Think about, the only reason paladin is not dead with warrior and shaman is because only one card Call To Arms. a broken card for resources and tempo.
Why shaman was the Tier 0 and now is Tier trash? Tunnel Trogg, a broken 1 mana drop make overload cards sucks a lot less.
In conclusion, for a balanced meta we need only don't give any broken cards for any class like Raza + DK or Voidlord + Lackey or give broken cards for all classes.
Why don't do that? Why Blizzard think is a good idea 4 or 5 classes be Tier 1 and 4 or 5 classes be Tier trash?
The only time every class was playable with at least a Tier 2 deck was before Standard in the Post LoE - Pre WotOG meta.
Cards rotate out, so it's only natural for some classes that relied on a few cards for each deck to die out. Eventually though they'll get some broken cards and if some other OP cards from other classes rotate out and they'll shine again.
You also have the majority of Hearthstone players to whine about everything. Priest is bad ->Anduin, Raza-> OMG Priest is so broken.
Druid is broken with Combo ->nerf Force of Nature-> Druid is so gimmicky, can't survive the meta -> Jade Idol-> OMG Druid is so broken, I am sad I can't play any control decks.
Think it's a way to keep the meta in control, to more easily predict what decks will be really strong. And this way, you can create a sort of artificial class rotation. Keeping the balance between half of the classes in each period is easier, no doubt, even if balancing all classes could be possible (I don't think it is, indeed). And in the long period, you keep some classes artificially out of the meta, or just out of the top tiers: most classes are still played in little tournaments even when they're not so strong in the ladder environment.
(You should try local tournaments if you didn't yet. Playing in this environments is often more funny than just grindin ladder, especially when lists are published to other participants before the tournament itself)
Think about, the only reason paladin is not dead with warrior and shaman is because only one card Call To Arms. a broken card for resources and tempo.
Why shaman was the Tier 0 and now is Tier trash? Tunnel Trogg, a broken 1 mana drop make overload cards sucks a lot less.
In conclusion, for a balanced meta we need only don't give any broken cards for any class like Raza + DK or Voidlord + Lackey or give broken cards for all classes.
Why don't do that? Why Blizzard think is a good idea 4 or 5 classes be Tier 1 and 4 or 5 classes be Tier trash?
play shadowverse. it's balanced more and further more, is balanced by MTG pro's.
I started playing shadowverse recently and not disappointed at all. I still play HS as well, but it might be something worth looking into.
they also have a much more generous f2p model if that's your thing. You get 50 packs just for doing the tutorial (and you can re-roll those packs if you use a mobile device by deleting and starting again)
the game has a 40 card deck though and you can have 3 of every card (even legendaries) extremely fast paced though. there are control decks, but tempo and aggro is insane.
3,791 posts and you don't know where the salt thread is?
Have one argument here, don't only salt.
Or I wrong and we have a well balanced meta with all 9 classes be competitive?
I'm afraid that was never a case xD. Or atleast there was always one class that sucked (like Priest 2k16).
About your statements above: If you've been playing hearthstone for 2 years, you should have noticed Blizzard is not good at making Meta's since their release. They don't decide which class are gonna be tier 1. I mean, if u look at the poll before the release, some Warrior and Shaman cards (worst classes atm) are rated pretty high, so it's not even predictable by the community, so what are you hoping that a Small Indie Company can foresee? xD
You also have the majority of Hearthstone players to whine about everything. Priest is bad ->Anduin, Raza-> OMG Priest is so broken.
I think is more easy give every class something like "Call To Arms" instead nerfing good cards, give every class a chance to fight.
The problem is remove Axe from warrior and give meme pathetic card like freeze for shaman in same expansion you give warlock cheat 9 manas value so easily.
Maybe I wrong and is hard to balance classes but look Blizzard really want some classes be Tier 0 and others Tier trash on purpose.
The only time every class was playable with at least a Tier 2 deck was before Standard in the Post LoE - Pre WotOG meta.
Lol, no.
On topic: while blizzard had some pretty damn obvious blunders over the course of hearthstone's history when it comes to balancing the classes, I don't think the task is as simple as you are making it out to be. Hearthstone's "balance" is very, very unstable, and the fact that increasing a card's mana cost, health or attack can have such dramatic effects means that it can be tough to predict every possible interaction(see: leeroy jenkins, small time buccaneer, abusive sergeant nerfs).
It's going to be impossible to get every class having a T1/T2 deck because the popularization of some classes and decks leads to the downfall of others. You really can't expect Blizz to be able to release cards and have them magically result in every single class having a T1/T2 deck. While some decks are obvious (Jade Druid, Raza Priest, Quest Mage), it took tons of refinement to piece together decks like Keleseth Tempo Rogue or Renolock to the point where they can be considered fully completed. There's no way Blizz can foresee exactly how every single deck is going to end up. Spell Hunter seemed pretty strong at the beginning of the expansion and Cubelock seemed to be way too good at a certain point, but the meta shifts and compensates for that. Blizz may have been planning for people to play an Overload/Ancestral Shaman deck, but the continued popularity of Raza Priest shuts that option down, even if you could make an optimal deck list for Shaman.
Now, could Blizz do some more nerfing and balance changes during expansions? Definitely. And I really think they should. So, on that end, maybe they're not the best at balancing. But you really can't expect them to foresee everything and plan out a perfect meta. That's ridiculous.
The only time every class was playable with at least a Tier 2 deck was before Standard in the Post LoE - Pre WotOG meta.
Lol, no.
On topic: while blizzard had some pretty damn obvious blunders over the course of hearthstone's history when it comes to balancing the classes, I don't think the task is as simple as you are making it out to be. Hearthstone's "balance" is very, very unstable, and the fact that increasing a card's mana cost, health or attack can have such dramatic effects means that it can be tough to predict every possible interaction(see: leeroy jenkins, small time buccaneer, abusive sergeant nerfs).
Right? I mean often the best deck isn't even discovered until 2 months into the meta, In fact I'm running a new rogue variant unlike anything I've seen before and it's doing pretty well. The only reason it occurs any other way is that people follow the pattern of VS and Tempo storm making it look like the meta is solved. It's a little pathetic really. TLDR; Git gud
The only way to combat this is to have an extremely large card pool. Hearthstone doesn't have it. Even if you count the entirely non-viable cards it is still an extremely small card game. If each expansion had say a thousand cards, then you might see actual innovation but hearthstone is expensive enough as it is to get the full card library.
In short, you're looking for a different game. One which probably doesn't exist.
The only way to combat this is to have an extremely large card pool. Hearthstone doesn't have it. Even if you count the entirely non-viable cards it is still an extremely small card game. If each expansion had say a thousand cards, then you might see actual innovation but hearthstone is expensive enough as it is to get the full card library.
In short, you're looking for a different game. One which probably doesn't exist.
Increasing the card pool size would only worsen the problem. That would only increase the already high amount of "false negative" broken cards that manage to slip by blizzard's quality control.
Also, keep in mind that blizzard probably only keeps one guy working in the quality management department, and he only gets payed 1 dollar per day of work, which is barely enough to live by with a single McDonald's cheeseburger a day, so no way a guy that hungry could possibly fix all of hearthstone's balance issues all in his lonesome.
I dont think all classes need to be even in every release. It sucks (especially since Shaman and warrior are two of my favorites) but it is nice to see different class on the other side of the board. I see a ton of rogue now and a year ago, you never saw rogue.
Cards like Divine Favor should be nerfed before something like Fiery War Axe, I am ok with every class having maybe one "broken card" but you cannot start taking them from one class and keep them for others. I think the axe is a perfect example of this, all of the sudden it is a worse version of a hunter bow, how does that make sense for the warrior class?
Don't you think it's possible that the best decks for shaman and warrior are yet to be found. Usually it takes a while for someone to find a viable deck for the worst classes, but it almost always happens after the meta has settled.
It's not easy to balance a game with 9 classes. But it's not as hard as Blizzard makes it seem. Regular balance patches, like every other multiplayer game in the world have, would do wonders for the balance. But in this game that's harder to do because a lot of the problem cards are legendaries and epics which means huge dust refunds.
You know what I don't understand? Why are there even classes in the first place? How does it benefit the game at all? It only severely limits the possible deck types.
You know what I don't understand? Why are there even classes in the first place? How does it benefit the game at all? It only severely limits the possible deck types.
There's a simple answer. It "limits" the types of decks but allow for very powerful class cards that can serve different archetypes and create interesting interactions without having an extremely hard to control environment for developers to have to work around. Things like Coldarra Drake or Prophet Velen would never be created if they could be used alongside cards like Raza the Chained or Fireball. Also then all decks would look the same. And hero powers would be broken because a hunter hero power for a rogue using extra reach from druids cards like swipe would be ridiculous.
You know what I don't understand? Why are there even classes in the first place? How does it benefit the game at all? It only severely limits the possible deck types.
Blizzard balance team is lazy af, their way of "balancing" this game is making a class broken af to then make it thrash tier a couple expansions later and then just pass the baton for the op class, Priest was shit, shaman and warrior were gods, now priest is god and shaman and warrior are both borderline unplayable.
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The answer is no.
Think about, the only reason paladin is not dead with warrior and shaman is because only one card Call To Arms. a broken card for resources and tempo.
Why shaman was the Tier 0 and now is Tier trash? Tunnel Trogg, a broken 1 mana drop make overload cards sucks a lot less.
In conclusion, for a balanced meta we need only don't give any broken cards for any class like Raza + DK or Voidlord + Lackey or give broken cards for all classes.
Why don't do that? Why Blizzard think is a good idea 4 or 5 classes be Tier 1 and 4 or 5 classes be Tier trash?
That's how Hearthstone works.
The only time every class was playable with at least a Tier 2 deck was before Standard in the Post LoE - Pre WotOG meta.
Cards rotate out, so it's only natural for some classes that relied on a few cards for each deck to die out. Eventually though they'll get some broken cards and if some other OP cards from other classes rotate out and they'll shine again.
You also have the majority of Hearthstone players to whine about everything. Priest is bad ->Anduin, Raza-> OMG Priest is so broken.
Druid is broken with Combo ->nerf Force of Nature-> Druid is so gimmicky, can't survive the meta -> Jade Idol-> OMG Druid is so broken, I am sad I can't play any control decks.
There you go.
Think it's a way to keep the meta in control, to more easily predict what decks will be really strong. And this way, you can create a sort of artificial class rotation. Keeping the balance between half of the classes in each period is easier, no doubt, even if balancing all classes could be possible (I don't think it is, indeed). And in the long period, you keep some classes artificially out of the meta, or just out of the top tiers: most classes are still played in little tournaments even when they're not so strong in the ladder environment.
(You should try local tournaments if you didn't yet. Playing in this environments is often more funny than just grindin ladder, especially when lists are published to other participants before the tournament itself)
I started playing shadowverse recently and not disappointed at all. I still play HS as well, but it might be something worth looking into.
they also have a much more generous f2p model if that's your thing. You get 50 packs just for doing the tutorial (and you can re-roll those packs if you use a mobile device by deleting and starting again)
the game has a 40 card deck though and you can have 3 of every card (even legendaries) extremely fast paced though. there are control decks, but tempo and aggro is insane.
It's going to be impossible to get every class having a T1/T2 deck because the popularization of some classes and decks leads to the downfall of others. You really can't expect Blizz to be able to release cards and have them magically result in every single class having a T1/T2 deck. While some decks are obvious (Jade Druid, Raza Priest, Quest Mage), it took tons of refinement to piece together decks like Keleseth Tempo Rogue or Renolock to the point where they can be considered fully completed. There's no way Blizz can foresee exactly how every single deck is going to end up. Spell Hunter seemed pretty strong at the beginning of the expansion and Cubelock seemed to be way too good at a certain point, but the meta shifts and compensates for that. Blizz may have been planning for people to play an Overload/Ancestral Shaman deck, but the continued popularity of Raza Priest shuts that option down, even if you could make an optimal deck list for Shaman.
Now, could Blizz do some more nerfing and balance changes during expansions? Definitely. And I really think they should. So, on that end, maybe they're not the best at balancing. But you really can't expect them to foresee everything and plan out a perfect meta. That's ridiculous.
The only way to combat this is to have an extremely large card pool. Hearthstone doesn't have it. Even if you count the entirely non-viable cards it is still an extremely small card game. If each expansion had say a thousand cards, then you might see actual innovation but hearthstone is expensive enough as it is to get the full card library.
In short, you're looking for a different game. One which probably doesn't exist.
I dont think all classes need to be even in every release. It sucks (especially since Shaman and warrior are two of my favorites) but it is nice to see different class on the other side of the board. I see a ton of rogue now and a year ago, you never saw rogue.
Cards like Divine Favor should be nerfed before something like Fiery War Axe, I am ok with every class having maybe one "broken card" but you cannot start taking them from one class and keep them for others. I think the axe is a perfect example of this, all of the sudden it is a worse version of a hunter bow, how does that make sense for the warrior class?
Don't you think it's possible that the best decks for shaman and warrior are yet to be found. Usually it takes a while for someone to find a viable deck for the worst classes, but it almost always happens after the meta has settled.
It's not easy to balance a game with 9 classes. But it's not as hard as Blizzard makes it seem. Regular balance patches, like every other multiplayer game in the world have, would do wonders for the balance. But in this game that's harder to do because a lot of the problem cards are legendaries and epics which means huge dust refunds.
You know what I don't understand? Why are there even classes in the first place? How does it benefit the game at all? It only severely limits the possible deck types.
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
Blizzard balance team is lazy af, their way of "balancing" this game is making a class broken af to then make it thrash tier a couple expansions later and then just pass the baton for the op class, Priest was shit, shaman and warrior were gods, now priest is god and shaman and warrior are both borderline unplayable.