Well, I guess you missed the starting part. You will have an extremely hard time finding a game that includes timed mechanics that doesn't provide a warning for that mechanics timer. It just stands to reason.
I think you may be having difficulty following the point I was trying to make earlier. Whether or not we can find a game that has time mechanics without warning is irrelevant - in the same way that we don't need to find a magical race of flying humans to imagine what it would be like if humans could fly. The point is that my OP was for us to consider what the game would be like if there was no rope and how players would act differently and what they would change in their game style if there was no rope to rely on. It was not to discuss whether the removal of the rope mechanic is a good idea or not. Instead of complaining that this is a terrible idea, blah blah - of course it is - instead, consider how you would do things differently if the rope wasn't there. If it makes it easier, let's assume that Blizzard completely missed this bit of game design somehow and it was a reality....
The vast majority of the player base will not be timing the mechanic, they will be focused on whichever other part of the game is more important than the timing itself, and that is why the warnings are always added for players, to give them that information they actually need, but don't keep track of manually.
I don't use deck trackers, I still keep track of all the cards in my deck, my opponents deck, the position in the opponent hand and how long they have been there, and a couple other aspects. The one thing I actually never keep track of is the turn timer, because I consider the other aspects to be far more important, and that is how it works for most aspects in most games out there.
This is the point I was getting at... You don't keep of the timer, because the warning is there to make it easier for you. But what if it wasn't? Would you start using a timer tracker? Would you learn to play your turns quicker?
We are normally conditioned to be warned about most things that happen, the biggest disasters come from lack of warnings. Were we to have perfect information to warn about Earthquakes, they would conceivable cause much less damage than they do, whereas some like Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Tsunamis, so on, which can more accurately informed and warned, tend to cause less damage.
This... is a bit of a ramble here. You sound like you are in the direction of talking about design and why things are designed. That's not the purpose of my discussion.
I know it is not the best of comparisons, but by this I just want to illustrate that any unforeseen circumstance that catches people off guard tends to cause greater damage and obvious more frustration. Warnings are extremely important for people. They are a necessity and by and last, tend to be always present unless it is not possible to predict the cause of the warning.
That's all fine - but we are making the assumption that the warnings weren't considered when the game was created / designed. We're not worried about whether it was a good or bad idea from a design point of view. It is just made that way. And players are playing it that way (in this hypothetical). So we are considering what players are doing to cope with the lack of that warning.
There is just no conceivable world where it would reach 5 years out of launch and still no Warning implemented.
I guess we're just on different wavelengths in our thinking. I find I can easily imagine the game without the rope myself. I don't think it's that hard to use your imagination to do this. I simply pretend that there is no rope... and then i think about what the game would be like and how players would play / deal with that fact.
I talk about if from a design sense because if the game is poorly designed, do you believe it will be successful?
You're confusing what a game might be like in actuality with a hypothetical instance in which it is already the case. In the hypothetical, the game IS successful, players are playing it. And dealing with the timer side in different ways. I'm considering what ways these might be. It's not about whether I think making this sort of change would be a success or not. That is beside the point of the discussion. The discussion is based on the assumption that there is no rope, players still play the game and it continues to be played. And then how play style differs based on this criteria.
What players would do to cope with this, as stated above, is they would request Blizzard to implement some Warning. It is hard to try and imagine what it would look like since it is completely unrealistic to ever happen. It is not exact the same as Flying Humans since that has never happened, we have no experience to how it would work and to how feasible it would be. We do have a lot of experience with timed mechanics and at some point, those mechanics didn't include Warnings, they were implemented due to necessity.
You said yourself earlier that no time-based game has ever been implemented without some sort of warning mechanism in place. So that kind of nullifies this paragraph / statement. (Assuming you are correct) Sure, maybe players would request a warning from Blizzard. That's fine. But it doesn't examine how players would play the game in the meantime. What if Blizzard never answered. Some players might quit, sure. What about those that didn't?
It feels a little like you can't comprehend a world where the rope timer didn't exist. What if a glitch happened and it disappeared permanently? What if Blizzard took months to fix it? Would you leave? Would you change your playstyle?
Sure, it's bad design. That's not in question. It doesn't matter if it's a worse design than a chocolate toaster. What matters is how you would adjust your playstyle (and how others would) to accommodate the change. You mention that you never bother to track time - so would that change? Would you prefer to chance it? Or would you do something else? Change your deck preferences?
The key point being the idea that once it's gone, it's gone - in this hypothetical scenario, it's about how would you adjust to that change, and not how would you get Blizzard to fix it - just assume it's not something fixable.
Easy solution. Each time you deliberately wait until the rope ends to annoy your opponent you lose some health or randomly discard a card. Same as the camper warning in some FPS. If it happens three times in a match, you automatically lose and will be unable to queue for 5 mins.
Easy solution. Each time you deliberately wait until the rope ends to annoy your opponent you lose some health or randomly discard a card. Same as the camper warning in some FPS. If it happens three times in a match, you automatically lose and will be unable to queue for 5 mins.
And how is such a system supposed to differentiate from a player trolling/griefing and a player thinking or simply taking a long turn for some combo?
I guess official HS tournaments will be full of players taking no-rope penalties all of the time since those players are almost always taking exceptionally longer or max time limit turns.
The main issue is that animation time can mess with your turn length in several ways, so you couldn't actually be sure when your turn would end, even if you used a timer. I feel like it would add so much uncertainty that it would just end up causing anxiety
I don't know, I generally don't mind too much. The only thing that annoys me are players who play their cards very quickly and then still wait out the turn until the rope is burned up. There could be a feature where your turn automatically is ended when you used up all the mana or have nothing else to play. Though that would not work with 0 mana cards that people could just keep in their hands to rope anyway.
Honestly I sometimes use my turns excess time to think about my next turn/game plan/calculate stuff. Blizzard meant for this I assume and I haven't seen an obvious abuser for a long time(eu-rank 5+ territory and constant arena)
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I think you may be having difficulty following the point I was trying to make earlier. Whether or not we can find a game that has time mechanics without warning is irrelevant - in the same way that we don't need to find a magical race of flying humans to imagine what it would be like if humans could fly.
The point is that my OP was for us to consider what the game would be like if there was no rope and how players would act differently and what they would change in their game style if there was no rope to rely on.
It was not to discuss whether the removal of the rope mechanic is a good idea or not.
Instead of complaining that this is a terrible idea, blah blah - of course it is - instead, consider how you would do things differently if the rope wasn't there. If it makes it easier, let's assume that Blizzard completely missed this bit of game design somehow and it was a reality....
This is the point I was getting at... You don't keep of the timer, because the warning is there to make it easier for you. But what if it wasn't? Would you start using a timer tracker? Would you learn to play your turns quicker?
This... is a bit of a ramble here. You sound like you are in the direction of talking about design and why things are designed. That's not the purpose of my discussion.
That's all fine - but we are making the assumption that the warnings weren't considered when the game was created / designed. We're not worried about whether it was a good or bad idea from a design point of view. It is just made that way. And players are playing it that way (in this hypothetical). So we are considering what players are doing to cope with the lack of that warning.
I guess we're just on different wavelengths in our thinking. I find I can easily imagine the game without the rope myself. I don't think it's that hard to use your imagination to do this.
I simply pretend that there is no rope... and then i think about what the game would be like and how players would play / deal with that fact.
You're confusing what a game might be like in actuality with a hypothetical instance in which it is already the case. In the hypothetical, the game IS successful, players are playing it. And dealing with the timer side in different ways. I'm considering what ways these might be.
It's not about whether I think making this sort of change would be a success or not. That is beside the point of the discussion. The discussion is based on the assumption that there is no rope, players still play the game and it continues to be played. And then how play style differs based on this criteria.
You said yourself earlier that no time-based game has ever been implemented without some sort of warning mechanism in place. So that kind of nullifies this paragraph / statement. (Assuming you are correct)
Sure, maybe players would request a warning from Blizzard. That's fine. But it doesn't examine how players would play the game in the meantime. What if Blizzard never answered. Some players might quit, sure. What about those that didn't?
It feels a little like you can't comprehend a world where the rope timer didn't exist. What if a glitch happened and it disappeared permanently? What if Blizzard took months to fix it? Would you leave? Would you change your playstyle?
Sure, it's bad design. That's not in question. It doesn't matter if it's a worse design than a chocolate toaster. What matters is how you would adjust your playstyle (and how others would) to accommodate the change.
You mention that you never bother to track time - so would that change? Would you prefer to chance it? Or would you do something else? Change your deck preferences?
The key point being the idea that once it's gone, it's gone - in this hypothetical scenario, it's about how would you adjust to that change, and not how would you get Blizzard to fix it - just assume it's not something fixable.
With how lazy players are in doing things on their own I actually have a grain of doubt about this.
Easy solution. Each time you deliberately wait until the rope ends to annoy your opponent you lose some health or randomly discard a card. Same as the camper warning in some FPS. If it happens three times in a match, you automatically lose and will be unable to queue for 5 mins.
And how is such a system supposed to differentiate from a player trolling/griefing and a player thinking or simply taking a long turn for some combo?
I guess official HS tournaments will be full of players taking no-rope penalties all of the time since those players are almost always taking exceptionally longer or max time limit turns.
The main issue is that animation time can mess with your turn length in several ways, so you couldn't actually be sure when your turn would end, even if you used a timer. I feel like it would add so much uncertainty that it would just end up causing anxiety
I'd love if the rope did 1 damage a tic. The damage would be applied AFTER you hit the end turn button or the rope timed out.
Or shoot, imagine a brawl like that, with really short turns and damaging rope? I'd love it.
Honestly I sometimes use my turns excess time to think about my next turn/game plan/calculate stuff. Blizzard meant for this I assume and I haven't seen an obvious abuser for a long time(eu-rank 5+ territory and constant arena)
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