Ok, so I was playing a mid-range control Hunter deck right now, and the craziest thing happened. Here we go:
I was playing against a Hunter. He got me down to 1 health and played a secret. He is at 5 health and I have a Gladiator's Longbow in my hand. I play the weapon and go for the kill, but an Explosive Trap triggers, deals 2 damage to my hero, and I lose the game.
Now, I am sorry, but this is complete BULLSHIT. The card clearly says "You hero is Immune while attacking"! Hell, the immunity ice block overlay thingy appeared on my hero's portrait yet the 2 damage still manages to get through! Sure, I know the weapon was made with Immunity when attacking a minion as its main purpose/use, but the bottom line is, if it says you are immune while attacking, you should be immune while attacking!
The wording of the card should be altered, or the immunity must apply under all circumstances while the hero is in the attacking process. Either way, this needs a fix ASAP!
You ARE immune while attacking, but not after your attack when the trap resolves. It clearly doesn´t say "immune for the rest of the turn".
Explosive Trap triggers WHILE you attack. The character rises up to attack, stops mid-air, and the secret triggers dealing 2 damage. Evidence to the fact that something IS wrong is that, as I said in my OP, the blue immunity block was still on my hero's portrait when I took damage, which makes no sense. The blue immunity block only appears when you attack with the weapon, and the damage went through while it was active!
If this was Eye for an Eye, I wouldn't be reporting this, but it isn't!
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
You ARE immune while attacking, but not after your attack when the trap resolves. It clearly doesn´t say "immune for the rest of the turn".
Explosive Trap triggers WHILE you attack. The character rises up to attack, stops mid-air, and the secret triggers dealing 2 damage. Evidence to the fact that something IS wrong is that, as I said in my OP, the blue immunity block was still on my hero's portrait when I took damage, which makes no sense. The blue immunity block only appears when you attack with the weapon, and the damage went through while it was active!
If this was Eye for an Eye, I wouldn't be reporting this, but it isn't!
I agree that the animation is messed up and should be fixed but the results should not, it is working as intended. The trap triggers before you fulfill the attack and therfore you should never have been immune. This is why the animation needs fixed because that is actually the only thing making the scenario confusing.
Hmm.. I guess Explosive is triggered when an attack is declared against the hero so your immunity isn't applied yet because technically you aren't "attacking" yet.
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
You ARE immune while attacking, but not after your attack when the trap resolves. It clearly doesn´t say "immune for the rest of the turn".
Explosive Trap triggers WHILE you attack. The character rises up to attack, stops mid-air, and the secret triggers dealing 2 damage. Evidence to the fact that something IS wrong is that, as I said in my OP, the blue immunity block was still on my hero's portrait when I took damage, which makes no sense. The blue immunity block only appears when you attack with the weapon, and the damage went through while it was active!
If this was Eye for an Eye, I wouldn't be reporting this, but it isn't!
I agree that the animation is messed up and should be fixed but the results should not, it is working as intended. The trap triggers before you fulfill the attack and therfore you should never have been immune. This is why the animation needs fixed because that is actually the only thing making the scenario confusing.
Hmm.. I guess Explosive is triggered when an attack is declared against the hero so your immunity isn't applied yet because technically you aren't "attacking" yet.
(For both posts): By your logic, Explosive Trap shouldn't trigger either because, 'technically', the hero hasn't been attacked yet. Both cards use the same key word; 'attack', so why should one card trigger its effect before the other? If Explosive Trap's damage effect procs at a declaration, then its only fair if Gladiator's Longbow's immunity procs at a declaration too, isn't it? In FACT, the animation DOES show that the immunity procs at a declaration, yet that immunity never actually comes into play and you still receive damage.
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
Secrets are HS's instants, they resolve before whatever action proc'd them (most of the time).
It technically makes sense why you lost, though I agree it is frustrating.
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Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
Actually Explosive Trap triggers off before an attack regardless of wording. That's why minions die b4 landing blows.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
Secrets are HS's instants, they resolve before whatever action proc'd them (most of the time).
It technically makes sense why you lost, though I agree it is frustrating.
I get that. But follow with me on this one; I've underlined the key terms that are written on the cards. The trap can only trigger when the hero is being attacked. If the hero is being attacked, that means I'm attacking. If I'm attacking (with the weapon), that means I'm immune, since "You hero is Immune while attacking". No immunity means I'm not attacking, which means the hero isn't being attacked, which means the trap shouldn't proc. Its as simple as that.
Actually Explosive Trap triggers off before an attack regardless of wording. That's why minions die b4 landing blows.
... and Gladiator's Longbow's Immunity triggers before the blow is landed as well, (technically, at the same time as Explosive Trap) so why should I be taking damage?
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
Secrets are HS's instants, they resolve before whatever action proc'd them (most of the time).
It technically makes sense why you lost, though I agree it is frustrating.
I get that. But follow with me on this one; I've underlined the key terms that are written on the cards. The trap can only trigger when the hero is being attacked. If the hero is being attacked, that means I'm attacking. If I'm attacking (with the weapon), that means I'm immune, since "You hero is Immune while attacking". No immunity means I'm not attacking, which means the hero isn't being attacked, which means the trap shouldn't proc. Its as simple as that.
Yes, "attack" is the key word here. Your and our definition of "attack" is slightly different than what Blizzard's must be. We think of "attack" as everything that happens the moment we slide a card or hero onto another. Blizzard must think that "attack" is only the moment of impact when damage is taken. Therefore, when you "attacked" the hero, you only actually *started attacking* and the trap stopped you before you could "attack" and therefore you were not yet immune. Had you actually attacked, the hero would have taken the damage (according to my interpretation of of what I think Blizzard means by attack).
But still, yes, all very confusing. The words "attack" and "immune" are both too general and open to interpretation in this case. It seems like the actual behavior is "Your hero can't take damage from enemy minions when you attack them" or something like that.
Secrets...more secretive than we ever thought, I guess.
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
Secrets are HS's instants, they resolve before whatever action proc'd them (most of the time).
It technically makes sense why you lost, though I agree it is frustrating.
I get that. But follow with me on this one; I've underlined the key terms that are written on the cards. The trap can only trigger when the hero is being attacked. If the hero is being attacked, that means I'm attacking. If I'm attacking (with the weapon), that means I'm immune, since "You hero is Immune while attacking". No immunity means I'm not attacking, which means the hero isn't being attacked, which means the trap shouldn't proc. Its as simple as that.
Yes, "attack" is the key word here. Your and our definition of "attack" is slightly different than what Blizzard's must be. We think of "attack" as everything that happens the moment we slide a card or hero onto another. Blizzard must think that "attack" is only the moment of impact when damage is taken. Therefore, when you "attacked" the hero, you only actually *started attacking* and the trap stopped you before you could "attack" and therefore you were not yet immune. Had you actually attacked, the hero would have taken the damage (according to my interpretation of of what I think Blizzard means by attack).
But still, yes, all very confusing. The words "attack" and "immune" are both too general and open to interpretation in this case. It seems like the actual behavior is "Your hero can't take damage from enemy minions when you attack them" or something like that.
Secrets...more secretive than we ever thought, I guess.
I know right :P. But if 'attack' is only at the moment where damage is taken then Explosive Trap shouldn' t proc unless damage is taken too. Seems like the term 'attack' has different meanings on both cards. But still, my argument stands:
If the opponent is being attacked, then I am attacking, If I am attacking, then according to the card's text, I'm immune (and the immunity animation shows that I am!) If I'm not immune, then I'm not attacking, and the hero isn't being attacked.
Your new wording for the weapon is spot on :).It's exactly what should be changed, because as of now its obviously incorrect, or at the mildest, extremely misleading.
This thread sort of reveals what is probably the most frustrating part of Hearthstone. I get that Blizzard wants the game to feel very fun and easy for casuals to get in to, but inconsistent wording is more confusing than anything else, in my opinion. There argument, often, is that they want users to discover what interactions happen in game, but at times like these, it's not fun, just frustrating. I think that a consistent set of wording rules ought to be put in place, and that "what feels right" is really a pretty bad way to design a game like this.
As people have mentioned earlier in this thread, you should post this on the official forums. If the mechanics are working as intended, then it could be considered a graphical bug. On the off chance that the mechanics are not working as intended, its a bug that definitely needs to be fixed. Good find, but I'm sorry that it cost you the match.
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Ok, so I was playing a mid-range control Hunter deck right now, and the craziest thing happened. Here we go:
I was playing against a Hunter. He got me down to 1 health and played a secret. He is at 5 health and I have a Gladiator's Longbow in my hand. I play the weapon and go for the kill, but an Explosive Trap triggers, deals 2 damage to my hero, and I lose the game.
Now, I am sorry, but this is complete BULLSHIT. The card clearly says "You hero is Immune while attacking"! Hell, the immunity ice block overlay thingy appeared on my hero's portrait yet the 2 damage still manages to get through! Sure, I know the weapon was made with Immunity when attacking a minion as its main purpose/use, but the bottom line is, if it says you are immune while attacking, you should be immune while attacking!
The wording of the card should be altered, or the immunity must apply under all circumstances while the hero is in the attacking process. Either way, this needs a fix ASAP!
Wow that is quite surprising... I'm so sorry you got cheated by the game. I feel your pain.
i dont run hunter but agreed that should be fixed
It is a very specific scenario, but still, it was the difference between winning and losing the game :/
You ARE immune while attacking, but not after your attack when the trap resolves. It clearly doesn´t say "immune for the rest of the turn".
Explosive Trap triggers WHILE you attack. The character rises up to attack, stops mid-air, and the secret triggers dealing 2 damage. Evidence to the fact that something IS wrong is that, as I said in my OP, the blue immunity block was still on my hero's portrait when I took damage, which makes no sense. The blue immunity block only appears when you attack with the weapon, and the damage went through while it was active!
If this was Eye for an Eye, I wouldn't be reporting this, but it isn't!
I think *technically* Explosive Trap triggers before you attack. The "while attacking" part of the Longbow refers to the damage you take from attacking an enemy minion. When you do that, you take damage at exactly the same time they do...while you are attacking. When you trigger a secret/trap, it triggers before you attack.
I agree that this is a very upsetting and misleading (and very unique and rare) scenario, but I'm willing to bet that this is why you still took the damage.
twitter.com/MattDoc
You need to post this to the Blizz forums. The Blizz people don't read Hearthpwn (or are under no obligation to do so).
If you do post to the Blizz forums, keep us informed of any response they give.
Poetic.
I agree that the animation is messed up and should be fixed but the results should not, it is working as intended. The trap triggers before you fulfill the attack and therfore you should never have been immune. This is why the animation needs fixed because that is actually the only thing making the scenario confusing.
-nttArc
Hmm.. I guess Explosive is triggered when an attack is declared against the hero so your immunity isn't applied yet because technically you aren't "attacking" yet.
That's a good argument. But, the immunity block appears not just at the point of contact with a character, but throughout the entire swinging process. Seeing the immunity block over your portrait yet still getting hit for 2 damage is rather conflicting.
Your explanation is sound, and it is probably why I took the damage. But surely, that technicality must need more clarification than simply saying "You are immune while attacking", because thanks to secrets, there's clearly more than one phase in the attacking process.
(For both posts): By your logic, Explosive Trap shouldn't trigger either because, 'technically', the hero hasn't been attacked yet. Both cards use the same key word; 'attack', so why should one card trigger its effect before the other? If Explosive Trap's damage effect procs at a declaration, then its only fair if Gladiator's Longbow's immunity procs at a declaration too, isn't it? In FACT, the animation DOES show that the immunity procs at a declaration, yet that immunity never actually comes into play and you still receive damage.
I thought the Blue users were Blizzard members?
Secrets are HS's instants, they resolve before whatever action proc'd them (most of the time).
It technically makes sense why you lost, though I agree it is frustrating.
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
Actually Explosive Trap triggers off before an attack regardless of wording. That's why minions die b4 landing blows.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
I get that. But follow with me on this one; I've underlined the key terms that are written on the cards. The trap can only trigger when the hero is being attacked. If the hero is being attacked, that means I'm attacking. If I'm attacking (with the weapon), that means I'm immune, since "You hero is Immune while attacking". No immunity means I'm not attacking, which means the hero isn't being attacked, which means the trap shouldn't proc. Its as simple as that.
... and Gladiator's Longbow's Immunity triggers before the blow is landed as well, (technically, at the same time as Explosive Trap) so why should I be taking damage?
Yes, "attack" is the key word here. Your and our definition of "attack" is slightly different than what Blizzard's must be. We think of "attack" as everything that happens the moment we slide a card or hero onto another. Blizzard must think that "attack" is only the moment of impact when damage is taken. Therefore, when you "attacked" the hero, you only actually *started attacking* and the trap stopped you before you could "attack" and therefore you were not yet immune. Had you actually attacked, the hero would have taken the damage (according to my interpretation of of what I think Blizzard means by attack).
But still, yes, all very confusing. The words "attack" and "immune" are both too general and open to interpretation in this case. It seems like the actual behavior is "Your hero can't take damage from enemy minions when you attack them" or something like that.
Secrets...more secretive than we ever thought, I guess.
twitter.com/MattDoc
I know right :P. But if 'attack' is only at the moment where damage is taken then Explosive Trap shouldn' t proc unless damage is taken too. Seems like the term 'attack' has different meanings on both cards. But still, my argument stands:
If the opponent is being attacked, then I am attacking, If I am attacking, then according to the card's text, I'm immune (and the immunity animation shows that I am!) If I'm not immune, then I'm not attacking, and the hero isn't being attacked.
Your new wording for the weapon is spot on :).It's exactly what should be changed, because as of now its obviously incorrect, or at the mildest, extremely misleading.
This thread sort of reveals what is probably the most frustrating part of Hearthstone. I get that Blizzard wants the game to feel very fun and easy for casuals to get in to, but inconsistent wording is more confusing than anything else, in my opinion. There argument, often, is that they want users to discover what interactions happen in game, but at times like these, it's not fun, just frustrating. I think that a consistent set of wording rules ought to be put in place, and that "what feels right" is really a pretty bad way to design a game like this.
As people have mentioned earlier in this thread, you should post this on the official forums. If the mechanics are working as intended, then it could be considered a graphical bug. On the off chance that the mechanics are not working as intended, its a bug that definitely needs to be fixed. Good find, but I'm sorry that it cost you the match.