They like helping it without directly adding a combo specific card, such as with Emperor Thaurissan opening up combos.
A lot of combos try to kill you instantly, which they don't like. They prefer combo decks that give big advantages, or take several turns to setup.
They'll try doing combo cards that hopefully won't be able to instantly kill with, but if it does, then they'll come forth and nerf it most like.
It seems to me that Blizzard are against the idea of the OTK combo, going from this. (Although Emperor Thaurissan is being rotated out anyway, but is one of things they are concerned about) The problem I foresee with attempting to force combo decks to require playing over a number of turns (aside from the fact that trying to force players to do anything in this way rarely has the desired effect and can cause backlash), is that most opponents will see this coming a mile off, with the obviousness increasing exponentially over a number of turns. And the opponent wil be in a much stronger position to combat the combo before it triggers.
For example, imagine if you were forced to play Brann (I know he's rotating, but this is just an example) on a turn before being allowed to make use of his effect. He would be wiped the very next turn (assuming the opponent has any sort of removal options). It would severely dent his playability a great deal.
Now if we go back to Thaurissan, I've often thought a suitable nerf / update for this guy would have been to change his power to a "Start of your turn" version rather than rotating him out completely. It solves the problem of his power being instantly online (without the opponent having any means to prevent it, while maintaining his usability (with a small caveat of needing to survive a turn). It means that he's not always the optimal play in most situations but keeps him useful.
Well they are lazy,they prefer pushing combo decks to oblivion istead of adding cards that can disrupt them.I mean if you worry about decks that can kill you in one turn then why not print cards that counter them?And it's not like cards like that don't exist(loatheb,dirty rat,iceblock) but they are so few that if a combo deck becomes tier 1 you can't do shit but praying for them to draw terribly.
1st off, Thaurissan isn't being rotated because of his role in combo decks, but because he's part of BRM.
Yeah, I don't know what I meant by that - I think I was thinking about multiple lines of discussion. I meant that the Emperor was one of the reasons that Blizzard were concerned about how combo decks were being utilised, etc. Not that combos were the reason he was being rotated. That was a mis-type. :-)
I must say no. Let me elaborate on this. The rotation of Emperor Thaurissan isn't caused because Blizzard don't like combo decks but it's rotated because it's his time to go, it's a part of an adventure and we know that adventures and expansions get rotated after a while so they can keep the game fresh with newly printed cards. This is like stating that Blizzard doesn't print cards like Thaurissan because they don't like combo decks. If they didn't liked combo decks they wouldn't have made the card in the first place. On a sidenote we really don't know what kind of cards are coming with the next expansion and i'm quite sure that they will print cards that will enable combo decks. Now from the article i read about the combo decks from the developer what i understood was that they don't want to allow combo decks to become way to powerfull to the point they become unhealthy to play against and they don't like it when there is no board interaction in the game and that's what they are trying to change. I think that they are going for something like the above mentioned dopplegangster evolve combo type of play and this in my opinion i emphasize my opinion i think that that kind of combo play is way more healthier and more interactive than the current one. I mean if i'm being honest i'm really tired of not being able to do anything about a concealed 10/10 questing adventurer+10/10 edwin+4/4 gadgetzan auctionear that will one shot me next turn or against a frost nova+doomsayer. I'm really qurious and excited about the next expansion i really hope they will make a big and good change to the game
Thaurissan is good, but not essential for combo decks.
Blizzard don't want to have playable combo decks in their game? Ok, time to look for another games.
Combo decks always were my favorite ones. Let's take a look:
Combo Druid (FoN nerfed)
Combo Druid wasn't really a combo deck, it was just a Midrange deck with insane burst... :P
Combo/Midrange. Usually you could play your midrange game plan in many match-ups and use combo part(s) as a finisher. But in some match-ups (like against Control Warrior) you should use your full combo plan with Emperor + Innervates + double FoN + double Roar to deliver ~50 damage. It was exciting feeling when you was able to do so!
Yes, and btw 14 damage is not insane burst from 2 cards. Double Fireball is 12, Grom + Inner Rage is 12 too.
It wasn't the fact that it could deal 14 damage from no board, it was the fact that every single minion made the combo deal even more damage, which meant that every single minion that the Druid played was a giant treat to lethal. :) Also Double FoN + Double Roar dealt 36 not 50 :P
It wasn't the fact that it could deal 14 damage from no board, it was the fact that every single minion made the combo deal even more damage, which meant that every single minion that the Druid played was a giant treat to lethal. :) Also Double FoN + Double Roar dealt 36 not 50 :P
Yes, of course you should put some Shades on board before lethaling that smart ass with tank up button ;)
FUN and INTERRACTIVE . Combo OTK decks are not interractive for your opponent, that is the case.
In fairness, there are plenty of cards and strategies that take the game out of the opponent's hands. Ice Block for example. Nothing the opponent can do against that (except mybe a curse from Warlock).
But regardless of that, the fun and interactivity for pulling off a combo move is in the cmobo itself and the satisfaction that it gives. The opponent gets to play the part of the victim! Heheh! :-P
FUN and INTERRACTIVE . Combo OTK decks are not interractive for your opponent, that is the case.
Ok, let's talk about interactivity. Same example, Control Warrior. What's interactivity in this deck? Whole game plan of the deck is doing nothing except playing removals/board clears and tanking up. In healthy game such jerks should be punished by OTK builds. Because if you do nothing - you should pay for that. And good example for that was Control Priest/Malyrogue match-up, which was unwinnable for Priest.
Honestly it's good that they nerfed 30 to 0 decks, it's such a chore to play against that, when even healing doesn't help.
As for the less ridiculous combo decks, I don't think Blizzard are trying THAT hard to screw them over, it's mostly this shit meta we're in that's too fast for combo decks. You could play freeze mage, maly rogue and druid in karazhan meta and we might see them again after nerfs, along with aviana kun druid (which is unfortunately another otk deck).
The opponent gets to play the part of the victim! Heheh! :-P
This here is the real problem. I really don't mind combo decks in fact i think that combo decks are a much essential part of this game but if i have to enter a game knowing that i can't do anything to win there is no point of playing at all which combo decks in hs tend to do and kill interaction in the game. Yes it is satisfactory to pull of a combo and kill your enemy but i don't see any satisfaction if i go into a game with a combo deck where i know that my opponent can't do anything against me. I might aswell go play practice mode than
Thaurissan is good, but not essential for combo decks.
Blizzard don't want to have playable combo decks in their game? Ok, time to look for another games.
Combo decks always were my favorite ones. Let's take a look:
Combo Druid (FoN nerfed)
Patron Warrior (Warsong nerfed)
Worgen Warrior (Charge nerfed)
Windfury OTK Shaman (Rockbitter nerfed)
Freeze Mage (unplayable in Standard (and Ice Lance 'nerf' incoming), barely playable in Wild)
Malygos Shaman (barely playable in Wild being too slow)
Malygos Warlock (some cards in Wild, too slow for the meta regardless)
Malygos Rogue (too slow for the meta)
Malygos Druid (too slow for the meta)
Combo Renolock (PO nerf incoming, should be playable in Wild)
So I don't see why I should continue with this game. I really thinking about switching into Gwent completely.
Combo isn't their issue, OTK is. These are not the same things. Something which, if I understood correctly, isn't even possible in Gwent, and whatever comes close to it will be nerfed there too most likely. Oh, and you forgot Anyfin and Aviana Kun. Have fun in Gwent anyway.
I forgot a lot of things, like C'Thun decks too. But I illustrated my idea enough. For me, OTK is not an issue, I like it. My opponent has his time and options to interupt it, kill me before. If he want to stale, he should be punished as I said already before.
Yes, Gwent is a lot of fun yet and there is nothing to enjoy in HS until next expansion anyway. And knowing now Blizzard way to develop the game... There is not much hope left.
And btw every deck in Gwent should some sort of combo in it to be successful. There is no OTK option, but you can combo insane amount of points still and win if opponent has no answers. So it's even interactive :)
(Although Emperor Thaurissan is being rotated out anyway, but is one of things they are concerned about)
The problem I foresee with attempting to force combo decks to require playing over a number of turns (aside from the fact that trying to force players to do anything in this way rarely has the desired effect and can cause backlash), is that most opponents will see this coming a mile off, with the obviousness increasing exponentially over a number of turns. And the opponent wil be in a much stronger position to combat the combo before it triggers. For example, imagine if you were forced to play Brann (I know he's rotating, but this is just an example) on a turn before being allowed to make use of his effect. He would be wiped the very next turn (assuming the opponent has any sort of removal options). It would severely dent his playability a great deal. Now if we go back to Thaurissan, I've often thought a suitable nerf / update for this guy would have been to change his power to a "Start of your turn" version rather than rotating him out completely. It solves the problem of his power being instantly online (without the opponent having any means to prevent it, while maintaining his usability (with a small caveat of needing to survive a turn).
It means that he's not always the optimal play in most situations but keeps him useful.
The only sense of combo decks is OTK. Without OTK they're more like Dopplegangster + Evolve "combo" decks.
Well they are lazy,they prefer pushing combo decks to oblivion istead of adding cards that can disrupt them.I mean if you worry about decks that can kill you in one turn then why not print cards that counter them?And it's not like cards like that don't exist(loatheb,dirty rat,iceblock) but they are so few that if a combo deck becomes tier 1 you can't do shit but praying for them to draw terribly.
I meant that the Emperor was one of the reasons that Blizzard were concerned about how combo decks were being utilised, etc.
Not that combos were the reason he was being rotated. That was a mis-type. :-)
I must say no. Let me elaborate on this. The rotation of Emperor Thaurissan isn't caused because Blizzard don't like combo decks but it's rotated because it's his time to go, it's a part of an adventure and we know that adventures and expansions get rotated after a while so they can keep the game fresh with newly printed cards. This is like stating that Blizzard doesn't print cards like Thaurissan because they don't like combo decks. If they didn't liked combo decks they wouldn't have made the card in the first place. On a sidenote we really don't know what kind of cards are coming with the next expansion and i'm quite sure that they will print cards that will enable combo decks. Now from the article i read about the combo decks from the developer what i understood was that they don't want to allow combo decks to become way to powerfull to the point they become unhealthy to play against and they don't like it when there is no board interaction in the game and that's what they are trying to change. I think that they are going for something like the above mentioned dopplegangster evolve combo type of play and this in my opinion i emphasize my opinion i think that that kind of combo play is way more healthier and more interactive than the current one. I mean if i'm being honest i'm really tired of not being able to do anything about a concealed 10/10 questing adventurer+10/10 edwin+4/4 gadgetzan auctionear that will one shot me next turn or against a frost nova+doomsayer. I'm really qurious and excited about the next expansion i really hope they will make a big and good change to the game
Stay awhile and listen!
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Thaurissan is good, but not essential for combo decks.
Blizzard don't want to have playable combo decks in their game? Ok, time to look for another games.
Combo decks always were my favorite ones. Let's take a look:
So I don't see why I should continue with this game. I'm really thinking about switching into Gwent completely.
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It wasn't the fact that it could deal 14 damage from no board, it was the fact that every single minion made the combo deal even more damage, which meant that every single minion that the Druid played was a giant treat to lethal. :)
Also Double FoN + Double Roar dealt 36 not 50 :P
FUN and INTERRACTIVE . Combo OTK decks are not interractive for your opponent, that is the case.
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Ice Block for example. Nothing the opponent can do against that (except mybe a curse from Warlock).
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what if "doing nothing" was part of the strategy? (e.g. Like with Handlock)
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Honestly it's good that they nerfed 30 to 0 decks, it's such a chore to play against that, when even healing doesn't help.
As for the less ridiculous combo decks, I don't think Blizzard are trying THAT hard to screw them over, it's mostly this shit meta we're in that's too fast for combo decks. You could play freeze mage, maly rogue and druid in karazhan meta and we might see them again after nerfs, along with aviana kun druid (which is unfortunately another otk deck).
Oh, yea forgot to count the hero :D
I moved to playing Shadowverse after this expansion because it has lots of combo decks :P
I probably won't play HS before the next expansion...
Stay awhile and listen!
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