Hearthpwn

Quote from OrangeBull »

What bugs me personally the most isnt even that Miracle Rogue is around. I see it similar to Omnislash, except to one thing and thats not MR-related. I am kind of annoyed of the nerf-policy of Blizzard. UTH was justified, But most of the other nerfs in the past months? Not at all. Why was Tinker nerfed? Nat? Warsong Commander? Warrior UTK wasnt as dominant as MR is right now and as much as MR is dependant on Gadgzetan, Warrior UTK was of Warsong. But even if you didnt have him, you still had good chances to keep up. So either Blizzard starts to be more consistent about nerfing (then they definitely would have to nerf Gadgzetan) or they do it way more sensible. In any case, as some said before, the solution will not be nerfing cards...but just adding more cards on regular basis. That will help in making HS more dynamic and prevent it from being as static as it is right now.

The real question to me would be how serious Blizzard is taking HS and how much resouces they are putting in improving the game. Compared to any other of their big games (D3, SC2, WoW, hell even FT), I think it´s just a fun niche game for them and they probably didnt really expect the success and the fast growing fanbase. But that´s just a good guess of mine, could also be different.

Pagle and Tink were nerfed because 100% of all pro decks used both. Tink was neutral hex w/ a minion, and Pagle was a turn 2 mana tide totemish. No card should be so good that no deck can afford to not run it.

Warsong commander wa nerfed because you could OTK on turn 7, with no setup required. You could literally ignore the board except for a weapon hit or 2, maybe a brawl, and boom lethal.

Quote from Baka »

I agree that playing miracle is not engaging. You just play your hand, and hope that the rogue doesn't have all the answers. It's not a netdecking problem.

This is only true if you're running a deck that is unfavored against miracle. Run something like say handlock, and you'll know they won't have enough answers.

You're right it's not a net decking problem. It's a complaining about bad matchups + FoTM problem.

Quote from ballofire2 »

I think what people hate about miracle rogues is that they don't do shit and then miraculously (hence the name) kill you from 25-or-whatever-hp in one sweep. Leaving you sitting there like "what the fuck". You can't prevent that, similarly to Freeze mages. There is little to no counter play to both decks. Zoo however, like most people have mentioned in this thread already, if you don't draw taunts or aoe you might lose.

Wow, you really are just a bad player. Aggro shreds miracle because they don't have many answers in the early game. And like aggro they can't deal with many taunts, they only run 2 saps. Freeze mage? Healadin/control warrior work just fine as freeze mage runs out of damage. Miracle will too actually. Druid with healing touch works too. hunter kills both, snipe/deadly shot and explosive/freezing kill gadgetzaan and leeroy, flare pops ice block and their secrets fuel your bow. Do I need to keep listing counters?

Quote from brentrb »

Quote from calli1982 »

Quote from brentrb »

Quote from calli1982 »

What do you guys want? A game where card choices are irelevant? Of course decks built with synergy will be better than others. Additionally hearthstone is such a young game. Every card release in LCGs or TCG changes the meta significantly. You will see you get used to it after a while.

What do I want? A game that doesn't play like competitive Solitaire. That's all.

Your mistake is to think we all hate Miracle because it wins games.

and your mistake is to think that the game should play how you think it should. THe "solitaire" argument gets old anyway. There are plenty of decks that dont play that way and i dont even think that argument holds any water for miracle. Take one of the decks that you think doesnt play that way and be happy. 

The op is talking about how people should get creative. The card pool just isnt big enough to get overly creative. The creativity will start again when there are new cards released. For now you just adapt to the meta. Thats how competitive collectible card games worked since always.

Seriously? Literally every person, by virtue of posting in this thread, is arguing for the game to play in a way they think it should. Well, I suppose that's not strictly accurate. If someone posted, "I like cherry pie" in this thread, I'd be wrong. But I haven't seen that post yet.

Don't tell me that you're not supposed to have an opinion about about how something should work. That's effing ludicrous.

That's not what he was saying. People rage against a deck and call it uncounterable because it destroys their deck. They want miracle nerfed because they can't beat it, and want the game to cater to them. Some think deck types should not exist (game be how you think it should) and others like me say that it is fine as is. Trust me there are plenty of things that need changes IMHO, but I hate BS arguments/fallacies. I'm not promoting my version of the game, I'm busting balls.

Quote from ballofire2 »

Wow, you really are just a bad player. Aggro shreds miracle because they don't have many answers in the early game. And like aggro they can't deal with many taunts, they only run 2 saps. Freeze mage? Healadin/control warrior work just fine asfreeze mage runs out of damage. Miracle will too actually. Druid with healing touch works too. hunter kills both, snipe/deadly shot and explosive/freezing kill gadgetzaan and leeroy, flare pops ice block and their secrets fuel your bow. Do I need to keep listing counters?

What are you talking about? Who said aggro doesn't beat miracle? Who said anything about neither decks having counters? Are you some sort of child beginning your opener with "WOW UR A BAD PLAYER" then following it up with arguing something that wasn't even discussed? Like what..? Yes both decks have "counters" but it doesn't take away from the fact that they're broken as fuck and honestly the only one of those decks you mentioned beats freeze mage (which is the control warrior). The healadin has to hoard cards and will always be at the mages mercy, always 1 turn behind. Your logic is completely flawed, and I don't think I've seen a hunter with flare in legend for months lol. 

edit - this was targeted at modded but I forgot to hit the quote bottom 

I'm sorry, who said little to no counter play?

And hunter is certainly less numerous after the uth nerf, but it's still quite viable.

Now to the real point, prove it's broken. Please bear in mind that's a combo deck, and the only one HS has, so keep that in mind when making comparisons.

I make the argument that it's not broken, due to the number of counters that exist, how easily draws can screw it, and the fact that its combo takes setup and can't even take place until the mid to late game.

Quote from brentrb »

Quote from modded »

Quote from brentrb »

Quote from calli1982 »

Quote from brentrb »

Quote from calli1982 »

What do you guys want? A game where card choices are irelevant? Of course decks built with synergy will be better than others. Additionally hearthstone is such a young game. Every card release in LCGs or TCG changes the meta significantly. You will see you get used to it after a while.

What do I want? A game that doesn't play like competitive Solitaire. That's all.

Your mistake is to think we all hate Miracle because it wins games.

and your mistake is to think that the game should play how you think it should. THe "solitaire" argument gets old anyway. There are plenty of decks that dont play that way and i dont even think that argument holds any water for miracle. Take one of the decks that you think doesnt play that way and be happy. 

The op is talking about how people should get creative. The card pool just isnt big enough to get overly creative. The creativity will start again when there are new cards released. For now you just adapt to the meta. Thats how competitive collectible card games worked since always.

Seriously? Literally every person, by virtue of posting in this thread, is arguing for the game to play in a way they think it should. Well, I suppose that's not strictly accurate. If someone posted, "I like cherry pie" in this thread, I'd be wrong. But I haven't seen that post yet.

Don't tell me that you're not supposed to have an opinion about about how something should work. That's effing ludicrous.

That's not what he was saying. People rage against a deck and call it uncounterable because it destroys their deck. They want miracle nerfed because they can't beat it, and want the game to cater to them. Some think deck types should not exist (game be how you think it should) and others like me say that it is fine as is. Trust me there are plenty of things that need changes IMHO, but I hate BS arguments/fallacies. I'm not promoting my version of the game, I'm busting balls.

You just did promote a version of the game - the status quo version. The fallacy is in your court, sir.

Of course I am promoting the status quo. The status quo version is not my version however, it simply is a version. There is no fallacy. In debate, you have 2 options when you are opposition. Argue for the status quo or present a counterplan. If I were to present a counterplan, that would be my version. If the status quo is perfect to me, it would be my version. But it is not, and therefore, just a version, that happens to be the current one we all play. Besides, his point was not my own, I was merely pointing out that were misinterepting his comment.

Quote from lolomfgbbq »

Modded, wtf are you talking about.

I was explaining how my comment was not fallacious. That train of thought wasn't entirely ontopic and didn't include you, nothing you need to worry about.