My issue is that they've screwed players out of the dust for crafting legendaries by nerfing common or rare cards in a way that severely effects the current archetypes that use them. Pretty underhanded. I'm glad I didn't craft it and actually opened it in a pack a long time ago, but imagine I could have crafted it yesterday and then found out I wasted 1600 dust today.
Thinking the same. Yesterday I was planning to make a post in the Legendary Tier List & Crafting Guide about the viability of Captain Greenskin. I was going to ask how safe his craft is taking into consideration how he's being used only in Kingsbane decks and how he is dependent on their state. I would have also asked whether crafting him would become a trap, if a nerf would occur to this archtype. Today I got my answer.
Captain Greenskin was playable in the past in Pirate Warrior and it is still playable Right now in Odd Rogue (both Wild and Standard) and future Pirate Rogue lists, I wouldn't write him off just yet.
Very happy about this. Saronite Chain Gang is still nuts as a 4/6 for 4 Mana with Taunt separatedin two bodies. At least its not possible to abuse handbuffs with this card anymore. And the Kingsbane Nerf, YÖSSSS! :D
Captain Greenskin was playable in the past in Pirate Warrior and it is still playable Right now in Odd Rogue (both Wild and Standard) and future Pirate Rogue lists, I wouldn't write him off just yet.
I strongly agree with you, but I have a small question - how essential is he in odd rogue decks? Isn't there a better (and a cheaper) replacement for him?
[edit] I can see some future aggro (odd) pirate decks, which will benefit from Raiding Party (and thus from him as well). But dunno, back in MSoG I was never afraid when seeing a PW playing Greenskin against me. I either had an Ooze for their weapon or I didn't. I remember thinking that he was slow in that deck.
Merry Xmas everyone guys! Joking aside I'm really glad we got a balance patch because even after the expansion release the meta felt awfully stale and these nerfs are certainly gonna shake things up.... I'm afraid Hunter might get even more popular but you can tech against that.... Now onto the nerfs...
Odd Paladin got murdered,without Level Up! unless they "highroll" Stonehill (which seems to happen every last game) they have no of buffing their Tokens till turn 7 and that makes them very vulnerable to mass removal,even AOE of those classes whose AOE is supposed to suck like Hunter and Rogue... I suppose we might see Even Pally rise again but without 4 mana CTA it shouldn't that difficult too keep them in check...
Not only Ramp but any kind of Druid Deck took a huge hit as well.... As much as I feel the class has too many overtuned cards I feel that Nourish nerf was kinda overkill because Wild Growth to 3 is so huge... I don't have stats to back the claim up but I'm pretty sure Druid's winrate is heavily affected by Wild Growth on turn 2... Nourish on the other hand was never a problem,even more so without turn 2 Wild Growth,before UI was released it was used as 5 mana draw 3 which is perfectly fine, and even when it was used for ramp it didn't matter that much because the Druid didn't have a way to replenish their hand....
Saronite nerf severely hurts Shudderwock (which I don't think needed to be nerfed but stupid card is stupid so I'm okay with it) but also hits all the Decks running Keleseth and buffs in general.... Personally I'm glad Zoo won't ever drop 2 4/5s on turn 4 again...
As a fierce Kingsbane hater Leeching Poison is probably my favourite nerf here... It doesn't kill the card but it makes it even more crappy against Aggro and gives Control Decks a chance to counter it because now they have to time their healing well,can't keep facetanking everything and Skulking Geist hurts them even more...
Unfortunately none of these changes helps solving Wild's problems,which are Big Priest and Kingsbane (I'd love so much too see the Spellstone and the Mill package nerfed into oblivion) ,but overall this is one of,if not the best, balance patch we've ever got...
Level Up! Yeah i am sure Odd Paladin will still be a thing without this card !
Leeching Poison Yeah we prefer to nerf this instead of problematic card design cards like Kingsbane (As if Envenom Weapon was broken in the first place) <Also we do not want to refund Kingsbane for new players that decided to try this deck for a few months>
Also let's nerf more Classic Cards to make Classic set soo bad that new expansions will become slowly the <Evergreen> must craft sets. Well actually Nourish deserved the nerf but ... Wild Growth really just took the Fiery War Axe bullet pretty much.
When will community complain about the actual OP cards or design cards? Leeching Poison was fine why was it even a target? Yeah because Kingsbane had to be redesigned.
Better have redesigns than nerfing support cards is my idea.Will never help in the long-term.
Saronite Chain Gang is still playable but just not in Hand -Buff decks realising that now except Warlock with the Doubling Imp and Hireek, the neutral Hand Buff minion does nothing extra for other classes.
Sums up what they did,at this rate Classic set will be a meme anyway. What was the point of Lifesteal per turn when Rogue 's best weapon was Kingsbane is beyond me anyway,Rogue needs High-Attack Weapons to synergise with these cards i can't see other weapon that does that at the moment.
So i guess it was just a Destroy deck not Nerf deck, typical Blizzard move.
I dont think the Wild Growth nerf was necessary when you nerf Nourish already. It does rise some questions that they nerf 2 classic cards, 4 years after release....
Other nerfs are fine by me. It's a shame that Leeching Poison was not a problem in itself but became one because of Kingsbane.
I'm happy Blizzard recognizes that some decks are just unfun to play against (Shudderwock, Kingsbane,...) and does something about it. They don't need to have an excessive power lvl to justify a 'nerf'.
Would have loved to see a nerf to Spell Hunter as well (Spellstone to 6 mana?), but I'll take these.
The nerf to Saronite Chain Gang is exactly that what's been asked for by many people (including myself) shortly after the ridiculous combo with Shudderwock gained traction. I like that they chose to nerf Saronite instead of Grumble, Worldshaker. Also, now Shudderwock can be played as how it was supposed to act => a huge, but one-time value generator instead of an infinite OTK piece (of shit). Yeah, in Wild you can still create multiple copies via Doppelgangster before bouncing them back but it's full of broken stuff anyway.
Wild Growth and Nourish... will be played even with the increased mana cost. It's just that those lightning fast openers such as T2 WG into T3 Coin + Nourish will be gone. I think these two have been nerfed mainly with Combo Druid in mind rather than pure Ramp.
In regards to Level Up!, a few days ago I realised again that Odd Paladin is quite an old deck. It doesn't use ANY card from RR + BDP and just a SINGLE card from WW which is Baku the Mooneater. That and the fact that the spell at 5 mana was, as someone else already said, almost a more broken iteration of Sunkeeper given how easy it is for the Paladin to flood the board with dudes.
Happy about the nerfs, but the timing feels weird. Lots of people crafted Shudderwock, Kingsbane etc which are expensive decks that are now unplayable in their current state. Getting back dust on the cheapest cards in those decks is a feelsbadman :/
Every single one of these nerfs feels well deserved and well executed because they target the exact problems of the cards/decks that they are used in.
- Wild Growth and Nourish are now a lot harder to use, which makes ramping more difficult, which also makes it harder for druids to throw away their hand and refill it with Ultimate Infestation.
- Level Up! now straight up can't be used in odd paladin, so now the scariest thing they can do is Fungalmancer on 5 or Sunkeeper Tarim on 6 (the latter was actually already the scariest thing but having Tarim on turn 6 is much less consistent and he is rotating out soon). This does make Quartermaster seem pretty unfair though.
- The Saronite Chain Gang nerf completely prevents standard Shudderwock decks from gaining multiple copies of Shudderwock, and it forces wild Shudderwock decks to use the less powerful Doppelgangster (or Echoing Ooze but that's incredibly slow and inconsistent). This is great because, especially in standard, shudderwock should be a powerful one-turn effect like N'Zoth, the Corruptor or C'Thun used to be: strong but not completely gamewinning, and requires buildup.
- Whenever I thought about what would be the best way to nerf Kingsbane decks, I would always conclude that changing Leeching Poison to be a one-turn effect would be the best way so I'm really glad to see this nerf. (btw, I bet no one expected Leeching Poison to be nerfed back when it was released in KFT lol)
I have to give props to Blizzard for this one, can't wait to see how these nerfs will shake up both the standard and wild meta (I just hope hunters won't become too dominant).
Edit: I forgot to mention that the saronite chaingang nerf also makes the card a lot less strong with buffs, which is a pretty big deal as well. I'm a little sad that this also hurts handbuff decks (rip Val'anyr synergy :'( ), but overall I think it's good for the game.
I also just realized I recently dusted my third Level up!... RIP 300 dust.
Sunkeeper Tarim is actually even, so it also cannot be used.
double nerf on ramping spells for druid, I am ok with the wild growth one but nourish seems a bit overkill, maybe they want to enable different deck building options for druid but have they released cards to support that?
pretty balanced nerf for kingsbane, skulking is even stronger, higher skillcap required to play it, maybe it will enable a faster version of the deck who knows..
saronite nerf is very good for zoo and any kind of hand-buff mechanic, completely obliterated Shudder decks but it was not a tier 1 deck and it had not that much time left since Grumble is kinda soon rotating out so I do not understand this choice.
overall I feel like this is a nice intro to Hunterstone.
Every single one of these nerfs feels well deserved and well executed because they target the exact problems of the cards/decks that they are used in.
- Wild Growth and Nourish are now a lot harder to use, which makes ramping more difficult, which also makes it harder for druids to throw away their hand and refill it with Ultimate Infestation.
- Level Up! now straight up can't be used in odd paladin, so now the scariest thing they can do is Fungalmancer on 5 or Sunkeeper Tarim on 6 (the latter was actually already the scariest thing but having Tarim on turn 6 is much less consistent and he is rotating out soon). This does make Quartermaster seem pretty unfair though.
- The Saronite Chain Gang nerf completely prevents standard Shudderwock decks from gaining multiple copies of Shudderwock, and it forces wild Shudderwock decks to use the less powerful Doppelgangster (or Echoing Ooze but that's incredibly slow and inconsistent). This is great because, especially in standard, shudderwock should be a powerful one-turn effect like N'Zoth, the Corruptor or C'Thun used to be: strong but not completely gamewinning, and requires buildup.
- Whenever I thought about what would be the best way to nerf Kingsbane decks, I would always conclude that changing Leeching Poison to be a one-turn effect would be the best way so I'm really glad to see this nerf. (btw, I bet no one expected Leeching Poison to be nerfed back when it was released in KFT lol)
I have to give props to Blizzard for this one, can't wait to see how these nerfs will shake up both the standard and wild meta (I just hope hunters won't become too dominant).
Edit: I forgot to mention that the saronite chaingang nerf also makes the card a lot less strong with buffs, which is a pretty big deal as well. I'm a little sad that this also hurts handbuff decks (rip Val'anyr synergy :'( ), but overall I think it's good for the game.
I also just realized I recently dusted my third Level up!... RIP 300 dust.
Sunkeeper Tarim is actually even, so it also cannot be used.
Captain Greenskin was playable in the past in Pirate Warrior and it is still playable Right now in Odd Rogue (both Wild and Standard) and future Pirate Rogue lists, I wouldn't write him off just yet.
I strongly agree with you, but I have a small question - how essential is he in odd rogue decks? Is there a better (and a cheaper) replacement for him?
[edit] I can see some future aggro (odd) pirate decks, which will benefit from Raiding Party (and thus from him as well). But dunno, back in MSoG I was never afraid when seeing a PW playing Greenskin against me. I either had an Ooze for their weapon or I didn't. I remember thinking that he was slow in that deck.
He's not essential/core in odd Rogue. Not a bad card to play but people cut him from lists because you want an impactful 5 drop and you don't always have your dagger up on 5 and even when you do you can get more value from a fungalmancer or dragon dude.
This is exactly what I meant. People are better off cutting him for more impactful cards. So his "playablity" doesn't really matter and thus he has to be demoted to tier 3.
But in all honesty, I agree with you that we shouldn't write him off just yet. Especially now that we have Raiding Party, which gives rise to a new, potentially strong package. And even if Kingsbane isn't part of it, Captain Greenskin might be.
Found the Hunter player.
Captain Greenskin was playable in the past in Pirate Warrior and it is still playable Right now in Odd Rogue (both Wild and Standard) and future Pirate Rogue lists, I wouldn't write him off just yet.
Very happy about this. Saronite Chain Gang is still nuts as a 4/6 for 4 Mana with Taunt separated in two bodies. At least its not possible to abuse handbuffs with this card anymore. And the Kingsbane Nerf, YÖSSSS! :D
the same odd paladin deck has been in tier 1 for 3 expansions straight since witchwood. "Hs alr balance"
I strongly agree with you, but I have a small question - how essential is he in odd rogue decks? Isn't there a better (and a cheaper) replacement for him?
[edit] I can see some future aggro (odd) pirate decks, which will benefit from Raiding Party (and thus from him as well). But dunno, back in MSoG I was never afraid when seeing a PW playing Greenskin against me. I either had an Ooze for their weapon or I didn't. I remember thinking that he was slow in that deck.
Lord Jaraxxus says hi
Merry Xmas everyone guys! Joking aside I'm really glad we got a balance patch because even after the expansion release the meta felt awfully stale and these nerfs are certainly gonna shake things up.... I'm afraid Hunter might get even more popular but you can tech against that.... Now onto the nerfs...
Odd Paladin got murdered,without Level Up! unless they "highroll" Stonehill (which seems to happen every last game) they have no of buffing their Tokens till turn 7 and that makes them very vulnerable to mass removal,even AOE of those classes whose AOE is supposed to suck like Hunter and Rogue... I suppose we might see Even Pally rise again but without 4 mana CTA it shouldn't that difficult too keep them in check...
Not only Ramp but any kind of Druid Deck took a huge hit as well.... As much as I feel the class has too many overtuned cards I feel that Nourish nerf was kinda overkill because Wild Growth to 3 is so huge... I don't have stats to back the claim up but I'm pretty sure Druid's winrate is heavily affected by Wild Growth on turn 2... Nourish on the other hand was never a problem,even more so without turn 2 Wild Growth,before UI was released it was used as 5 mana draw 3 which is perfectly fine, and even when it was used for ramp it didn't matter that much because the Druid didn't have a way to replenish their hand....
Saronite nerf severely hurts Shudderwock (which I don't think needed to be nerfed but stupid card is stupid so I'm okay with it) but also hits all the Decks running Keleseth and buffs in general.... Personally I'm glad Zoo won't ever drop 2 4/5s on turn 4 again...
As a fierce Kingsbane hater Leeching Poison is probably my favourite nerf here... It doesn't kill the card but it makes it even more crappy against Aggro and gives Control Decks a chance to counter it because now they have to time their healing well,can't keep facetanking everything and Skulking Geist hurts them even more...
Unfortunately none of these changes helps solving Wild's problems,which are Big Priest and Kingsbane (I'd love so much too see the Spellstone and the Mill package nerfed into oblivion) ,but overall this is one of,if not the best, balance patch we've ever got...
"この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない それでも信じて 進むんだ 星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"
Soo what cards totally destroy decks ? <Blizzard>
Level Up! Yeah i am sure Odd Paladin will still be a thing without this card !
Leeching Poison Yeah we prefer to nerf this instead of problematic card design cards like Kingsbane (As if Envenom Weapon was broken in the first place) <Also we do not want to refund Kingsbane for new players that decided to try this deck for a few months>
Also let's nerf more Classic Cards to make Classic set soo bad that new expansions will become slowly the <Evergreen> must craft sets. Well actually Nourish deserved the nerf but ... Wild Growth really just took the Fiery War Axe bullet pretty much.
And problematic cards like Branching Paths and Ultimate Infestation are still there because looks like they do not deserve a nerf.
When will community complain about the actual OP cards or design cards? Leeching Poison was fine why was it even a target? Yeah because Kingsbane had to be redesigned.
Better have redesigns than nerfing support cards is my idea.Will never help in the long-term.
Saronite Chain Gang is still playable but just not in Hand -Buff decks realising that now except Warlock with the Doubling Imp and Hireek, the neutral Hand Buff minion does nothing extra for other classes.
Sums up what they did,at this rate Classic set will be a meme anyway. What was the point of Lifesteal per turn when Rogue 's best weapon was Kingsbane is beyond me anyway,Rogue needs High-Attack Weapons to synergise with these cards i can't see other weapon that does that at the moment.
So i guess it was just a Destroy deck not Nerf deck, typical Blizzard move.
Holy Canoli, I did not see this coming!
I dont think the Wild Growth nerf was necessary when you nerf Nourish already. It does rise some questions that they nerf 2 classic cards, 4 years after release....
Other nerfs are fine by me. It's a shame that Leeching Poison was not a problem in itself but became one because of Kingsbane.
I'm happy Blizzard recognizes that some decks are just unfun to play against (Shudderwock, Kingsbane,...) and does something about it. They don't need to have an excessive power lvl to justify a 'nerf'.
Would have loved to see a nerf to Spell Hunter as well (Spellstone to 6 mana?), but I'll take these.
The nerf to Saronite Chain Gang is exactly that what's been asked for by many people (including myself) shortly after the ridiculous combo with Shudderwock gained traction. I like that they chose to nerf Saronite instead of Grumble, Worldshaker. Also, now Shudderwock can be played as how it was supposed to act => a huge, but one-time value generator instead of an infinite OTK piece (of shit). Yeah, in Wild you can still create multiple copies via Doppelgangster before bouncing them back but it's full of broken stuff anyway.
Wild Growth and Nourish... will be played even with the increased mana cost. It's just that those lightning fast openers such as T2 WG into T3 Coin + Nourish will be gone. I think these two have been nerfed mainly with Combo Druid in mind rather than pure Ramp.
In regards to Level Up!, a few days ago I realised again that Odd Paladin is quite an old deck. It doesn't use ANY card from RR + BDP and just a SINGLE card from WW which is Baku the Mooneater. That and the fact that the spell at 5 mana was, as someone else already said, almost a more broken iteration of Sunkeeper given how easy it is for the Paladin to flood the board with dudes.
Take a bow, T5.
I really like these nerfs, excited to see how the meta will change now.
Off I go climbing the ladder with odd Pally before the nerf goes live.
Happy about the nerfs, but the timing feels weird. Lots of people crafted Shudderwock, Kingsbane etc which are expensive decks that are now unplayable in their current state. Getting back dust on the cheapest cards in those decks is a feelsbadman :/
https://outof.cards
idiotic!
i mean, i'm fine that the druid ramping stops but they should stop nerfing base and classic cards!
Yeah, but you get him through Stonehill Defender fairly often
double nerf on ramping spells for druid, I am ok with the wild growth one but nourish seems a bit overkill, maybe they want to enable different deck building options for druid but have they released cards to support that?
pretty balanced nerf for kingsbane, skulking is even stronger, higher skillcap required to play it, maybe it will enable a faster version of the deck who knows..
saronite nerf is very good for zoo and any kind of hand-buff mechanic, completely obliterated Shudder decks but it was not a tier 1 deck and it had not that much time left since Grumble is kinda soon rotating out so I do not understand this choice.
overall I feel like this is a nice intro to Hunterstone.
"Hey. Hey. Do you wanna buy a funnel cake?" Undercity Huckster
Wow I am dumb. :D
But let's be honest, they always get it from Stonehill Defender anyway.
He's not essential/core in odd Rogue. Not a bad card to play but people cut him from lists because you want an impactful 5 drop and you don't always have your dagger up on 5 and even when you do you can get more value from a fungalmancer or dragon dude.
This is exactly what I meant. People are better off cutting him for more impactful cards. So his "playablity" doesn't really matter and thus he has to be demoted to tier 3.
But in all honesty, I agree with you that we shouldn't write him off just yet. Especially now that we have Raiding Party, which gives rise to a new, potentially strong package. And even if Kingsbane isn't part of it, Captain Greenskin might be.
Also, to the people fearing a year of Hunterstone: Spell, Recruit and Deathrattle will lose many vital cards (Wandering Monster, Flanking Strike, Lesser Emerald Spellstone, To My Side!, Rhok'delar... Play Dead, Terrorscale Stalker, Carnivorous Cube... Kathrena Winterwisp and Deathstalker Rexxar) in less than four months. Only Secret Hunter will remain somewhat intact but without the spellstone it will be much less powerful.
Is druid going to be unplayable now? Legit mad if my expensive druid cards will become useless because they nerfed classic druid cards again?!
It's not rng if you call - Amaz