There is no point in having only interactive decks in the game. Losing is never fun, you are not happy to lose to any of competitive decks, doesnt matter if its combo or midrange. You dont feel better losing to tempo rogue rather than to exodia mage. Deck should be fun to play with, thats all. Its just happened that playing some otk decks is the most fun in the game. Whats really bad is that you have to play non-fun but very resultative deck to be able to climb - nor you or your opponent dont have any joy from process of the game.
I played hs quite a lot and Blizzard killed all my favorite decks. I switched to wild, because curently there is literally zero competitive standart decks that i would enjoy playing. And i dont see how this "interactive" meta is enjoyable for anyone. You might argue that priest is otk atm, but i dont think if priest would suddenly gone, things would get better for you
It doesn't feel good to lose against Tempo Rogue, that's for sure.
The point is that losing against repeated freeze-ice block, or machine gun, feels much worse.
It's not even OTK vs interactivity per se (eg. Trading). It is that it feels like your efforts were effortlessly destroyed by huge cards or combos.
Required skill (which is allegedly very high for the decks above) does not matter either, in the perception of the game.
It is the feeling of being *cheated* in general, of which Tempo Rogue is also partially responsible, with Bonemare and Corridor Creeper.
But never at the levels of (multiple) Ice Block + freeze, or machine gun Shadowreaper Anduin (where Razakus is obviously much more versatile, and ends up being oppressive in the meta).
Just compare a match against Wild Malygod Rogue and against Razakus. You can't tell me it is the same to you (unless you are playing Mill), yet they are both OTK or OTK-ish.
Yea same, I really hate losing to exodia mage because the lack of interactivity on my part. You can't win ever no matter what. It's a bullshit deck to play against and you can hear the deck user cackling away like a witch as they bust out their combo and ignore whatever board you have and destroy you no matter how much health/armour you have.
What I don't get about it either is that it just suspends turn time and you can fireball forever wtf is up with that? if they had a time limit like a normal player you might get an extra turn if you are super lucky.
Yea same, I really hate losing to exodia mage because the lack of interactivity on my part. You can't win ever no matter what. It's a bullshit deck to play against and you can hear the deck user cackling away like a witch as they bust out their combo and ignore whatever board you have and destroy you no matter how much health/armour you have.
What I don't get about it either is that it just suspends turn time and you can fireball forever wtf is up with that? if they had a time limit like a normal player you might get an extra turn if you are super lucky.
I disagree again. The interactivity lies in playing really agressively, even with control decks, playing around their AOE and breaking the blocks as quickly as possible. You know his game plan, but you can actually ajust your own to make it very difficult for him to assemble his combo in time.
I think that people complaining about "uninteractive" decks should first try those decks to really understand the powerlevel and the mechanics behind the decks. Otherwise we have nothing to talk about here :D
I think that people complaining about "uninteractive" decks should first try those decks to really understand the powerlevel and the mechanics behind the decks. Otherwise we have nothing to talk about here :D
Nope. Required skill has nothing to do with uninteractivity.
Bad players may have a lower winrate with Razakus, but Razakus stays uninteractive (and its diffusion in the meta makes it oppressive).
The premise of this OP is such crap. The manner of the loss and the fun as a result varies wildly. You must be a hyper competitive, incredibly bad loser at all things, not just hearthstone. I assure you, you are in the extreme minority.
If I feel the opponent outplayed me, or even got a little lucky I don't mind and can still have plenty of fun playing hearthstone. I'll give you a couple of examples of regular losses that induce the most rage In myself.
- Pirate warrior/face hunter/hyper aggro decks, turn 4 turn 5 loss, where even if i'd drawn a board clear or taunt it would be too late to stop their godhand mulligan. Am I playing a game or a cowclicker BS mobile game?
- Big Priest into turn 3/4 Barnes and endless BS revives or 8 to 10 mana cost minions, cheat turn enables cycle of cheating turns. Total bollocks.
It’s funny to see people declaring that interactivity is something that is objective yet Blizzard, who makes all the decisions, likely disagrees with many of their posts as the writing is on the wall that they will HoF iceblock for its uninteractivity
It’s funny to see people declaring that interactivity is something that is objective yet Blizzard, who makes all the decisions, likely disagrees with many of their posts as the writing is on the wall that they will HoF iceblock for its uninteractivity
If Ice Block lacked interactivity, they would either remove it from the game or nerf it to a point of interactivity. Sending it to Hall Of Fame simply forces Mages to adapt and create new playstyles without going back to the usual Combos for best playstyle. It is objective, only someone who cannot process simple logic cannot understand it. The moment there are actions in the game which allow people to interact with something, that something is interactive.
It’s funny to see people declaring that interactivity is something that is objective yet Blizzard, who makes all the decisions, likely disagrees with many of their posts as the writing is on the wall that they will HoF iceblock for its uninteractivity
If Ice Block lacked interactivity, they would either remove it from the game or nerf it to a point of interactivity. Sending it to Hall Of Fame simply forces Mages to adapt and create new playstyles without going back to the usual Combos for best playstyle. It is objective, only someone who cannot process simple logic cannot understand it. The moment there are actions in the game which allow people to interact with something, that something is interactive.
Or it will send Mage to garbage tier (see warrior.) Mage has only sporadically had tier 1 decks, many of the strongest decks have not run ice block, and ice block has not saved mage from being garbage tier in the past. Mage is not even THE combo class atm, it just has several decent decks with none being fantastic.
I agree with the other people. I fucking hate losing against a non interactive deck like Quest Mage, because i expend more than 10 minutes without making any decision, so you are totally wrong about what you are talking about. Yeah, i hate losing, but against aggro and midrange is usually faster and i make decisions that affects the game.
Being a spectator of how your opponent is having a blast and you don't really do anything, that is fucked up.
Or it will send Mage to garbage tier (see warrior.) Mage has only sporadically had tier 1 decks, many of the strongest decks have not run ice block, and ice block has not saved mage from being garbage tier in the past. Mage is not even THE combo class atm, it just has several decent decks with none being fantastic.
It is likely to send it to garbage tier, but then again, once Ice Block rotates, I have little intention to play Mage in Standard. As for Mage having sporadically Tier 1 decks, that is true, but when it comes to the strongest decks of the class, all of the strongest decks for this class except for the few Tempo Mages that were really successful were decks using Ice Block.
And I'm not sure about Mage not being the Combo class at the moment. Having Ice Block gives Mage the ability to be the best Combo class in the game, aswell as it's assortment of incredibly useful tools for Combo decks, like all the Freezing Tools.
Combo decks generally tend to have one aspect in common mostly every time. They are decks whose removal plan is not exactly a removal plan, but rather, a stall plan. That can come from removal tools, but it can also come from Freezing tools since in most situations, it has a similar result. This combination of tools allows the class to be extremely good for Combo playstyle. The only classes that ever come close to being on the same level in regards to Combo playstyle are Rogue, Druid and Priest, even Warlock at certain point. But still, they lack the most important tool, Ice Block and the I need one more turn ability to finish the game out, what almost every single Combo deck in this and every Card Deck in existence wants. Just one more turn and I can win.
This is where we separate, I think. Mech mage (also a tempo deck) and every version of tempomage is not just "a few" decks, but a myiad of different ones, with cards rotating out and in, stronger and lighter secret focus etc. Freeze mage has often not been viable because of some very weak matchups, so the class has relied on the Ice Block free tempo playstyle for long periods (it is one of the worst cards in the game for tempo, hence an abyssmal arena rating.)
A part of mage's identity is to be fragile, with limited healing, and no taunt class cards. Ice Block opens up a lot of posibilities for the class. Right now, both aggro burn, big spells, exodia and various control decks rely on Ice Block, all of them are playable, but none tier 1. What will be left if you remove it?
every game gets tiresome when you play it too much.. i ask you this. if you were given every single card as a playset and there was no progression, would you play it? remember its a game, its meant to be fun! plenty other games to use energy on if youre tired of it. hs is kinda simple, but there is atleast 12 other online-ccgs that are orth checking out, and they are all a hell of alot more complicated and interesting then HS!
Freeze Mage has been viable at almost all times since Beta
Control warrior vs Freeze mage is the worst matchup in HS history, and when Justicar Trueheart was added to the mix, Freeze mage was out in the cold except for in tournaments with bans. Patron warrior, combo druid, aggressive hunters and even decks teching anti-secret vs Secret Paladin caused major problems as well. You must have a broad understanding of "viable" and "almost all times"...
The thing is that attacks against interactivity targets combo & OTK decks as well, which are one of the main archtypes in HS, alongside aggro, control, and midrange. If we got rid of all OTK decks then you're just leaving other classes to lose constantly to greedy control builds. This is actually why I play many more OTK decks (fun aside) in wild because unless I'm a warlock or priest I can't compete against the greed and high value plays if I attempt control for any other class. So called uninteractive decks have a purpose and actually draw a lot of positive attention as well (take Hysteria for one example).
Also, on the flipside, I can just as easily call many control builds uninteractive. Have you ever played as a control deck on wild vs control lock or Reno Priest? I hardly see how you can call either of those decks interactive during a control match-up when you can't get threats to stick or you have priests stealing/copying all of your crap while also throwing out Kazakus potions, Amara AND Reno which both deny any kind of reach, and then N'Zoth which brings back their card copying garbage all over again.
There is no point in having only interactive decks in the game. Losing is never fun, you are not happy to lose to any of competitive decks, doesnt matter if its combo or midrange. You dont feel better losing to tempo rogue rather than to exodia mage. Deck should be fun to play with, thats all. Its just happened that playing some otk decks is the most fun in the game. Whats really bad is that you have to play non-fun but very resultative deck to be able to climb - nor you or your opponent dont have any joy from process of the game.
I played hs quite a lot and Blizzard killed all my favorite decks. I switched to wild, because curently there is literally zero competitive standart decks that i would enjoy playing. And i dont see how this "interactive" meta is enjoyable for anyone. You might argue that priest is otk atm, but i dont think if priest would suddenly gone, things would get better for you
I disagree. How a deck is to play against matters a lot too to me, and many frustrating non-interactive decks have been nerfed for good reasons!
Even aggro mirrors can be interresting, as they often come down to razorsharp decicions about trades, tempo and damage in the early turns.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
It doesn't feel good to lose against Tempo Rogue, that's for sure.
The point is that losing against repeated freeze-ice block, or machine gun, feels much worse.
It's not even OTK vs interactivity per se (eg. Trading). It is that it feels like your efforts were effortlessly destroyed by huge cards or combos.
Required skill (which is allegedly very high for the decks above) does not matter either, in the perception of the game.
It is the feeling of being *cheated* in general, of which Tempo Rogue is also partially responsible, with Bonemare and Corridor Creeper.
But never at the levels of (multiple) Ice Block + freeze, or machine gun Shadowreaper Anduin (where Razakus is obviously much more versatile, and ends up being oppressive in the meta).
Just compare a match against Wild Malygod Rogue and against Razakus. You can't tell me it is the same to you (unless you are playing Mill), yet they are both OTK or OTK-ish.
Yea same, I really hate losing to exodia mage because the lack of interactivity on my part. You can't win ever no matter what. It's a bullshit deck to play against and you can hear the deck user cackling away like a witch as they bust out their combo and ignore whatever board you have and destroy you no matter how much health/armour you have.
What I don't get about it either is that it just suspends turn time and you can fireball forever wtf is up with that? if they had a time limit like a normal player you might get an extra turn if you are super lucky.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I think that people complaining about "uninteractive" decks should first try those decks to really understand the powerlevel and the mechanics behind the decks. Otherwise we have nothing to talk about here :D
Top deck is cheat
Its a fucking game. Don't play if you don't like it. It's that easy people. I stop when I'm tired of it all the time.
The premise of this OP is such crap. The manner of the loss and the fun as a result varies wildly. You must be a hyper competitive, incredibly bad loser at all things, not just hearthstone. I assure you, you are in the extreme minority.
If I feel the opponent outplayed me, or even got a little lucky I don't mind and can still have plenty of fun playing hearthstone. I'll give you a couple of examples of regular losses that induce the most rage In myself.
- Pirate warrior/face hunter/hyper aggro decks, turn 4 turn 5 loss, where even if i'd drawn a board clear or taunt it would be too late to stop their godhand mulligan. Am I playing a game or a cowclicker BS mobile game?
- Big Priest into turn 3/4 Barnes and endless BS revives or 8 to 10 mana cost minions, cheat turn enables cycle of cheating turns. Total bollocks.
It’s funny to see people declaring that interactivity is something that is objective yet Blizzard, who makes all the decisions, likely disagrees with many of their posts as the writing is on the wall that they will HoF iceblock for its uninteractivity
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I agree with the other people. I fucking hate losing against a non interactive deck like Quest Mage, because i expend more than 10 minutes without making any decision, so you are totally wrong about what you are talking about. Yeah, i hate losing, but against aggro and midrange is usually faster and i make decisions that affects the game.
Being a spectator of how your opponent is having a blast and you don't really do anything, that is fucked up.
It's great that you don't mind losing to uninteractive decks any more than normal decks but you're definitely in the minority with that opinion
Thanks to those for pointing out the finer points of playing exodia mage to me, I will review my games against them and see where it is I go wrong
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
every game gets tiresome when you play it too much.. i ask you this. if you were given every single card as a playset and there was no progression, would you play it? remember its a game, its meant to be fun! plenty other games to use energy on if youre tired of it. hs is kinda simple, but there is atleast 12 other online-ccgs that are orth checking out, and they are all a hell of alot more complicated and interesting then HS!
"Madness waits for some. It creeps up on others."
Control warrior vs Freeze mage is the worst matchup in HS history, and when Justicar Trueheart was added to the mix, Freeze mage was out in the cold except for in tournaments with bans. Patron warrior, combo druid, aggressive hunters and even decks teching anti-secret vs Secret Paladin caused major problems as well. You must have a broad understanding of "viable" and "almost all times"...
Otherwise, I am totally with you!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The thing is that attacks against interactivity targets combo & OTK decks as well, which are one of the main archtypes in HS, alongside aggro, control, and midrange. If we got rid of all OTK decks then you're just leaving other classes to lose constantly to greedy control builds. This is actually why I play many more OTK decks (fun aside) in wild because unless I'm a warlock or priest I can't compete against the greed and high value plays if I attempt control for any other class. So called uninteractive decks have a purpose and actually draw a lot of positive attention as well (take Hysteria for one example).
Also, on the flipside, I can just as easily call many control builds uninteractive. Have you ever played as a control deck on wild vs control lock or Reno Priest? I hardly see how you can call either of those decks interactive during a control match-up when you can't get threats to stick or you have priests stealing/copying all of your crap while also throwing out Kazakus potions, Amara AND Reno which both deny any kind of reach, and then N'Zoth which brings back their card copying garbage all over again.