, I don't think it's them being lazy as much as it is just not a priority, they think we are happy with it as it is with just a few exceptions, which they have at least tried to deal with (sea witch, leeching poison nerfs etc). Could they do more? Maybe, but they shouldn't seriously consider completely obliterating entire deck archetypes by getting rid of cards like Reno. As much as everyone would like it to be, "I don't like playing against it" isn't a reason to nerf a card.
Wild is fine right now.
Yes, Big Priest is annoying but counterable.
Also Even Shaman is too popular.. Only card that i hate in this deck is evolve, because u can't fairly fight for a board with your units.
The dev team nerfed Aviana, so they clearly pay some attention to the Wild format. The Avianna/Kun combo was broken, so they fixed it.
Big Priest isn't broken - it's just a powerful build (at least when it plays Barnes on curve). But it gets crushed by popular decks like Odd Rogue. And it's not nearly as infuriating as Even Shaman, IMO.
By your logic... why got Aviana nerfed? If that's what wild needs- Crazy, imbalanced cards? I can't stand such comments with no hindsight.
Always expect the unexpectable!
TL;DR topics: maybe they have a plan to get more money. Maybe nerf sylvanas / rag as well as barnes. Wild is NOT meant to be broken IMO.
full post: (enjoy reading)
I think Blizzard waited with nerfing Barnes on purpose, to make extra money:
first they nerf the counter to big priest (kingsbane rogue) so that big priest gets stronger
then more players want to craft big priest so they need to craft lot’s of other expansive cards: ragnaros, sylvanas, obsidian statue, etc... so then blizzard gets extra money
but of coarse, as always, the players will complain. About big priest.
so then they nerf it but only refund 1600 dust.
you could argue against this theory with “yeah, but most players already have rag/sylvanas” and then i agree with you, but big part of the players who want to craft the deck still need other cards like ressurection cards or obsidian statue.
or you could say “yeah, but after barnes nerf, rag and sylvanas are still usefull” that is probably true but doesnt count for all the cards: probably obsidian statue will see lots less play for example.
this is just a theory i am exited to see what you think about this :-)
another thing i have thought about is also nerfing ragnaros and sylvanas, because they are high above average power level and imo they are bad gor the game. But yeah, they are kind of ‘iconic’ characters and cards...
changes HAVE to be made anyways. I am getting a little bit tired of these “yeah but wild is WILD” or “wild is just the dump for old cards” or “meant to be broken” comments because i don’t agree with them. I think wild can better be desciped as a ‘creative’ archetype with more options than standard, but thats just mine opinion.
I will print out your theory and use it to line the kitty box. Let the cats shit on BS.
I could not agree more on Genn and Baku and made a threat about it and why they need to fundamentally need to change. Genn and Baku is not a downside at all. Why else is every top tier deck in both standard and wild?
The root of the problem is so much free value/aggression that the hero power creates. I hope Blizzard learns from this and see "start of game" is not a good mechanic and should not exist.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/wild-format/228191-the-worst-designed-cards-of-all-time