Mana Wyrm (1 mana-->2 mana) I've never seen Mana Wyrm be an "Oh crap, I just lost the game" card. I don't think it needed a nerf. Even then, a better nerf would be to reduce its health to 2 (from 3). I just can't agree with it.
Giggling Inventor (5 mana-->7 mana) Giggling Inventor was annoying at best, and I agree it had a nerf coming. Giggling summons 5 mana of stats (2 mana per annoy-o-tron, 1 mana for a 2/1 with no text) I disagree with but understand making it 6 mana, but 7 mana is ridiculous. A better nerf would be to summon 2 1/2 mechs with taunt (No divine shield) or reduce it to 3 mana and it summons 1 annoy-o-tron.
Aviana (9 mana-->10 mana) I would think that Blizzard would know better than this. Druid has innervate. Just add an innervate to your deck and hold it for combo. Or you can just hold coin if you get it. Even then, people would just play Aviana, wait till next turn, and play her again with floop. This is a bad nerf. Blizzard is essentially using collective punishment on most druid decks in wild, just because of 1 archetype. They should nerf star aligner instead. 2 general ideas for nerf: change the minion requirement for SA or change SA entirely. The usual board when playing star aligner is: Aviana, Kun, Brann, Medivh, 2x Star Aligner (6 minions). If they changed the 7 health minion requirement to 4 (Not x/4 minions), then the deck would require 1 more combo piece and an empty board. My other idea is to change SA entirely. This would need playtesting, but it could be along the lines of having 7 7 health or 7 cost minions and it destroys the enemy hero. Another idea: Change it to a Choose One, 7 damage to enemy hero or 7 to all enemy minions. This would be an effective nerf because it would remove the effect of Brann. Even with Fandral, you would only be getting 7 damage to face. I think that would be the best possible balance to it. Lastly, Blizz could change it to be a legendary. The tradeoff with legendaries is that they are especially powerful, but you can only have 1 copy in your deck (Which goes to make Blizzard a fair amount of money.)
Mana Wyrm's nerf was a bit over the top, 2 health is probably fine. Giggling Inventor I think is a bit of a valid nerf though, just because the card was literally everywhere. I just don't want it to be nerfed because it's opening the aggro flood gates.
That being said, the Aviana nerf is one of the best nerfs they've done in recent years. The big issue with the combo is just that it could all be drawn from Juicy Psychmelon, these being the star aligner, medivh, aviana and kun. However, now that both kun and aviana are at 10, this card isn't just a straight forward tutor as you still need to draw it. On top of that, now they need to also draw another combo piece in order for it to work. Sure you can still just throw aviana out and then next turn slam a floop, but that just means there is another card that would be needed to complete the combo. Right now consistency is thrown out the window because no matter what way you look at it, you need to draw 2 specific cards, one of which will always be a legendary.
As for the proposed changes to Star aligner, the card itself is fine and doesn't need any. Changing the health requirement to 4 could be fine, but it just makes the entire thing hideous in terms of aesthetics. Take for example Griselbrand from MTG. He's a 7/7 that lets you take 7 damage to draw 7 cards. He costs 8 mana. This is just disgusting, and the same would happen to a 7 mana 7/7 that when you have 3 other minions with 4 health, deals 7 damage to enemies. The other change doesn't change anything because the combo deals 30 damage exactly, with the last 2 coming from the weapon. Chances are the druid can deal 2 damage during the time period of the entire game. The other 7 health thingy where the enemy just dies would make the card be nonexistent.
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I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I just want to talk about the Aviana nerf. Is it entirely Aviana’s fault, or is it the damn psychmelon. I think that maly druid is just as good as star alligner because all psychmelon did was instead of coin flipping Aviana and Malygos, it’s now going to coinflip Aviana and Kun. The nerf also requires an emperor tick or an innervate but all that damn melon did was draw the majority of your combo pieces. So is Aviana+Kun decks a problem, or is it psychmelon and it’s draw?
As a big Mage fan/player, I know how damaging Mana Wyrm can be...along with the coin, it literally can win you games from the outset, with many classes struggling to deal with 3 health minions early on, with the damage taken, along with the spells cast, too hot to handle.
I have expected this nerf for a long time now...and though sad to see it finally drop, cannot really complain about it. We have had it good for far too long now and now the Wyrm needs to be considered as part of a Mage deck - not a simple auto include that can have such a huge effect.
I think it fair....and hopefully Mage can grow stronger for it, as Blizz said this could open up more possibilities for the class, rather than be quite a one dimensional class as it stands now.
Thought was put into Giggling Inventor because it was really prevalent in standard.
Mana Wyrm should have just been hall of famed. Unreasonable nerf. The card is not playable now, at least in wild.
Aviana suggests a linear understanding of Wild. They didn't want to nerf the standard Juicy Psychmelon so she took the hit. The end result will be the same, so at least the nerf will work but overall I just find it to be sloppy.
But it's just my opinion anyway. What do I know!?
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The nerfs are fine. Nobody will mourn these cards. The problem is, they didn't nerf the things people have actually been complaining about. Yes, Mana Wyrm is bullshit and yes, maybe as a neutral you can say GI was in too many decks. But why do cards that pose similar problems escape the chopping block? Both times Quest Rogue received nerfs, the deck was in a similar position as it is now. Not posting absurd winrates but rather just very unenjoyable to play against. So then we end up in the same position and rather just admit that QR is the disease it is, Blizzard chops off Giggling inventor. A card that had counterplay and asked interesting deckbuilding questions.
Do I run Mossy Horror to hit plague and giggling? Do I run Blood Knight to counter giggling and cheat out a giant minion? Do I run giggling myself and face the myriad of tech out there or do I cut it for something unexpected?
Mana wyrm on the other hand increased winrates too much in the early game, but so does keleseth. So why not hit him? Because he will rotate? Then what about wild growth? That card is in almost every single druid deck out there, a problem that Blizzard noted with giggling being too easy to include without build arounds. It's just bizarro world.
I have long thought that playing favorites was an unfortunate by product of being unable to balance all 9 classes appropriately. But when I see obvious problems in obviously powerful classes continually ignored. There is something else going on. Blizzard isn't interested in balancing druid, much like shaman at it's peak. I just don't understand why. All I know, is it's over. This problem of balance will continue and at this point I can not believe it's by mistake. Someone in Blizzard is dictating what classes are on top and doing so on purpose.
I just came back to HS after a long spell away, the game had gotten really stale and boring, these expansions are just glorified points clockers ... Trust me to start using a deck that had 2x Giggling ... oh well .. Seemed to me it was pretty easy to deal with with so many other OP cards - now aggro will run riot, but Blizz tend to love that.
Can't say much about Aviana nerf cause i only play standard - but i understand that the nerf was kinda needed from other players i watch that play wild!
Mana Wyrm nerf is pretty hard - i would have nerfed it to 1/2 or even 0/2 but with the same ability.
Giggling Inventor is pretty dead now i think. But it was pretty reasonable because the card is in almost every deck :)
They're all completely reasonable. I wish we would have seen 1 or 2 more cards nerfed though.
This, Druid Genn and Baku are still major issues.
I would have liked Explosive Runes changed. Also, I think UI is over the top.
What would you change about Runes? i think its fine but im interested in what you would change about Runes. And yes UI could use somekind of nerf - maybe drop the 5/5 minion ?
Reduce the damage. It's a ridiculously punishing secret.
UI shouldn't draw you cards IMO (or shouldn't be able to target face). The punishment for ramping early and typically been giving up card advantage because you're playing Wild Growth and Nourish, which don't affect the board state. UI is a card that rewards you for dumping your hand and ramping asap. If it didn't draw you cards, it would be more punishing to ramp fast. If it wasn't able to target face, your opponent could somewhat delay it by keeping the board empty or forcing you to use it on your own minions.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
The mere existence of Aviana and Kun makes some ridiculous combos possible, because the limiting factor becomes board space, not mana. The psychmelon is really good, because it draws your entire combo.
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I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
My only issue is with the Aviana nerf. The other cards could have been changed more properly - fewer Annoy-o-Trons or w/o divine shield like you suggested, Mana Wyrm could have its health reduced to 2 (I always hated playing against this card) - but I don't really care about them. Giggling Inventor, the same way as Bonemare and Corridor Creeper, saw too much play, she had ZERO downsides as we read in the bluepost.
Aviana imho should have been left the way she is and instead the stupidly designed Juicy Psychmelon should have been changed. Having the ability to draw 4 cards for 4 mana is ridiculous, even drawing only 3. I personally think that drawing 2 is still good, because the spell acts as a tutor.
Some may argue, that the Aviana+Kun the Forgotten King decks would have found other ways to assemble their pieces and thus the druid combo decks would have become dominant sooner or later. But imho this is because the devs are disacknowledging the fact how classes SHOULD HAVE WEAKNESSES. And it's their fault how they gave druids cards like SP, UI, tons of armour gain and what not. If it wasn't for those cards, druid decks would still have surviving issues. Aviana and Kun (+ other combo pieces) would remain dead cards against any proactive decks.
when i saw these nerfs i was like "giggling yeah, that was obvious, aviana yeah, saw that one comming, wait... mana worm?"
Mana Wyrm has been an OP starter for spell mage decks forever, about time I say. The same people who run it went mad over other one drops that got buffed rnd 1/2 - I honestly don't know how it's survived to now
Ok, but what would you reduce it too? 3 damage? seems pretty bad? maybe 4??
Yes, that sounds good - either UI can`t hit face or doesn't draw you cards - the question is if you get a 5/5 minion and 5 damage that can't go face - should it stay at 10 Mana?
Honestly....I'd rather just take face damage than it be a Leeroy Jenkins with Trample (MTG term for what Explosive Runes does). The inability to contest the board with any minion that doesn't have at least 8 health (at 7 health it can simply be pinged off next turn) is silly. Or you need to run Eggs in a deck that shouldn't be running Eggs.
Yes, keep UI at 10 mana. It's similarly as powerful as a 10-mana Kazakus spell, but is far less flexible in that you can't get AOE or mass Polymorph from it.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Mana Wyrm (1 mana-->2 mana)
I've never seen Mana Wyrm be an "Oh crap, I just lost the game" card. I don't think it needed a nerf. Even then, a better nerf would be to reduce its health to 2 (from 3). I just can't agree with it.
Giggling Inventor (5 mana-->7 mana)
Giggling Inventor was annoying at best, and I agree it had a nerf coming. Giggling summons 5 mana of stats (2 mana per annoy-o-tron, 1 mana for a 2/1 with no text) I disagree with but understand making it 6 mana, but 7 mana is ridiculous. A better nerf would be to summon 2 1/2 mechs with taunt (No divine shield) or reduce it to 3 mana and it summons 1 annoy-o-tron.
Aviana (9 mana-->10 mana)
I would think that Blizzard would know better than this. Druid has innervate. Just add an innervate to your deck and hold it for combo. Or you can just hold coin if you get it. Even then, people would just play Aviana, wait till next turn, and play her again with floop. This is a bad nerf. Blizzard is essentially using collective punishment on most druid decks in wild, just because of 1 archetype. They should nerf star aligner instead. 2 general ideas for nerf: change the minion requirement for SA or change SA entirely. The usual board when playing star aligner is: Aviana, Kun, Brann, Medivh, 2x Star Aligner (6 minions). If they changed the 7 health minion requirement to 4 (Not x/4 minions), then the deck would require 1 more combo piece and an empty board. My other idea is to change SA entirely. This would need playtesting, but it could be along the lines of having 7 7 health or 7 cost minions and it destroys the enemy hero. Another idea: Change it to a Choose One, 7 damage to enemy hero or 7 to all enemy minions. This would be an effective nerf because it would remove the effect of Brann. Even with Fandral, you would only be getting 7 damage to face. I think that would be the best possible balance to it. Lastly, Blizz could change it to be a legendary. The tradeoff with legendaries is that they are especially powerful, but you can only have 1 copy in your deck (Which goes to make Blizzard a fair amount of money.)
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
Mana Wyrm's nerf was a bit over the top, 2 health is probably fine. Giggling Inventor I think is a bit of a valid nerf though, just because the card was literally everywhere. I just don't want it to be nerfed because it's opening the aggro flood gates.
That being said, the Aviana nerf is one of the best nerfs they've done in recent years. The big issue with the combo is just that it could all be drawn from Juicy Psychmelon, these being the star aligner, medivh, aviana and kun. However, now that both kun and aviana are at 10, this card isn't just a straight forward tutor as you still need to draw it. On top of that, now they need to also draw another combo piece in order for it to work. Sure you can still just throw aviana out and then next turn slam a floop, but that just means there is another card that would be needed to complete the combo. Right now consistency is thrown out the window because no matter what way you look at it, you need to draw 2 specific cards, one of which will always be a legendary.
As for the proposed changes to Star aligner, the card itself is fine and doesn't need any. Changing the health requirement to 4 could be fine, but it just makes the entire thing hideous in terms of aesthetics. Take for example Griselbrand from MTG. He's a 7/7 that lets you take 7 damage to draw 7 cards. He costs 8 mana. This is just disgusting, and the same would happen to a 7 mana 7/7 that when you have 3 other minions with 4 health, deals 7 damage to enemies. The other change doesn't change anything because the combo deals 30 damage exactly, with the last 2 coming from the weapon. Chances are the druid can deal 2 damage during the time period of the entire game. The other 7 health thingy where the enemy just dies would make the card be nonexistent.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I just want to talk about the Aviana nerf. Is it entirely Aviana’s fault, or is it the damn psychmelon. I think that maly druid is just as good as star alligner because all psychmelon did was instead of coin flipping Aviana and Malygos, it’s now going to coinflip Aviana and Kun. The nerf also requires an emperor tick or an innervate but all that damn melon did was draw the majority of your combo pieces. So is Aviana+Kun decks a problem, or is it psychmelon and it’s draw?
They're all completely reasonable. I wish we would have seen 1 or 2 more cards nerfed though.
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Hearthstone players will forever be beta testers.
This, Druid Genn and Baku are still major issues.
As a big Mage fan/player, I know how damaging Mana Wyrm can be...along with the coin, it literally can win you games from the outset, with many classes struggling to deal with 3 health minions early on, with the damage taken, along with the spells cast, too hot to handle.
I have expected this nerf for a long time now...and though sad to see it finally drop, cannot really complain about it. We have had it good for far too long now and now the Wyrm needs to be considered as part of a Mage deck - not a simple auto include that can have such a huge effect.
I think it fair....and hopefully Mage can grow stronger for it, as Blizz said this could open up more possibilities for the class, rather than be quite a one dimensional class as it stands now.
My magic will tear you......oh.
I would have liked Explosive Runes changed. Also, I think UI is over the top.
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Thought was put into Giggling Inventor because it was really prevalent in standard.
Mana Wyrm should have just been hall of famed. Unreasonable nerf. The card is not playable now, at least in wild.
Aviana suggests a linear understanding of Wild. They didn't want to nerf the standard Juicy Psychmelon so she took the hit. The end result will be the same, so at least the nerf will work but overall I just find it to be sloppy.
But it's just my opinion anyway. What do I know!?
Phrasing (My fault): I meant you have to have 4 x/7 minions, not 4 health minions. My fault (I'm gonna change that)
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
The nerfs are fine. Nobody will mourn these cards. The problem is, they didn't nerf the things people have actually been complaining about. Yes, Mana Wyrm is bullshit and yes, maybe as a neutral you can say GI was in too many decks. But why do cards that pose similar problems escape the chopping block? Both times Quest Rogue received nerfs, the deck was in a similar position as it is now. Not posting absurd winrates but rather just very unenjoyable to play against. So then we end up in the same position and rather just admit that QR is the disease it is, Blizzard chops off Giggling inventor. A card that had counterplay and asked interesting deckbuilding questions.
Do I run Mossy Horror to hit plague and giggling? Do I run Blood Knight to counter giggling and cheat out a giant minion? Do I run giggling myself and face the myriad of tech out there or do I cut it for something unexpected?
Mana wyrm on the other hand increased winrates too much in the early game, but so does keleseth. So why not hit him? Because he will rotate? Then what about wild growth? That card is in almost every single druid deck out there, a problem that Blizzard noted with giggling being too easy to include without build arounds. It's just bizarro world.
I have long thought that playing favorites was an unfortunate by product of being unable to balance all 9 classes appropriately. But when I see obvious problems in obviously powerful classes continually ignored. There is something else going on. Blizzard isn't interested in balancing druid, much like shaman at it's peak. I just don't understand why. All I know, is it's over. This problem of balance will continue and at this point I can not believe it's by mistake. Someone in Blizzard is dictating what classes are on top and doing so on purpose.
I just came back to HS after a long spell away, the game had gotten really stale and boring, these expansions are just glorified points clockers ... Trust me to start using a deck that had 2x Giggling ... oh well .. Seemed to me it was pretty easy to deal with with so many other OP cards - now aggro will run riot, but Blizz tend to love that.
Lol you know it's a sad time when Mana Wyrm gets a nerf. This game is going to hell real fast.
Reduce the damage. It's a ridiculously punishing secret.
UI shouldn't draw you cards IMO (or shouldn't be able to target face). The punishment for ramping early and typically been giving up card advantage because you're playing Wild Growth and Nourish, which don't affect the board state. UI is a card that rewards you for dumping your hand and ramping asap. If it didn't draw you cards, it would be more punishing to ramp fast. If it wasn't able to target face, your opponent could somewhat delay it by keeping the board empty or forcing you to use it on your own minions.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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when i saw these nerfs i was like "giggling yeah, that was obvious, aviana yeah, saw that one comming, wait... mana worm?"
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
The mere existence of Aviana and Kun makes some ridiculous combos possible, because the limiting factor becomes board space, not mana. The psychmelon is really good, because it draws your entire combo.
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.
My only issue is with the Aviana nerf. The other cards could have been changed more properly - fewer Annoy-o-Trons or w/o divine shield like you suggested, Mana Wyrm could have its health reduced to 2 (I always hated playing against this card) - but I don't really care about them. Giggling Inventor, the same way as Bonemare and Corridor Creeper, saw too much play, she had ZERO downsides as we read in the bluepost.
Aviana imho should have been left the way she is and instead the stupidly designed Juicy Psychmelon should have been changed. Having the ability to draw 4 cards for 4 mana is ridiculous, even drawing only 3. I personally think that drawing 2 is still good, because the spell acts as a tutor.
Some may argue, that the Aviana+Kun the Forgotten King decks would have found other ways to assemble their pieces and thus the druid combo decks would have become dominant sooner or later. But imho this is because the devs are disacknowledging the fact how classes SHOULD HAVE WEAKNESSES. And it's their fault how they gave druids cards like SP, UI, tons of armour gain and what not. If it wasn't for those cards, druid decks would still have surviving issues. Aviana and Kun (+ other combo pieces) would remain dead cards against any proactive decks.
Mana Wyrm has been an OP starter for spell mage decks forever, about time I say. The same people who run it went mad over other one drops that got buffed rnd 1/2 - I honestly don't know how it's survived to now
Honestly....I'd rather just take face damage than it be a Leeroy Jenkins with Trample (MTG term for what Explosive Runes does). The inability to contest the board with any minion that doesn't have at least 8 health (at 7 health it can simply be pinged off next turn) is silly. Or you need to run Eggs in a deck that shouldn't be running Eggs.
Yes, keep UI at 10 mana. It's similarly as powerful as a 10-mana Kazakus spell, but is far less flexible in that you can't get AOE or mass Polymorph from it.
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Kaladin couldn't have summed up UI better myself
I'm Nate and I enjoy writing. I got kicked off of my school newspaper so I figured I'd bring my passion to my favorite game.