There's roughly a 10% difference between an almost average player and the best players in the world in terms of win rate (The previous sentence is incorrect, I admit... I mistakenly equated players' win rate at legend rank to players' win rate at starter ranks). There's a huge reason why this game is called "curvestone"/"luckstone"/"RNGstone"/etc. This game is ALL about whether or not you have the right specific card for a certain situations.
Now, I consider myself a pretty good player, so of course I won't deny that there'r definitely more than 1 or even 5 plays a player can make during almost every given turn, and they're all not equally good. BUT the difference between the best play and the worst play, in terms of whether or not it would win you the game, is not that big - because usually it comes down to one variable in this game, whether or not you have that certain card during that certain time - that's (almost) all there is to it, to this game.
In light of that, I think it's simply a joke for this game to have a serious competitive scene, is about 90% of the competitive scene games are simply determined by luck/RNG.
I hope that Blizzard will take notice to these facts and make this game less luck based, somehow. Here's an idea that could achieve that, although it's not very fun friendly:
During every draw phase, you get to choose between 4 random cards from your deck, and you draw the one you choose, the rest are "shuffled" into the deck. This will make hearthstone much more skill based, by obvious reasons, but, of course, it would be less fun. Just wanted to showcase an idea, however.
Edit:
To people who make it personal and attempt to say that it's just me whining about not being good at the game, I say, seriously? Is this what this forum has come to? Not being able to offer a single piece of criticism or dislike towards any aspect of the game? And if someone does, trolls just make it personal and act mean? I'm not offended by all means, just surprised is all. I didn't think comments here lacked that much quality (if you're offended, then you make my words right). Now can we please continue this discussion in a respectful manner?
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
A game being competitive has nothing to do with how high the skill cap is, it's about how much money it can make by being marketed as competitive. There would be a professional rock-paper-scissors league if enough people were willing to watch it.
A game being competitive has nothing to do with how high the skill cap is, it's about how much money it can make by being marketed as competitive. There would be a professional rock-paper-scissors league if enough people were willing to watch it.
im up for watching where to buy a rockcon 2017 ticket? :D
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...
That has no bearing on whether or not it's competitive.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
A game being competitive has nothing to do with how high the skill cap is, it's about how much money it can make by being marketed as competitive. There would be a professional rock-paper-scissors league if enough people were willing to watch it.
I guess that's true, no one can argue with that...
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Any game that has extremely high rng and random factors would be a joke competitively. Some rng is fine but when you start printing a myriad of random effects and infinite resource generation then you're just giving a huge middle finger to what could have been the competitive scene. I'll refrain from commenting on the casters which are quite abysmal and usually just antagonise each other rather than focus on the game.
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Experienced Deckbuilder, Legend Player, Wild Expert, TCG Veteran and Contributing Author toWildHS & Vicious Syndicate. Any and all support is greatly appreciated as it helps me make further quality content. 🐺 ➣Twitter ➣Decks ➣Patreon
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...
That has no bearing on whether or not it's competitive.
Yes it does, because you only have 1 month every season to hit top 100 legend to get points, and if you do it too slowly, you won't be able to even be competitive.
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...
That has no bearing on whether or not it's competitive.
Yes it does, because you only have 1 month every season to hit top 100 legend to get points, and if you do it too slowly, you won't be able to even be competitive.
You either have time to be competitive or you don't. Your lack of time doesn't mean the game isn't competitive. The fact that your results are determined by your skill (as one factor) means the game is competitive.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Most of the RNG cards are pretty much gone from the game, with the exception of the few discover cards, though those along most other random cards are mostly seen in mage. What sort of RNG are you complaining about, exactly?
Most of the RNG cards are pretty much gone from the game, with the exception of the few discover cards, though those along most other random cards are mostly seen in mage. What sort of RNG are you complaining about, exactly?
He probably just phrased it incorrectly and was actually referring to cards like Barnes and Keleseth which dictate a severe increase or decrease in winrate depending on whether they are played on curve or not.
Regardless though, Blizzard overdid it with the amount of discover effects printed.
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I think that the thing you're not considering is that a competitive game is simply competitive. There has to be some sort of ranking mode. You are not considering that a ranking system is the only requirement for a game to be competitive. Also, there is a pro league for Hearthstone, and for that to be the top level of competitive play is the most important requirement for a competitive game.
Look, the point of a game being competitive is whether a player can consistently make a living out of it or not, and people do perform consistently, last year, thijsHS won a second regional championship after he did so in 2015. Neirea has gone through to the top 4 of 2 playoffs this year. When kolento started competing again he immediately dominated competitive play. In global games, you had Croatia with a really underwhelming team and thus they got knocked out in the first round. Handsome guy won two regional championships in a row last year. Pavel won world championships, then another tournament and the playoffs, and he won playoffs again this summer. lifecoach and superjj stopped playing this game and went to gwent, and Germany got destroyed in HGG. Thijs also has a ridiculous amount of open cup wins back to back. coincidence? I THINK NOT. Point is that Hearthstone is a very skillful game, in other games the best teams also have a 50-60 percent win rate. Also, I looked up your name and you apparently haven't even hit legend. so "pretty good player" in your opinion, but not in the publics eye.
be honest with yourself, you are just salty because you can't hit legend because all of your opponents are apparently 'just lucky' while they are at the same rank as you. I fell into this mindset 2 once, and then I realized how stupid it is. Just get over it!
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
That's correct, but did you consider the time factor?...
That has no bearing on whether or not it's competitive.
Yes it does, because you only have 1 month every season to hit top 100 legend to get points, and if you do it too slowly, you won't be able to even be competitive.
sure, have you ever looked into the competitiv scene
Why do we always see the same faces over and over again in Top 64 or higher? Could it be there is a certain skill of deckbuilding, matchup strategy or mulligan that you just don't have?
I think you need skill and determination to become really competitiv and after that also a bit of luck in finding sponsors and winning critical matchups.
Hearthstone is a competitive game because you do compete vs other people and you can control it’s variables to gain an advantage, you can control even more of them the better you are.
WR is not really a good way to look at that, I mean is my 70% WR this month from Rank 22 Wild comparable with that of a legend Player? I am playing very weak players and that allows me to win more, the higher you go the higher the skill level of the competition and the better you have to be to maintain a positive WR.
Sure, there is certain luck factor in the game, a big one in some cases, but there is luck and circumstances in every competitive environment that the player can’t control.
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There's roughly a 10% difference between an almost average player and the best players in the world in terms of win rate (The previous sentence is incorrect, I admit... I mistakenly equated players' win rate at legend rank to players' win rate at starter ranks). There's a huge reason why this game is called "curvestone"/"luckstone"/"RNGstone"/etc. This game is ALL about whether or not you have the right specific card for a certain situations.
Now, I consider myself a pretty good player, so of course I won't deny that there'r definitely more than 1 or even 5 plays a player can make during almost every given turn, and they're all not equally good. BUT the difference between the best play and the worst play, in terms of whether or not it would win you the game, is not that big - because usually it comes down to one variable in this game, whether or not you have that certain card during that certain time - that's (almost) all there is to it, to this game.
In light of that, I think it's simply a joke for this game to have a serious competitive scene, is about 90% of the competitive scene games are simply determined by luck/RNG.
I hope that Blizzard will take notice to these facts and make this game less luck based, somehow. Here's an idea that could achieve that, although it's not very fun friendly:
During every draw phase, you get to choose between 4 random cards from your deck, and you draw the one you choose, the rest are "shuffled" into the deck. This will make hearthstone much more skill based, by obvious reasons, but, of course, it would be less fun. Just wanted to showcase an idea, however.
Edit:
To people who make it personal and attempt to say that it's just me whining about not being good at the game, I say, seriously? Is this what this forum has come to? Not being able to offer a single piece of criticism or dislike towards any aspect of the game? And if someone does, trolls just make it personal and act mean? I'm not offended by all means, just surprised is all. I didn't think comments here lacked that much quality (if you're offended, then you make my words right). Now can we please continue this discussion in a respectful manner?
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Even if that % is accurate, that's a huge difference. For example, a player at 41% wr MIGHT hit rank 5 at some point, whereas a player at 51% wr will always hit legend eventually.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
A game being competitive has nothing to do with how high the skill cap is, it's about how much money it can make by being marketed as competitive. There would be a professional rock-paper-scissors league if enough people were willing to watch it.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Any game that has extremely high rng and random factors would be a joke competitively. Some rng is fine but when you start printing a myriad of random effects and infinite resource generation then you're just giving a huge middle finger to what could have been the competitive scene. I'll refrain from commenting on the casters which are quite abysmal and usually just antagonise each other rather than focus on the game.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Not every game is made to be competitive.
Most of the RNG cards are pretty much gone from the game, with the exception of the few discover cards, though those along most other random cards are mostly seen in mage. What sort of RNG are you complaining about, exactly?
I think that the thing you're not considering is that a competitive game is simply competitive. There has to be some sort of ranking mode. You are not considering that a ranking system is the only requirement for a game to be competitive. Also, there is a pro league for Hearthstone, and for that to be the top level of competitive play is the most important requirement for a competitive game.
Look, the point of a game being competitive is whether a player can consistently make a living out of it or not, and people do perform consistently, last year, thijsHS won a second regional championship after he did so in 2015. Neirea has gone through to the top 4 of 2 playoffs this year. When kolento started competing again he immediately dominated competitive play. In global games, you had Croatia with a really underwhelming team and thus they got knocked out in the first round. Handsome guy won two regional championships in a row last year. Pavel won world championships, then another tournament and the playoffs, and he won playoffs again this summer. lifecoach and superjj stopped playing this game and went to gwent, and Germany got destroyed in HGG. Thijs also has a ridiculous amount of open cup wins back to back. coincidence? I THINK NOT. Point is that Hearthstone is a very skillful game, in other games the best teams also have a 50-60 percent win rate. Also, I looked up your name and you apparently haven't even hit legend. so "pretty good player" in your opinion, but not in the publics eye.
be honest with yourself, you are just salty because you can't hit legend because all of your opponents are apparently 'just lucky' while they are at the same rank as you. I fell into this mindset 2 once, and then I realized how stupid it is. Just get over it!
Don`t play/watch competitive Hearthstone, problem solved.
sure, have you ever looked into the competitiv scene
Why do we always see the same faces over and over again in Top 64 or higher? Could it be there is a certain skill of deckbuilding, matchup strategy or mulligan that you just don't have?
I think you need skill and determination to become really competitiv and after that also a bit of luck in finding sponsors and winning critical matchups.
If poker can be competitive, then I don't see why HS wouldn't be able to be.
Hearthstone is a competitive game because you do compete vs other people and you can control it’s variables to gain an advantage, you can control even more of them the better you are.
WR is not really a good way to look at that, I mean is my 70% WR this month from Rank 22 Wild comparable with that of a legend Player? I am playing very weak players and that allows me to win more, the higher you go the higher the skill level of the competition and the better you have to be to maintain a positive WR.
Sure, there is certain luck factor in the game, a big one in some cases, but there is luck and circumstances in every competitive environment that the player can’t control.