Since the Vicious Syndicate meta report post nerf has not been released, I created this thread to get the general experience other players are having on ladder. Having spoken to several legend players, and others around my current rank (10), there is a consensus that close to half of the matches are against priest, and more specifically Razakus priest. With the decline of jade druid they were supposed to see an uptick in winrate, but from my experience they are overpowered. The deck simply has too many answers, and the only response I am seeing from other players right now is "beat them before they draw answers." Basically it feels like a non-interactive deck. Blizzard always said they wanted more interaction in matches, but with the way Razakus plays, you are playing vs their draw. They have more answers than anyone in the game.
Also on average priest is supposed to have Raza on 5 and DK anduin on 8 only 48% of the time, but I am seeing numbers way above that. There are many decks I have no shot vs priest with, where at least vs other decks it seems the winrate is at least 40%. Considering in today's matches I faced priests in 5 out of 6 games, all Razakus, and yesterday 9 out of 20 matches were priest, with 8 being Razakus. Will Blizzard look to nerf some of the power of this deck? Or will they claim the winrate should even out based on draw? I tried the deck myself, and while not fun, was able to muster a ~70% winrate from 14-11. The deck plays itself, you draw answers or you don't. I don't think that is very fun to play against, and most other players I consult with agree. A meta is more fun when it is diverse.
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"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
OP, UMMMM....instead of using your small sample sizes to made broad (incorrect) conclusions, try actually checking some data. hsreplay says over the last 48 hours, it's actually a very balanced meta with priest actually having a winrate BELOW 50%. And my playing both with and against Priest confirms this...the deck is not AT ALL overpowered. Druids, hunters and shamans (and pirate warrior) all have a very good chance of beating Priest. The meta as it stands right now, is not great for Priest.
Priest is actually doing worse than before the patch went live, so.... no, if there is a problem, it is that the deck is now LESS prevalent than before.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Once again a priest player tries to insult me (what would Hearthpwn be without the "NOTHING IS OVERPOWERED QQ" crowd?) because of my small sample size. You realize I sub to kripp and in his chat there are many competitive ladder players? This isn't just rank 20 people. No one enjoys a non-diverse meta, and I think when VS report is released, we will all see that. Until then, keep telling yourself how balanced it is as they clear your board and pound your face with a free hero power.
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"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
Like said above: facts tells us that priest is NOT overpowered, and if you face too many priests, take a deck that counters it.
Are you stupid? Nothing counters it if they draw well. THAT is the issue. You are solely playing vs their draw, not on player interaction and skill. There is no two turns ahead, there is simply too much to play around, and if you try you will be punished.
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"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
In my opinion, the combo itself is way overpowered. The issue is, as you mentioned, that RNG on card draw "should" counter how OP the result is. And I think that the RNG aspect will probably prevent any nerf to it, unless it just suddenly becomes a massive problem to the meta.
I do think that Raza should have been "current hero power costs 0", just to make it a little more balanced. Having the free heals, AND then having the machine gun is a little much. And it would be a change that I don't think would alter the deck a lot, but might bring the win rate down a little if needed.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
In this thread: People citing FACTS based on ACTUAL DATA collected from the CURRENT META vs. people citing small sample sizes and thier own inability to design a counter deck if they are facing it a lot.
PS - Vicious Syndicate is not the only source of meta data out there. Try to keep up.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
And FACTS tells us that Priest is now actually WORSE THAN BEFORE!!! Fiery War Axe NEEDED a nerf because without it we would face a PIRATE WARRIOR META right now. But because Druid was nerfed, priest was nerfed too.
Yes, Druid was not a good matchup for priest, but now decks that were also surpressed by Druids now rise again, Hunter is a very good example for it. It also benefits that Warrior is now weaker because of the Fiery War Axe nerf.
Just because you believe that something is a fact doesn't make it a fact. Facts make Facts! And now many supressed aggro-decks that were simply worse than Pirate Warrior and got smashed by Spreading Plague can rise again! And Kazakus-Priest is very weak against aggro
In this thread: People citing FACTS based on ACTUAL DATA collected from the CURRENT META vs. people citing small sample sizes and thier own inability to design a counter deck if they are facing it a lot.
PS - Vicious Syndicate is not the only source of meta data out there. Try to keep up.
It is the most reliable, and you and any decent player should know that. I could start creating videos showing how many priests I face and you people who worship the class would still flame me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Voted no and I play mid hunter. Poor Highlander has the card they need to beat me in the deck but never seems to have it in hand, sniff, tear.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
In this thread: People citing FACTS based on ACTUAL DATA collected from the CURRENT META vs. people citing small sample sizes and thier own inability to design a counter deck if they are facing it a lot.
PS - Vicious Syndicate is not the only source of meta data out there. Try to keep up.
It is the most reliable, and you and any decent player should know that. I could start creating videos showing how many priests I face and you people who worship the class would still flame me.
LOL. You have no clue what you are talking about. "Most reliable". By what metric is it the "most reliable"??? It IS the most POPULAR. But popular does not equal RELIABLE.
Please note that I am not dissing VS in ANY way. I think it's a valid resource, just as hsreplay is.
As I said, VS is using THE SAME pool of data as hsreplay. That is a FACT. hsreply is real time, VS is over a time period. That is a FACT.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Voted no and I play mid hunter. Poor Highlander has the card they need to beat me in the deck but never seems to have it in hand, sniff, tear.
You sound like the only one to me lol, I play some sort of Aggro Hunter and I swing back and forth from rank 2-4 only because of the disgusting amount of priests I run into, and they regularly have Lash, dragonfire, priest of the feast to reno themselves etc. Also see Raza turn 5 and/or Kazakus turn 4 about 70% of the time. The reason why Priest supposedly has poor stats on the ladder is because people in rank 10-25 are probably piloting the deck poorly (which I find really hard to believe but ok) so they lose to all kind of aggro and midrange. In rank 5-Legend, based on personal experience (60-80 games a day), priest is top dog. To hell with stats guys, the big ranks are where the meta matters.
I could start creating videos showing how many priests I face and you people who worship the class would still flame me.
You realize the MAJOR problem with your statement is you are a sample size of 1. No... of course you don't realize that. You think your experience is everyone's.
You could face priest all day. Means nothing. Two days ago I faced a bunch of priest. Yesterday and today, I faced a bunch of Rogue and Shaman.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Voted no and I play mid hunter. Poor Highlander has the card they need to beat me in the deck but never seems to have it in hand, sniff, tear.
You sound like the only one to me lol, I play some sort of Aggro Hunter and I swing back and forth from rank 2-4 only because of the disgusting amount of priests I run into, and they regularly have Lash, dragonfire, priest of the feast to reno themselves etc. Also see Raza turn 5 and/or Kazakus turn 4 about 70% of the time. The reason why Priest supposedly has poor stats on the ladder is because people in rank 10-25 are probably piloting the deck poorly (which I find really hard to believe but ok) so they lose to all kind of aggro and midrange. In rank 5-Legend, based on personal experience (60-80 games a day), priest is top dog. To hell with stats guys, the big ranks are where the meta matters.
Also what they fail to realize is that since so many people at the shittier ranks are playing priest, and playing against themselves, it muddies the data. Hunter isn't a counter if they draw visions into spirit lash and have dragonfire, and priest of the feast to always heal, and odds are they have SOMETHING to stabilize. How people are winning vs priest with hunter I will never understand unless they are playing the world's most unlucky people. I had a top 100 legend player tell me that in his high legend matches yesterday, TWELVE straight priests had Raza on 5 and DK anduin on 8. The odds of that happening are mathematically impossible, yet it did. Again a deck that is unbeatable when it draws well, just well not even perfectly, and is non-interactive, IS NOT FUN OR HEALTHY FOR THE GAME!! Really wish the morons on here would understand that.
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"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
The odds of that happening are mathematically impossible, yet it did.
I still believe, and really I don't think anything could ever convince me otherwise, that this game is no where near as "random" as people would like it to be. If it were, statistically speaking, we all should be completely screwed on nearly every mulligan. How many times do you see a Pirate warrior draw First Mate? Or players draw perfect curve openings? I would estimate that it happens in close to 50% of all matches, yet statistically speaking, it should almost never happen.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
The odds of that happening are mathematically impossible, yet it did.
I still believe, and really I don't think anything could ever convince me otherwise, that this game is no where near as "random" as people would like it to be. If it were, statistically speaking, we all should be completely screwed on nearly every mulligan. How many times do you see a Pirate warrior draw First Mate? Or players draw perfect curve openings? I would estimate that it happens in close to 50% of all matches, yet statistically speaking, it should almost never happen.
Pretty sure that's still confirmation bias. BUT, who knows! Maybe Blizzard has a selected number of people to always draw the right cards at the right time? Maybe it's correlated with how much they've spent on the game, even.
Turns out, hilariously enough, drawing Raza turn 5 after aggressively mulliganing for it is about 40%, or close to 50% of all matches. (Same with First Mate, if you have two copies in the deck). Higher if you have ANY draw between turns 1 and 5. Lolololol.
Since the Vicious Syndicate meta report post nerf has not been released, I created this thread to get the general experience other players are having on ladder. Having spoken to several legend players, and others around my current rank (10), there is a consensus that close to half of the matches are against priest, and more specifically Razakus priest. With the decline of jade druid they were supposed to see an uptick in winrate, but from my experience they are overpowered. The deck simply has too many answers, and the only response I am seeing from other players right now is "beat them before they draw answers." Basically it feels like a non-interactive deck. Blizzard always said they wanted more interaction in matches, but with the way Razakus plays, you are playing vs their draw. They have more answers than anyone in the game.
Also on average priest is supposed to have Raza on 5 and DK anduin on 8 only 48% of the time, but I am seeing numbers way above that. There are many decks I have no shot vs priest with, where at least vs other decks it seems the winrate is at least 40%. Considering in today's matches I faced priests in 5 out of 6 games, all Razakus, and yesterday 9 out of 20 matches were priest, with 8 being Razakus. Will Blizzard look to nerf some of the power of this deck? Or will they claim the winrate should even out based on draw? I tried the deck myself, and while not fun, was able to muster a ~70% winrate from 14-11. The deck plays itself, you draw answers or you don't. I don't think that is very fun to play against, and most other players I consult with agree. A meta is more fun when it is diverse.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
OP, UMMMM....instead of using your small sample sizes to made broad (incorrect) conclusions, try actually checking some data. hsreplay says over the last 48 hours, it's actually a very balanced meta with priest actually having a winrate BELOW 50%. And my playing both with and against Priest confirms this...the deck is not AT ALL overpowered. Druids, hunters and shamans (and pirate warrior) all have a very good chance of beating Priest. The meta as it stands right now, is not great for Priest.
Priest is actually doing worse than before the patch went live, so.... no, if there is a problem, it is that the deck is now LESS prevalent than before.
Whoever voted ''no'' here is either a Priest player or trolling. Razakus has a good matchup against everything (and I mean it) in the meta except Quest Mage. The deck has answers to everything: Aggro, Midrange, other Control decks, starvation in Africa and the situation between North Korea and USA. Multiple cards in that deck need a nerf, not Fiery War Axe or Hex lmao.
Like said above: facts tells us that priest is NOT overpowered, and if you face too many priests, take a deck that counters it.
Once again a priest player tries to insult me (what would Hearthpwn be without the "NOTHING IS OVERPOWERED QQ" crowd?) because of my small sample size. You realize I sub to kripp and in his chat there are many competitive ladder players? This isn't just rank 20 people. No one enjoys a non-diverse meta, and I think when VS report is released, we will all see that. Until then, keep telling yourself how balanced it is as they clear your board and pound your face with a free hero power.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
In my opinion, the combo itself is way overpowered. The issue is, as you mentioned, that RNG on card draw "should" counter how OP the result is. And I think that the RNG aspect will probably prevent any nerf to it, unless it just suddenly becomes a massive problem to the meta.
I do think that Raza should have been "current hero power costs 0", just to make it a little more balanced. Having the free heals, AND then having the machine gun is a little much. And it would be a change that I don't think would alter the deck a lot, but might bring the win rate down a little if needed.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
In this thread: People citing FACTS based on ACTUAL DATA collected from the CURRENT META vs. people citing small sample sizes and thier own inability to design a counter deck if they are facing it a lot.
PS - Vicious Syndicate is not the only source of meta data out there. Try to keep up.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
"Blizzard is just a small indie game company" -Mathmachine
I still believe, and really I don't think anything could ever convince me otherwise, that this game is no where near as "random" as people would like it to be. If it were, statistically speaking, we all should be completely screwed on nearly every mulligan. How many times do you see a Pirate warrior draw First Mate? Or players draw perfect curve openings? I would estimate that it happens in close to 50% of all matches, yet statistically speaking, it should almost never happen.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile