Warlock has hellfire or demonfire, siphon soul, twisting nether
Shaman has devolve, elemental destruction or lightning storm, hex
Warrior has ravaging ghoul, sleep with the fishes, brawl, execute
Mage has just almost every spell it has
Druid has very bad board clears (still better than hunter tho) but ok removal but they have jades so
Rogue is a class that has so much tempo so often it doesnt need board clears cause it can sap and prep vanish
Hunter has explosive trap which is nice but enemy can play around it, unleash is bad, hunters mark is bad cause you need another minion with it which most of the time wont be a 1/1. deadly shot is ok but its still random, dk comes at turn 6 so does nothing againts big health or aggro, freezing trap is good but again the enemy can play around it
Also to add here that im playing a reno nzoth dk hunter in wild and i just get stomped by people who have any sort of board. I did beat a jade druid but got lucky in that game
Finally I think hunter has the tools for a more controllish game given the value out of the dk hero power but it lacks either removal or heals. Before my idea of this hunter deck I played a lot of highlander priest with quest, kazakus, reno, nzoth, raza and dk with some other op stuff and i gotta say this doesnt feel nearly as powerful as that. I can have a good curve and still lose cause i have no removal
It seems they wanted hunter to be a different kind of play style, where they would use synergies and death rattles to take and keep the board. The problem is the, with the exception of Hynea, the synergies come too take for you to conceivably take back the board without a board clear. And all of the death rattles either start as tokens or give you tokens rather than giving you a decent body before and after. Which can be fine if the synergies line up, but more often than not it just means the second half of your minions just gets cleaned up with board clears.
Basically hunter either needs the common tools every other class has (board clears and removal), or a better early game, something more like murloc paladin.
i think the biggest thing hunter is lacking is draw. hunter secrets are weird and are mostly just good for forcing suboptimal plays or buying some time, as it's often easy to read what is on the board. i find the minion summoning ones are particularly weak.
if you're in wild, toxic arrow + unstable ghoul is a hard board clear that can only be thwarted w/ spellbreaker
It seems they wanted hunter to be a different kind of play style, where they would use synergies and death rattles to take and keep the board. The problem is the, with the exception of Hynea, the synergies come too take for you to conceivably take back the board without a board clear. And all of the death rattles either start as tokens or give you tokens rather than giving you a decent body before and after. Which can be fine if the synergies line up, but more often than not it just means the second half of your minions just gets cleaned up with board clears.
Basically hunter either needs the common tools every other class has (board clears and removal), or a better early game, something more like murloc paladin.
Blizzard has stated that they don't want Hunter early game better than it is now because it tends to wreck noob ranks (18+). Hunter's win rate at those ranks is really high and they have trouble making Hunter better within their design constraints without making the problem worse.
I think that draw in hunter would be utterly broken, it should be a highmana slow card for control use only.
Hunter has very strong cards that synergize with his Hero power, at low ranks it's easily the best deck. More than draw I would give hunter another good weapon or even more sticky minions.
For questions about what happens when hunter has super efficient draws see the meta of pre nerf buzzard.
The DK is great for board clear and pseudo draw. Really gave hunter a much, much more viable late game. Don't devalue UTH for board clear as well. Depending on the meta it doesn't hurt to toss in Hunter's Mark for spot removal, especially with how easy it is for hunters to load up on tokens.
I would like to see a little more survivability for hunters. They are terrible at staving off death if they get low. Maybe some efficient lifesteal minions would work.
It seems they wanted hunter to be a different kind of play style, where they would use synergies and death rattles to take and keep the board. The problem is the, with the exception of Hynea, the synergies come too take for you to conceivably take back the board without a board clear. And all of the death rattles either start as tokens or give you tokens rather than giving you a decent body before and after. Which can be fine if the synergies line up, but more often than not it just means the second half of your minions just gets cleaned up with board clears.
Basically hunter either needs the common tools every other class has (board clears and removal), or a better early game, something more like murloc paladin.
Blizzard has stated that they don't want Hunter early game better than it is now because it tends to wreck noob ranks (18+). Hunter's win rate at those ranks is really high and they have trouble making Hunter better within their design constraints without making the problem worse.
Yup
this
catering to new players at the sacrifice of game balance... that's Blizzard
The problem with hunter is that the deck is running almost the same cards from various expansions ago. They could give us more ways to tweak it a little and adapt to different matchups. The only thing I don't like about hunter is that it feels like the deck it's always the same and it's strengh depends only on the meta, not the decklist itself.
While I agree with many things folks have said in response to this thread, and I can even agree that Hunters should maybe have some additional type of removal, I have to disagree overall with the OP's post. He's just cherry picking to make an argument.
Paladin - their removal is a combo of two cards, or, if you have board presence, a way to trade efficiently. Consecration on its own is weak removal, and really no different than Explosive Trap. Combined yes, it is effective - at turn 6 or later (5 with coin and luck).
Shaman - devolve is not really board clear or removal. You still leave them with minons on board, albeit hopefully worse ones than they started with, but no guarantee.
Warrior - Ravaging Ghoul isn't really board clear either, unless you set it up first or your opponent has a bunch of 1 health minons. It's technically a worse clear than Explosive Trap. Brawl is also a coin flip. It's a great board clear when there are a lot of minons out. It's useless when your opponent is bashing your face with one minon.
Mage - well, that's what they are supposed to do. They're mages. :P
Druid - They actually have a lot. Naturalize, Swipe, Wrath, Mulch, Poison Seeds, Starfall, Recycle, and of course, Ultimate Infestation.
Rogue - They have much better than Sap and Vanish, but still... Vanish and Fan of Knives are about their only AOE "removal."
Hunters though, are not as dire as you make it out to be. Explosive trap is on par with Consecration, Volcanic Potion, and Holy Nova, and better than Ravaging Ghoul (since you listed it). Steamwheedle Sniper gives your hero power single target removal capability. Deadly shot is more powerful than Brawl in some situations, and way worse in others. Dreadscale is on par with Ravaging Ghoul. Exploding Bloatbat is a card. Explosive Shot is nice. Unleash the Hounds can be devastating if played correctly, or it can be near useless. Adicmaw is a card. The DK is AOE removal.
My point is not that Hunters have as much or better removal than other classes - it's that you cherry picked cards as a way to say Hunter needs removal, when that's not quite accurate.
Nah. I like how you completely lie about rogue having any efficient board clears and try to by pass it almost entirely by saying "tempo bro!" Just to push your bullshit propaganda about hunter being treated unfairly. Hunter has many psuedo board clears, more than paladin and rogue. Get over it. You have Poison Abom, you have rexxar, you have explosive, you have unleash, you have bloating bat. Even more options in wild. But vanish though, give me a fucking break.
They have to be careful giving removal or aoe spell to Hunter, or else, Aggro/Midrange Hunter will become unstoppable by having both early game and board control.
Their board clear is their minions. The biggest problem with Huntard is lack of card draw. You play SO many low cost minions then you run out of steam and have no cards if you don't win by turn 6-7.
Their board clear is their minions. The biggest problem with Huntard is lack of card draw. You play SO many low cost minions then you run out of steam and have no cards if you don't win by turn 6-7.
If you can get DK out by 6 or 7, the build a beasts can be extremely effective ... assuming you get good choices to stitch together. But, that is also a point of contention for playing a Hunter ... when should you give up your guaranteed 2 dmg per turn?
Everyone loves to give Hunters shit about "just go face" ... and admittedly, it is somewhat true. But trying to play a hunter deck to any high rank probably takes as much or more skill than any other deck out there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
They got two this expansion, DK and Exploding Bloatbat. With play dead it is a 5 mana 2 damage board clear With potential for 4 dmg when the minion dies
They got two this expansion, DK and Exploding Bloatbat. With play dead it is a 5 mana 2 damage board clear With potential for 4 dmg when the minion dies
Requiring two cards is the biggest downfall of the clear.
It's the same reason as to why Excavating Evil was so much more viable than Auchenai Soulpriest and Circle of Healing.
Every other class has that.
Paladin has consecration, equality,
Warlock has hellfire or demonfire, siphon soul, twisting nether
Shaman has devolve, elemental destruction or lightning storm, hex
Warrior has ravaging ghoul, sleep with the fishes, brawl, execute
Mage has just almost every spell it has
Druid has very bad board clears (still better than hunter tho) but ok removal but they have jades so
Rogue is a class that has so much tempo so often it doesnt need board clears cause it can sap and prep vanish
Hunter has explosive trap which is nice but enemy can play around it, unleash is bad, hunters mark is bad cause you need another minion with it which most of the time wont be a 1/1. deadly shot is ok but its still random, dk comes at turn 6 so does nothing againts big health or aggro, freezing trap is good but again the enemy can play around it
Also to add here that im playing a reno nzoth dk hunter in wild and i just get stomped by people who have any sort of board. I did beat a jade druid but got lucky in that game
Finally I think hunter has the tools for a more controllish game given the value out of the dk hero power but it lacks either removal or heals. Before my idea of this hunter deck I played a lot of highlander priest with quest, kazakus, reno, nzoth, raza and dk with some other op stuff and i gotta say this doesnt feel nearly as powerful as that. I can have a good curve and still lose cause i have no removal
Me? Gongaga.
I agree.
It seems they wanted hunter to be a different kind of play style, where they would use synergies and death rattles to take and keep the board. The problem is the, with the exception of Hynea, the synergies come too take for you to conceivably take back the board without a board clear. And all of the death rattles either start as tokens or give you tokens rather than giving you a decent body before and after. Which can be fine if the synergies line up, but more often than not it just means the second half of your minions just gets cleaned up with board clears.
Basically hunter either needs the common tools every other class has (board clears and removal), or a better early game, something more like murloc paladin.
i think the biggest thing hunter is lacking is draw. hunter secrets are weird and are mostly just good for forcing suboptimal plays or buying some time, as it's often easy to read what is on the board. i find the minion summoning ones are particularly weak.
if you're in wild, toxic arrow + unstable ghoul is a hard board clear that can only be thwarted w/ spellbreaker
I think that draw in hunter would be utterly broken, it should be a highmana slow card for control use only.
Hunter has very strong cards that synergize with his Hero power, at low ranks it's easily the best deck. More than draw I would give hunter another good weapon or even more sticky minions.
Top deck is cheat
For questions about what happens when hunter has super efficient draws see the meta of pre nerf buzzard.
The DK is great for board clear and pseudo draw. Really gave hunter a much, much more viable late game. Don't devalue UTH for board clear as well. Depending on the meta it doesn't hurt to toss in Hunter's Mark for spot removal, especially with how easy it is for hunters to load up on tokens.
I would like to see a little more survivability for hunters. They are terrible at staving off death if they get low. Maybe some efficient lifesteal minions would work.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
Hunter has a rank 1 legend decklist, we don't need anything my dude.
The problem with hunter is that the deck is running almost the same cards from various expansions ago. They could give us more ways to tweak it a little and adapt to different matchups. The only thing I don't like about hunter is that it feels like the deck it's always the same and it's strengh depends only on the meta, not the decklist itself.
Top deck is cheat
While I agree with many things folks have said in response to this thread, and I can even agree that Hunters should maybe have some additional type of removal, I have to disagree overall with the OP's post. He's just cherry picking to make an argument.
Paladin - their removal is a combo of two cards, or, if you have board presence, a way to trade efficiently. Consecration on its own is weak removal, and really no different than Explosive Trap. Combined yes, it is effective - at turn 6 or later (5 with coin and luck).
Shaman - devolve is not really board clear or removal. You still leave them with minons on board, albeit hopefully worse ones than they started with, but no guarantee.
Warrior - Ravaging Ghoul isn't really board clear either, unless you set it up first or your opponent has a bunch of 1 health minons. It's technically a worse clear than Explosive Trap. Brawl is also a coin flip. It's a great board clear when there are a lot of minons out. It's useless when your opponent is bashing your face with one minon.
Mage - well, that's what they are supposed to do. They're mages. :P
Druid - They actually have a lot. Naturalize, Swipe, Wrath, Mulch, Poison Seeds, Starfall, Recycle, and of course, Ultimate Infestation.
Rogue - They have much better than Sap and Vanish, but still... Vanish and Fan of Knives are about their only AOE "removal."
Hunters though, are not as dire as you make it out to be. Explosive trap is on par with Consecration, Volcanic Potion, and Holy Nova, and better than Ravaging Ghoul (since you listed it). Steamwheedle Sniper gives your hero power single target removal capability. Deadly shot is more powerful than Brawl in some situations, and way worse in others. Dreadscale is on par with Ravaging Ghoul. Exploding Bloatbat is a card. Explosive Shot is nice. Unleash the Hounds can be devastating if played correctly, or it can be near useless. Adicmaw is a card. The DK is AOE removal.
My point is not that Hunters have as much or better removal than other classes - it's that you cherry picked cards as a way to say Hunter needs removal, when that's not quite accurate.
Nah. I like how you completely lie about rogue having any efficient board clears and try to by pass it almost entirely by saying "tempo bro!" Just to push your bullshit propaganda about hunter being treated unfairly. Hunter has many psuedo board clears, more than paladin and rogue. Get over it. You have Poison Abom, you have rexxar, you have explosive, you have unleash, you have bloating bat. Even more options in wild. But vanish though, give me a fucking break.
That's a bad idea for the same reason giving druid spreading plague was a bad idea
Fuck cubelock
They have to be careful giving removal or aoe spell to Hunter, or else, Aggro/Midrange Hunter will become unstoppable by having both early game and board control.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Their board clear is their minions. The biggest problem with Huntard is lack of card draw. You play SO many low cost minions then you run out of steam and have no cards if you don't win by turn 6-7.
Everyone loves to give Hunters shit about "just go face" ... and admittedly, it is somewhat true. But trying to play a hunter deck to any high rank probably takes as much or more skill than any other deck out there.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
They got two this expansion, DK and Exploding Bloatbat. With play dead it is a 5 mana 2 damage board clear With potential for 4 dmg when the minion dies
When life gives you lemons, trade'em for limes and get some Coronas!
If we had a board clear we would absolutely slaughter you. Be careful what you ask for, devs might read it.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.