shaman was too long in the dumpster. be prepared for a healthy shaman meta in april, folks. i dont wanna hear any complaints all i want for now is the priest going to hell and never coming back!
Well, it's been what, 6 weeks after the release of K&C? The meta stabilized. Happens after every expansion release. The only 2 viable aggro decks i'm running into is Aggro/Murloc Pally. All 3 archetypes of Priest is seeing play. Dragon/Big/Razakus Priest. Keleseth and Mill Rogue is seeing play. Zoo/Control/Cube Lock seeing play. Secret Mage. Face Hunter. The meta is much slower than just only aggro.
I do agree the meta has a good mix of decks being played ...
But I still SWEAR there is some kind of MMR shenanigans going on that make it seem stale.
Last night, playing Big Priest, a deck that is pretty weak against aggro, I played 12-18 games against an aggro class ... I even had 2 games against an "aggro / midrange" priest. (Keleseth, pirates, ect).
So, I switch to control warlock .... 9 of 12 games ... all caster classes, including 4 warlocks in a row.
While playing Big Priest ... not a single game against a mage, and only 2 against Warlock ... switch decks ... 4 warlocks in a row ... 4 out of 6 games, mage.
For me, that is the big issue ... If I stick to one deck, I don't see the wide range of decks in the meta. At least 3/4 my games are either direct mirror to whatever deck I am playing, or even/poor matchup.
Except of course you would if you actually stuck to the deck. You know statistics and stuff rather than anecdotes and confirmation bias.
That was a strict fact that matchmaking is rigged to make people buy more packs.
Oddly enough, I don't think it has bad intentions behind it. I believe it is a system that is trying to make it harder to just "counter the meta", but I think it needs "tuned" a little better.
In a different thread, myself and a couple other people kept track of games for several days, and it was about as obvious as it could be that changing decks undeniably changed your matchups.
As for sticking to one deck ... that isn't the case either. I have a second account that is f2p, and I literally have one deck. And the results from that account are significantly skewed stats that do not correlate with any of the data from VS.
I am convinced that this is some kind of MMR system that was was implemented around the time of "Druidstone". Back then, when druid was dominating the ladder, no matter what deck I played, druid accounted for a huge percentage of my games played, and it was proportional to what meta stats showed. Since then, something has been changed.
And don't get me wrong ... I am not salty about it. I think it is something that is needed. I do believe it needs to be tuned a little more, to try to get to a lower number of matched games. I think that if 1/3 were matched, and 2/3 were random (and I feel it is about the reverse of that), it would be a reasonable idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
the new wesael tunneler deck is fun and rather viable right now. i beat a jade drud yesterday...mind you it took untll turn 40 but the vctory was oh so bittersweet
Hearthstone gets boring so fast because only 15 out of 130 cards each expansion are playable/broken. So bassicly you get 3 tiny 15 card expansions each year. This is not enough to make any changes to the meta.
So in your perception the only way to make this game viable is when you need to buy 100 new cards every 4 months?
You do buy 100 cards anyway, probably way more even. Opening 20 packs gets you 100 cards. But you don't end up saying "woah, I have a HUNDRED new cards!", instead you say "meh, I got a mediocre legendary and just one good epic", because out of the 135 cards per expansion, very few end up mattering.
Of course, it is up to the meta, which cards end up being useful, but it would be nice if the designers tried a little bit harder to make more than 25% of an expansion good enough for competitive play. Actually, the overall quality of expansions has greatly increased after Un'Goro. There are way less boring no-purpose packfillers nowadays than in TGT, WOG and MSG. And I am fine with the developers saying that not every card is intended for the competitive scene. They don't have to. But so many cards feel like nerfed by design, like a pretty good idea, just too weak to actually be useful. I was actually a bit angry when they said that Webweave was increased to 5 mana before release because they feared it was too strong. I honestly don't think people would have played it even at 4 mana. But either way, I'd rather have that be determined by players, what ends up good or too good, not by the designers. They can always nerf stuff later, but doing that before release just to be on the safe side kills some of the fun of a new expansion.
Just to give a few examples from KnC: I think it would not have hurt if the Golems summoned by Lesser Mithril Spellstone had taunt. The card is cool, but it's just too weak for what it does. Ebon Dragonsmith could have been an interesting card to make some of the new weapons a bit better, but the statline is so weak that the effect isn't quite worth it. Furbolg Mossbinder could set a minions stats to 6/6 and be really strong, but the transform effect is actually a downside (especially since it's limited to friendly minions), the minion itself is bad and the fact that the summoned minion is an elemental doesn't even matter. And while I think Dragonhatcher could have potential in the future, it is just so understatted and/or overcosted, that even the best case scenario feels lackluster. I was also disappointed to see that Warlock got yet another card for killing friendly minions with Dark Pact, but there are still no targets for it (aside from the Cubelock thing). I was sort of expecting that with Ravenous Pterrordax, Unwilling Sacrifice, Sanguine Reveler and Treachery, a new playstyle for Warlock was in the making, but there's still nothing to make these cards really interesting.
I don't ask for making every card over the top powerful, but I'd like to see a few more cards suggesting new playstyles instead of just being "whatever", and at least good enough to make the wacky off-meta decks not completely helpless and obscure in comparison to the stuff everyone else is playing. Have Freeze Shaman be a fun deck that doesn't show up on higher ranks, that's fine with me, but when it works it should feel at least good enough to be worth the trouble.
You want to play in a meta you either play as a control deck and get demolished by jade druid or a 2 minute game againts pirate warrior, that meta was BORING AF, unfunny and not skillful at all.
You want Ungoro back again with Quest rogue ?
You want shotgun priest back ?
The problem is people play HS very seriously , just dont, play it for fun and u will like it a lot.
Meta atm feels not verry good because there are a lot of archtypes people wanna try but theyre not possible to play atm. It basically is rotation waiting room.
Meta atm evolves around warlock/priest beeing overtuned so people only play decks that counter specificaly control Tempo Decks and Jade.
Tempo decks all look the same because there are almost no options every deck goes Creeper/Pirates.
Priest got way overtuned with psychic scream due to the weird "we are one year ahead in developement with cards" politic team 5 is driving atm.
I think the best thing for this game would be , to let Rotation happen just now without a new set. Sadly outrotation of raza,Jades and patches will have more influence on meta than 3 new sets.
Definitely most boring meta....barely seeing any Warrior or Shamans...playing against priest is like sooo painful as all 3 archetypes are annoyingly strong in their own way. Aggro/Murloc Pally & secret mage are all very draw dependent...if you play on curve, you will pretty much win most of the time. The main issue is just that we're only really seeing 2 brand new viable archetypes in Cubelock and Tempo Dragon...all other ones are existing decks with a little bit of K&C flavor in Corridor Creepers or Call To Arms or explosive runes or that Elven Minstrel.
There's casual, wild, arena, dungeon runs, solo adventures, and tavern brawls. Why don't you try one of those if you're bored?
Casual - Still meeting many meta decks. Arena - Broken. If you do not pick Hunter / Priest, u lost. Runs - Well, repeat them w/o change / reward? LOL
With regard to arena, that is total crap. Arena is in a far better state than any other game mode right now, largely thanks to the power level/creep on the new expansion being lower than average (Thank god!)
I got bored of HS since MSoG. Ungoro was interesting but this rotation is one of the most oppressive for certain classes, thus leaving the game (like many people has done) and switching to other alternatives if you like the genre is an optimal idea.
Having said that, play wild or try other games like Gwent, TESL:L, Eternal or even Pokemon! Take a break so you can see HS from outside and see if it deserves to be 'saved'.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
By even printing cards like Patches and jade idol and not nerfing you could see the direction they wanted to take constructed, none of you should be surprised.
But half of you have it ass-backwards...you complain that the expansion is bad because there and no super new powerful decks, but these are created by super powerful cards (hello cubelock) - which is PRECISELY what hearthstone doesn't need. The power level needs to reigned right in, ever since Un'goro it's been off the charts stupid. We still have 30 hp, games need to contain swings, tactics, decisions....without them it degenerates into an RNG fest cow-clicker. Very few people seem to understand this...or perhaps they don't care cause they only play when taking a dump and a cow-clicker is precisely what they want.
Either way, arena is great right now - play there if actually want a decent game of hearthstone. Constructed will be shit until they stop trying to match people's expectations of new cards and rein it right in for a whole rotation (Yup two straight years of people complaining about pack fillers....doubt blizzard is brave enough)
I don't understand people in this thread with the mindset "I'll keep dropping $100-$200 per expansion (to get only 75% of the set) and then accept literally ANYTHING the devs make." I swear the meta could go from the current 4 decks to only 1 deck and most Hearthpwn users would sing songs of praise for such an innovative and "blasty blast" expansion. My guess is many of the people defending the current meta in the thread 1) love to SMORC, 2) have invested over $200 into the expansion, or 3) just started playing. I've been investing about $100 per expansion since Naxx and I can't even afford to keep up anymore, so having a crappy meta is even more frustrating. The NUMBER ONE complaint of almost every expansion has been aggro and meta-cheat cards ----- then Blizz releases Corridor Creeper? They're out of touch with their fanbase in a big way.
I don't understand people in this thread with the mindset "I'll keep dropping $100-$200 per expansion (to get only 75% of the set) and then accept literally ANYTHING the devs make." I swear the meta could go from the current 4 decks to only 1 deck and most Hearthpwn users would sing songs of praise for such an innovative and "blasty blast" expansion. My guess is many of the people defending the current meta in the thread 1) love to SMORC, 2) have invested over $200 into the expansion, or 3) just started playing. I've been investing about $100 per expansion since Naxx and I can't even afford to keep up anymore, so having a crappy meta is even more frustrating. The NUMBER ONE complaint of almost every expansion has been aggro and meta-cheat cards ----- then Blizz releases Corridor Creeper? They're out of touch with their fanbase in a big way.
This is the definition of insanity.
If you choose to keep on paying but also complaining, then who has the problem?
You can choose to leave the game. That is in your right. And nothing else. You can't complain but then also keep paying because what will Blizzard learn from that? (Hint: They will learn that things are going really well and that players will keep generating them money which is the whole point of the game.)
This should not be new information but if it is; alright then. You should learn it now :)
the game was way more fun back in the days. i dont know what the devs smoked when they invented jades. same goes for razakus priest.
nerfed all the beautiful cards back in the day and didnt come up with great ideas recently. just boring simple fcking cards.
7 classes in the meta. 3~4 dominant classes. Man, I think you want MSoG meta back, right? Or Shamanstone back. Geez
We have Aggro/Tempo decks, Control decks, Midrange decks. Which means all the possible archetypes for this game are really strong decks. I think you need to go here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/28947-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty
shaman was too long in the dumpster. be prepared for a healthy shaman meta in april, folks. i dont wanna hear any complaints all i want for now is the priest going to hell and never coming back!
After bs experience this month I moved to wild. There is many people at rank 5 who plays meme decks. And never ever dust wild cards!
One day this game will stop existing. I can't wait.
In a different thread, myself and a couple other people kept track of games for several days, and it was about as obvious as it could be that changing decks undeniably changed your matchups.
As for sticking to one deck ... that isn't the case either. I have a second account that is f2p, and I literally have one deck. And the results from that account are significantly skewed stats that do not correlate with any of the data from VS.
I am convinced that this is some kind of MMR system that was was implemented around the time of "Druidstone". Back then, when druid was dominating the ladder, no matter what deck I played, druid accounted for a huge percentage of my games played, and it was proportional to what meta stats showed. Since then, something has been changed.
And don't get me wrong ... I am not salty about it. I think it is something that is needed. I do believe it needs to be tuned a little more, to try to get to a lower number of matched games. I think that if 1/3 were matched, and 2/3 were random (and I feel it is about the reverse of that), it would be a reasonable idea.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Welcome to Drawstone.
Thanks stupid devs. for the hard work.
Really stupid game :D
the new wesael tunneler deck is fun and rather viable right now. i beat a jade drud yesterday...mind you it took untll turn 40 but the vctory was oh so bittersweet
You want to play in a meta you either play as a control deck and get demolished by jade druid or a 2 minute game againts pirate warrior, that meta was BORING AF, unfunny and not skillful at all.
You want Ungoro back again with Quest rogue ?
You want shotgun priest back ?
The problem is people play HS very seriously , just dont, play it for fun and u will like it a lot.
Arena - Broken. If you do not pick Hunter / Priest, u lost.
Runs - Well, repeat them w/o change / reward? LOL
Meta atm feels not verry good because there are a lot of archtypes people wanna try but theyre not possible to play atm. It basically is rotation waiting room.
Meta atm evolves around warlock/priest beeing overtuned so people only play decks that counter specificaly control Tempo Decks and Jade.
Tempo decks all look the same because there are almost no options every deck goes Creeper/Pirates.
Priest got way overtuned with psychic scream due to the weird "we are one year ahead in developement with cards" politic team 5 is driving atm.
I think the best thing for this game would be , to let Rotation happen just now without a new set. Sadly outrotation of raza,Jades and patches will have more influence on meta than 3 new sets.
That's why I'm taking a break from HS.
Definitely most boring meta....barely seeing any Warrior or Shamans...playing against priest is like sooo painful as all 3 archetypes are annoyingly strong in their own way. Aggro/Murloc Pally & secret mage are all very draw dependent...if you play on curve, you will pretty much win most of the time. The main issue is just that we're only really seeing 2 brand new viable archetypes in Cubelock and Tempo Dragon...all other ones are existing decks with a little bit of K&C flavor in Corridor Creepers or Call To Arms or explosive runes or that Elven Minstrel.
This expansion is just pure garbage.
I got bored of HS since MSoG. Ungoro was interesting but this rotation is one of the most oppressive for certain classes, thus leaving the game (like many people has done) and switching to other alternatives if you like the genre is an optimal idea.
Having said that, play wild or try other games like Gwent, TESL:L, Eternal or even Pokemon! Take a break so you can see HS from outside and see if it deserves to be 'saved'.
"There are bad ways to win-- and good ways to lose. What's interesting and troubling is that it's not always clear which is which. A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all..."
By even printing cards like Patches and jade idol and not nerfing you could see the direction they wanted to take constructed, none of you should be surprised.
But half of you have it ass-backwards...you complain that the expansion is bad because there and no super new powerful decks, but these are created by super powerful cards (hello cubelock) - which is PRECISELY what hearthstone doesn't need. The power level needs to reigned right in, ever since Un'goro it's been off the charts stupid. We still have 30 hp, games need to contain swings, tactics, decisions....without them it degenerates into an RNG fest cow-clicker. Very few people seem to understand this...or perhaps they don't care cause they only play when taking a dump and a cow-clicker is precisely what they want.
Either way, arena is great right now - play there if actually want a decent game of hearthstone. Constructed will be shit until they stop trying to match people's expectations of new cards and rein it right in for a whole rotation (Yup two straight years of people complaining about pack fillers....doubt blizzard is brave enough)
I don't understand people in this thread with the mindset "I'll keep dropping $100-$200 per expansion (to get only 75% of the set) and then accept literally ANYTHING the devs make." I swear the meta could go from the current 4 decks to only 1 deck and most Hearthpwn users would sing songs of praise for such an innovative and "blasty blast" expansion. My guess is many of the people defending the current meta in the thread 1) love to SMORC, 2) have invested over $200 into the expansion, or 3) just started playing. I've been investing about $100 per expansion since Naxx and I can't even afford to keep up anymore, so having a crappy meta is even more frustrating. The NUMBER ONE complaint of almost every expansion has been aggro and meta-cheat cards ----- then Blizz releases Corridor Creeper? They're out of touch with their fanbase in a big way.
Dear OP
Do you want power creep or a stale meta?
You can't have neither; you have to choose one.
Lol just found someone who's prob exactly what I'm talking about.