It might be enough to simply change all Charge effects to "Battlecry: Charge."
Don't you see how your argument is self-defeating? If all charge has to be a battlecry, or no heroes the first turn, then why bother with the mechanic in the first place? I get it. I used to think charge was just fine too, but it isn't. The opportunity to make an interactive play to prevent damage will add far more to the gameplay than the ability to launch a surprise face attack. You already lost Power Overwhelming because of charge - what will you lose next (hint Doomguard)? What will you never even know you lost?
It might be enough to simply change all Charge effects to "Battlecry: Charge."
Don't you see how your argument is self-defeating? If all charge has to be a battlecry, or no heroes the first turn, then why bother with the mechanic in the first place? I get it. I used to think charge was just fine too, but it isn't. The opportunity to make an interactive play to prevent damage will add far more to the gameplay than the ability to launch a surprise face attack. You already lost Power Overwhelming because of charge - what will you lose next (hint Doomguard)? What will you never even know you lost?
PO was HoFed just as much for allowing zoolock to make massive value trades and tempo plays by sacking weenie minions while still maintaining board control as it did for allowing face to smorc face more. I'd even say that it was HoF more for the first reason than the second.
it is incredible but, in hearthstone? with the direction bliz has been steering it since DISCOVER mechanic? yeah totally, remove all mechanics and nerf card draw, 1 card per 2 turns. bliz gime my job
It might be enough to simply change all Charge effects to "Battlecry: Charge."
Don't you see how your argument is self-defeating? If all charge has to be a battlecry, or no heroes the first turn, then why bother with the mechanic in the first place?
I can't speak to no-heroes -- I think that's properly reserved for specific cards, like Charged Devilsaur and what's-his-face the Yeti.
I don't see how it's self-defeating, though. Changing Charge to a Battlecry effect simply forces you to spend mana for the first-turn-attack effect ("play"), instead of being able to abuse it via summons. So you can still burst out damage, but not from a summon.
Just stop creating low mana cost charge minions in most cases and charge will be fine. If you only stick charge on expensive minions than the mechanic ends up being much more balanced as you either end up spending your entire turn playing a big minion with charge, or only have 2-3 mana left over to do anything with after playing the minion.
Another option, which may not be realistic now that HS has been around and established for a little while now, is to turn charge into a mechanic that would allow instant attacking, but only on minion targets that first turn. However, I'm not a big fan of that suggestion seeing as how it would immediately kill multiple decks of mine, including the one in my sig.
The problem is that Pandora’s Box is already open with all the basic set cheap chargers like stonetusk and the pirate.
Also, expensive chargers probably aren’t a good design choice with recruit existing. Imagine if Charged Devilsaur was a demon and possessed lackey combo.
Nothing charged, no weapon or spell should be able to hit face.
Finally, someone gets it.
Finally someone gets how to be really stupid you mean. Think about a class like mage.... umm, how would they ever kill anyone? Yep, no spells to face at all. Great, you've just figured it all out haven't you! You better start designing dozens of minions to make mage playable after your nerf to spells. Use your freakin' brain.
No, I definitely don't think that charge should be removed. I think there are a few minions that should have the text: can't attack heroes this turn, though.
I would even go for "cant attack heros at all", because in case of the WL you summon Doomguard from the weapon or the DK and remove the "discard 2" effect (that was/is the original dowside of the card)
You're free to silence it (like Icehowl), but the chance to summon lots of Doomguards with the DK and go face right away is just terrible
The weapon is hardly a reason to change doomguard, you pay 5 mana in advance to randomly drop a demon. You have to build a large portion of your deck around it to make it work and have several cards to make it happen. IMO that's the definition of powerful but not imbalanced.
IMO charge is part of the game, no matter whether it's on Patches, or cast on the Worgen (which they sadly removed by changing the spell) or be it doomguard in warlock decks.
Maybe you should read my posting again.
It is a problem if you summon 4 doomguards with the deathknight. The fact that you can get it from the weapon (and in wild the becomes less and less of a problem to add strong demons) it just isnt that much fun to play against.
some days ago i played against a cubelock that had Mal'Ganis in his deck. He was able to respawn him with 4 doomguards from a cube and deal 28 damage just because he played his DK
I'd think charge is fine. The recruit theme of KnC plus cards from a previous expansion are the real problem I feel. Big Priest, Big Hunter, recruit druid, Spiteful Priest.. All symptoms of the same thing.
If charge mechanics didn't exist aggressive decks and minion based combo decks would be almost non existent because their win condition becomes WAY, way more inconsistent.
So, when Pirate Warrior or Aggro druid wins turn 4, it's thanks to Leeroy ?
Pirate warrior is a strong tempo deck that has a lot of damage from hand in the form of weapons and spells like herioic strike, upgrade and mortal strike. A fiery war axe could be considered a 3 attack minion with charge - should weapons be removed too? Of course not. The charge minions seen in pirate warrior (leeroy jenkins, ko'kron elite and patches the pirate) aren't inherently broken in my opinion, they just seem unfair to play against in conjunction with other cards (southsea captain) and effects (weapons/buffs, from-hand damage).
None too familiar with aggro druid lists, but afaik they only run patches as their charge minion, right? It's not the fact that a 1/1 charge itself is broken; again, it's in conjunction with other effects that make it seem unfair to play against when he's buffed beyond the reach of early removal and steadily doing insane amounts of chip damage because of it.
Charge minions are only the most visible sign of a bigger problem with hearthstone's design. Go ahead and join your lynching party, but I guarantee, true to people's redditor nature, it'll be something else come next week.
there is nothing wrong with charge, leeroy? it's 5 mana deal 6 damage, fireball can do that with 4 mana. why charge should be removed? it's not much different from direct damage or weapons.
Doomguard? the problem isn't with that, it has been there since the beginning, the problem is mostly Dark Pact, Bilizard always messes with 1 mana cards, this time we can have 8 health, death-rattle activator for only one mana and we have two in our deck.
also we want more variations and play styles, not less. i don't see anything being wrong with charge outside of cube-lock decks.
If charge mechanics didn't exist aggressive decks and minion based combo decks would be almost non existent because their win condition becomes WAY, way more inconsistent.
So, when Pirate Warrior or Aggro druid wins turn 4, it's thanks to Leeroy ?
Pirate warrior is a strong tempo deck that has a lot of damage from hand in the form of weapons and spells like herioic strike, upgrade and mortal strike. A fiery war axe could be considered a 3 attack minion with charge - should weapons be removed too? Of course not. The charge minions seen in pirate warrior (leeroy jenkins, ko'kron elite and patches the pirate) aren't inherently broken in my opinion, they just seem unfair to play against in conjunction with other cards (southsea captain) and effects (weapons/buffs, from-hand damage).
None too familiar with aggro druid lists, but afaik they only run patches as their charge minion, right? It's not the fact that a 1/1 charge itself is broken; again, it's in conjunction with other effects that make it seem unfair to play against when he's buffed beyond the reach of early removal and steadily doing insane amounts of chip damage because of it.
Charge minions are only the most visible sign of a bigger problem with hearthstone's design. Go ahead and join your lynching party, but I guarantee, true to people's redditor nature, it'll be something else come next week.
Your first point hits the fact that weapons should be considered like Charge and they should not be removed. You have some kind of a point here, Except, in the history of Hearthstone, 15 cards in relation with Weapons and charge have been nerfed. They have been the most nerfed cards in the past 3 years, even Blizzard recognized their mistakes and they're even thinking putting Stonetusk Boar in the Hall of Fame, you wouldn't do it if charge wasn't overpowered ! You're talking about Fiery War Axe not being a problem when Blizzard themselves nerfed it 4 months ago ! You're also stating Leeroy Jenkins isn't broken when half of the decks of the current World Championship runs this card, this card has even eliminated players after being topdecked !
You're saying patches isn't broken without Southsea Captain when Patches saw play for 2 years in tier1 decks without it. Southsea Captain only makes a broken card even more broken.
And finally you say that Charge isn't the only problem in Hearthstone, and I completely agree, but this thread talks about charge, and so did I.
If you ask me what should be changed about the game, it shouldn't allow mana cost reduction below 1 like Summoning Portal, so no more Razakus or infinite fireballs bullshits. Charge shouldn't be able to hit face & spells should either aim for minions or face (like Mind Blast or Flame Lance but not offer both. And if want to launch a discussion about these mechanics, i'll answer it gladly, But it's not because Charge isn't the only problem that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it.
There's alot of speculation that Doomguard will get nerfed. If he survives the nerf, there's a chance he will be rotated out along with Leeroy. They probably should have made charge be unable to attack heroes in the first place and give them more stats to compensate.
I have literally never seen so many people complain about a deck that isn't broken. Yes, it sucks to get Cubed by like 6 Doomguard, but jesus lol it's not invincible. It's not even a tier 1 deck anymore lololol. Y'all need to stop this nonsense, Cubelock can be beaten fairly easily. If anything, Possessed Lackey provides a bigger problem to the meta than the charging boiis.
If you get rid of charge you might as well get rid of direct damage spells too. There needs to be burst damage in a card game like this.
this ^^^
many decks rely on burst damage, either by chargers/spells/weapons, and they're not inherently broken. eliminating it completely will turn the game into pure curvestone minion-trading. nobody wants that.
Removing charge is stupid. We need burst in the game, and charge isn’t even a big issue right now. If it ever is, it isn’t the mechanic that’s even the problem, it’s the cards balancing.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
it is incredible but, in hearthstone? with the direction bliz has been steering it since DISCOVER mechanic? yeah totally, remove all mechanics and nerf card draw, 1 card per 2 turns. bliz gime my job
I would like a charge/enrage combo to pair with Animated Berserker
I'd think charge is fine. The recruit theme of KnC plus cards from a previous expansion are the real problem I feel. Big Priest, Big Hunter, recruit druid, Spiteful Priest.. All symptoms of the same thing.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
there is nothing wrong with charge, leeroy? it's 5 mana deal 6 damage, fireball can do that with 4 mana. why charge should be removed? it's not much different from direct damage or weapons.
Doomguard? the problem isn't with that, it has been there since the beginning, the problem is mostly Dark Pact, Bilizard always messes with 1 mana cards, this time we can have 8 health, death-rattle activator for only one mana and we have two in our deck.
also we want more variations and play styles, not less. i don't see anything being wrong with charge outside of cube-lock decks.
If you get rid of charge you might as well get rid of direct damage spells too. There needs to be burst damage in a card game like this.
There's alot of speculation that Doomguard will get nerfed. If he survives the nerf, there's a chance he will be rotated out along with Leeroy. They probably should have made charge be unable to attack heroes in the first place and give them more stats to compensate.
I have literally never seen so many people complain about a deck that isn't broken. Yes, it sucks to get Cubed by like 6 Doomguard, but jesus lol it's not invincible. It's not even a tier 1 deck anymore lololol. Y'all need to stop this nonsense, Cubelock can be beaten fairly easily. If anything, Possessed Lackey provides a bigger problem to the meta than the charging boiis.
Death to Aggro!
Removing charge is stupid. We need burst in the game, and charge isn’t even a big issue right now. If it ever is, it isn’t the mechanic that’s even the problem, it’s the cards balancing.
Just make charge unable to hit face on the turn it comes out. Problem solved.
In a game where you're unable to do ANYTHING on your opponent's turn, charge and burn spells can be particularly frustrating.
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