Mage quest decks has much larger skillcap compared to old freeze and it is very difficult to pilot. It is strong in good hands, but even taunt-war can beat it quite often. So this quest is great in term of possibilities it can give in case your skill is high.
Rogue quest is actually easy to play and is just brainless, I'm sure it should be nerfed to 5 creatures to play. But for the last 2 days ladder is swarmed with hunters and pirate warriors, so rogues become to play much rear. And that is just a great news :)
Rogue decks need to play subpar cards and lose tempo bouncing that 1 drop in the hand every single time, then you have to play a 5 mana do nothing because they never get a board pre-Crystal Core and only then can they hit the face. You can even pull the bouncing minion with rat and delay the quest.
Every midrange and faster deck wrecks them, even my Secret mage never lost a game vs rogues, they have 0 tempo pre core.
As for mage? If it's exodia mage you just Dirty Rat and win the game on the spot, vs giant mage you taunt and win the game or take it to the next level, dirty rat.
Actually rat works vs every minion based quest, vs every combo deck and vs every aggro deck.
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The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
Open the Waygate isn't quite as OP as you're being lead to believe. I've had it used against me, but losing a turn doesn't always stop me from coming out on top. I'd say the quest is 50/50 on the success rate.
As for The Caverns Below, it's pretty OP still, IMO. Once Crystal Core is played, I'd say you have 2-4 turns max to kill off the rogue. Nothing overly insane, but insane nonetheless.
You are aware that Anyfin paladin needed to draw ALL the murlocs, THEN play one anifin which DOES NOT kill you, then play the other one to hopefully win if the paladin didn't already die. Also any transform effect or priest-steal effect did the trick to destroy the deck, not to mention any decent taunt placed at the right time, and not to mention any good aggro deck. But sure, anyifin paladin was problematic for the game, whatever you think bro
This, and even forgot the additional requirement that the murlocs have to DIE. In the Year of the Shaman, when 1/3 of the decks you faced were running hex and/or devolve, and against freeze and reno mage, you'd be lucky if both warleaders actually died. There's a reason Anyfin decks were never more than tier 2-3.
We just need to start a petition to move Nerub'ar Weblord to standard. One of those suckers down T2 and rogue can't do anything except try to kill it with spells. I have little respect for people who play that deck as it's just way too easy to pull off the quest. Mage on the other hand takes a ton of thought and careful planning (as well as some RNG in your pulls) when you're playing against aggro. I haven't lost against mage yet but I also don't play the slow-ass decks it counters. Even then, you can throw in Dirty Rat as it's a decent enough card against all archetypes.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, this was my biggest beef with blizz lately. The game becomes less creative when the only viable option is a predestined deck archetype (Dragon, or jade for example) and neutralizes the players ability to win with rng, rather than tactics and creativity which were driving factors before. I think Un'Goro in general is definitely a step in a better dirction, but they still shot themselves in the foot by releasing cars with Crystal Core and specifically Time Warp, which limit interactivity with the opponent.
Here's the thing about quest rogue, to start, playing ANY minion puts a charge on the quest, which when you only need 4 minions, is incredibly brutal considering how many low cost minions go into quest rogue (QR). But that's really my only problem with QR, most of the time it's just a matter of scaring them or making them have to waste time on control until like 6 mana, and most classes have a way of dealing with stuff at 6 mana.
Quest mage (QM) however, has me always frustrated. I'm probably not that lucky but the QM's I play against get all their draw early, then have a smattering of frost bolts, frost novas, shatters, and seem to get frost novas a lot when they use discover cards. I've beaten maybe 4 out of the 18 I've played against because of this. I do agree that QM decks are not very interactive, for the most part it's just a matter of hoping they mess up early or simply don't get one of their 7 different freeze spells (I'm counting freezing potion too because you can find that from random mage discovers). It feels like they have a whole lot more stall than they need for their quest, which is very much an all in, one turn endeavor. It's weakness is apparent in that it gets beat by aggro decks if it cannot field wipe or stall out, but with a mostly spell deck with few minions and maybe a Yogg it's still hard to play against and have any reliable counterplay. Although Dirty Rat can be a good way to pull the little 3/2s out, it often ends up not helping the end because of the massive amount of stall mages get.
Overall I don't mind either quest, however I loathe the ease with which one can complete the rogue quest.
The mage quest is fine, the questionable card is and always has been Ice Block, but it's also a class defining, iconic card, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it's nerfing. It's certainly counterable.
I'm still not even convinced the Rogue quest deck is that good - sure it can blow you out with a godhand, but that's true of any of the fast decks - aggro hunter, warrior, zoo etc. It can feel really unfair, I'll give you that, but then the next time you play one they're struggling to combo at turn 8 and it's over as they've done nothing with their weak 1 and 2 mana minions and even your average slow ass deck is already miles ahead.
The mage quest is fine, the questionable card is and always has been Ice Block, but it's also a class defining, iconic card, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it's nerfing. It's certainly counterable.
I'm still not even convinced the Rogue quest deck is that good - sure it can blow you out with a godhand, but that's true of any of the fast decks - aggro hunter, warrior, zoo etc. It can feel really unfair, I'll give you that, but then the next time you play one they're struggling to combo at turn 8 and it's over as they've done nothing with their weak 1 and 2 mana minions and even your average slow ass deck is already miles ahead.
Perhaps the mage quest is technically "fine" but the rest of the mage cards and the fact that they almost always draw multiple copies of them is what makes the deck extremely OP and impossible to play against. The game should stay with the rule that you can only play TWO of any card in one game no matter what. If you have discover cards or discover spells then they should NEVER pull a spell or minion for matter that has been played or drawn twice already. That's the fix that is desperately needed. It'd be easy to implement too. Two cock sucking ice blocks and 4 -5 total board freezes is plenty fucking enough. It makes the game pure solitaire and is 100% uninteresting and stupid. So fuck random spell drawing cards. Make them random but make them EXCLUDE cards that have maxed out at two copies. Period. Enough is enough with this unlimited freeze and stall shitfest. And fuck ice block too.
As for playing around ice block....how? Wait, I know, eater of fucking Secrets. Yeah, RIGHT. Horrible card that is total dead weight against 6-7 other classes, is a lousy body if it doesn't "eat" enough, and wrecks your deck synergy for you having to include itfor ONE stupid class. The game just doesn't work when you have to run awful tech cards just to maybe counter some damned OP quest deck. Terrible, terrible, terrible game design.
Just make it so you can NEVER play more or draw more than two of any card and the problem goes away. It's fair and reasonable.
The mage quest is fine, the questionable card is and always has been Ice Block, but it's also a class defining, iconic card, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it's nerfing. It's certainly counterable.
I'm still not even convinced the Rogue quest deck is that good - sure it can blow you out with a godhand, but that's true of any of the fast decks - aggro hunter, warrior, zoo etc. It can feel really unfair, I'll give you that, but then the next time you play one they're struggling to combo at turn 8 and it's over as they've done nothing with their weak 1 and 2 mana minions and even your average slow ass deck is already miles ahead.
Perhaps the mage quest is technically "fine" but the rest of the mage cards and the fact that they almost always draw multiple copies of them is what makes the deck extremely OP and impossible to play against. The game should stay with the rule that you can only play TWO of any card in one game no matter what. If you have discover cards or discover spells then they should NEVER pull a spell or minion for matter that has been played or drawn twice already. That's the fix that is desperately needed. It'd be easy to implement too. Two cock sucking ice blocks and 4 -5 total board freezes is plenty fucking enough. It makes the game pure solitaire and is 100% uninteresting and stupid. So fuck random spell drawing cards. Make them random but make them EXCLUDE cards that have maxed out at two copies. Period. Enough is enough with this unlimited freeze and stall shitfest. And fuck ice block too.
As for playing around ice block....how? Wait, I know, eater of fucking Secrets. Yeah, RIGHT. Horrible card that is total dead weight against 6-7 other classes, is a lousy body if it doesn't "eat" enough, and wrecks your deck synergy for you having to include itfor ONE stupid class. The game just doesn't work when you have to run awful tech cards just to maybe counter some damned OP quest deck. Terrible, terrible, terrible game design.
Just make it so you can NEVER play more or draw more than two of any card and the problem goes away. It's fair and reasonable.
I was referring more to Flare, I've seen a quite a few mid range hunters running it last few days. You might say that's only one class card, but it doesn't take many to have a tangible effect on the meta and shift some people away from decks like secret and burst mage, and some effect on quest mage...all solid popular archetypes right now that rely heavily on ice block.
The mage quest is fine, the questionable card is and always has been Ice Block, but it's also a class defining, iconic card, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it's nerfing. It's certainly counterable.
I'm still not even convinced the Rogue quest deck is that good - sure it can blow you out with a godhand, but that's true of any of the fast decks - aggro hunter, warrior, zoo etc. It can feel really unfair, I'll give you that, but then the next time you play one they're struggling to combo at turn 8 and it's over as they've done nothing with their weak 1 and 2 mana minions and even your average slow ass deck is already miles ahead.
Perhaps the mage quest is technically "fine" but the rest of the mage cards and the fact that they almost always draw multiple copies of them is what makes the deck extremely OP and impossible to play against. The game should stay with the rule that you can only play TWO of any card in one game no matter what. If you have discover cards or discover spells then they should NEVER pull a spell or minion for matter that has been played or drawn twice already. That's the fix that is desperately needed. It'd be easy to implement too. Two cock sucking ice blocks and 4 -5 total board freezes is plenty fucking enough. It makes the game pure solitaire and is 100% uninteresting and stupid. So fuck random spell drawing cards. Make them random but make them EXCLUDE cards that have maxed out at two copies. Period. Enough is enough with this unlimited freeze and stall shitfest. And fuck ice block too.
As for playing around ice block....how? Wait, I know, eater of fucking Secrets. Yeah, RIGHT. Horrible card that is total dead weight against 6-7 other classes, is a lousy body if it doesn't "eat" enough, and wrecks your deck synergy for you having to include itfor ONE stupid class. The game just doesn't work when you have to run awful tech cards just to maybe counter some damned OP quest deck. Terrible, terrible, terrible game design.
Just make it so you can NEVER play more or draw more than two of any card and the problem goes away. It's fair and reasonable.
I was referring more to Flare, I've seen a quite a few mid range hunters running it last few days. You might say that's only one class card, but it doesn't take many to have a tangible effect on the meta and shift some people away from decks like secret and burst mage, and some effect on quest mage...all solid popular archetypes right now that rely heavily on ice block.
Now Flare is a different ballgame - its a decent card since its no too costly, removes stealth, kills all secrets and draws a card! THATS what a good tech card ought to be! Multiple uses & not overcosted. I like Hunter and when I get around to playing it again this meta Ill use one Flare in my deck for sure. :)
Mage quest decks has much larger skillcap compared to old freeze and it is very difficult to pilot. It is strong in good hands, but even taunt-war can beat it quite often. So this quest is great in term of possibilities it can give in case your skill is high.
Rogue quest is actually easy to play and is just brainless, I'm sure it should be nerfed to 5 creatures to play. But for the last 2 days ladder is swarmed with hunters and pirate warriors, so rogues become to play much rear. And that is just a great news :)
LUL-ing hard at all the combo deck haters.
Rogue decks need to play subpar cards and lose tempo bouncing that 1 drop in the hand every single time, then you have to play a 5 mana do nothing because they never get a board pre-Crystal Core and only then can they hit the face. You can even pull the bouncing minion with rat and delay the quest.
Every midrange and faster deck wrecks them, even my Secret mage never lost a game vs rogues, they have 0 tempo pre core.
As for mage? If it's exodia mage you just Dirty Rat and win the game on the spot, vs giant mage you taunt and win the game or take it to the next level, dirty rat.
Actually rat works vs every minion based quest, vs every combo deck and vs every aggro deck.
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
Open the Waygate isn't quite as OP as you're being lead to believe. I've had it used against me, but losing a turn doesn't always stop me from coming out on top. I'd say the quest is 50/50 on the success rate.
As for The Caverns Below, it's pretty OP still, IMO. Once Crystal Core is played, I'd say you have 2-4 turns max to kill off the rogue. Nothing overly insane, but insane nonetheless.
We just need to start a petition to move Nerub'ar Weblord to standard. One of those suckers down T2 and rogue can't do anything except try to kill it with spells. I have little respect for people who play that deck as it's just way too easy to pull off the quest. Mage on the other hand takes a ton of thought and careful planning (as well as some RNG in your pulls) when you're playing against aggro. I haven't lost against mage yet but I also don't play the slow-ass decks it counters. Even then, you can throw in Dirty Rat as it's a decent enough card against all archetypes.
I don't even have a problem with combo decks. The Rogue quest is just super toxic. It happens way way too early in the game and is super unhealthy.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, this was my biggest beef with blizz lately. The game becomes less creative when the only viable option is a predestined deck archetype (Dragon, or jade for example) and neutralizes the players ability to win with rng, rather than tactics and creativity which were driving factors before. I think Un'Goro in general is definitely a step in a better dirction, but they still shot themselves in the foot by releasing cars with Crystal Core and specifically Time Warp, which limit interactivity with the opponent.
Here's the thing about quest rogue, to start, playing ANY minion puts a charge on the quest, which when you only need 4 minions, is incredibly brutal considering how many low cost minions go into quest rogue (QR). But that's really my only problem with QR, most of the time it's just a matter of scaring them or making them have to waste time on control until like 6 mana, and most classes have a way of dealing with stuff at 6 mana.
Quest mage (QM) however, has me always frustrated. I'm probably not that lucky but the QM's I play against get all their draw early, then have a smattering of frost bolts, frost novas, shatters, and seem to get frost novas a lot when they use discover cards. I've beaten maybe 4 out of the 18 I've played against because of this. I do agree that QM decks are not very interactive, for the most part it's just a matter of hoping they mess up early or simply don't get one of their 7 different freeze spells (I'm counting freezing potion too because you can find that from random mage discovers). It feels like they have a whole lot more stall than they need for their quest, which is very much an all in, one turn endeavor. It's weakness is apparent in that it gets beat by aggro decks if it cannot field wipe or stall out, but with a mostly spell deck with few minions and maybe a Yogg it's still hard to play against and have any reliable counterplay. Although Dirty Rat can be a good way to pull the little 3/2s out, it often ends up not helping the end because of the massive amount of stall mages get.
Overall I don't mind either quest, however I loathe the ease with which one can complete the rogue quest.
The caverns below has to be the most fucking broken idea ever.
The mage quest is fine, the questionable card is and always has been Ice Block, but it's also a class defining, iconic card, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it's nerfing. It's certainly counterable.
I'm still not even convinced the Rogue quest deck is that good - sure it can blow you out with a godhand, but that's true of any of the fast decks - aggro hunter, warrior, zoo etc. It can feel really unfair, I'll give you that, but then the next time you play one they're struggling to combo at turn 8 and it's over as they've done nothing with their weak 1 and 2 mana minions and even your average slow ass deck is already miles ahead.
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D