Basically creating a thread mainly because there isn't one yet.
In all the decks I've made so far, the card Doomsayer has been looking insane. All the decks I build now are basically late game decks with a lot of removal and almost no minions under 4 mana. I don't think this is strange, either.
I see everyone else, however, building decks with upwards of 18 minions (out of 30 cards) and can't imagine they won't die horrible to a swarm of 2-for-1 removal spells.
I don't think you can speak for everyone, I have seen all kinds of decks including high spell count "burn decks". I agree that 18 minions is a lot, but unlike many traditional ccg/tcg's, a minion's "battlecry" effect can sometimes equal a spell. For example, Doomsayer is classified as a minion, but it is really a blanket removal spell in disguise as it removes "ALL minions" (this would imply itself also). One thing to bear in mind, for some classes, it's hard to find enough good spells or weapons with such a limited card pool.
You want doomsayer to be WoG but when he's actually going to be good they attack into him and when they can't kill him you're only killing like 1 or at best 2 guys. I thought he was awesome at first too but then I played him... no bueno.
You want doomsayer to be WoG but when he's actually going to be good they attack into him and when they can't kill him you're only killing like 1 or at best 2 guys. I thought he was awesome at first too but then I played him... no bueno.
Is the beta out yet?
Edit: if they spend time dealing 7 to doomsayer, it's 7 damage not at your face, too.
No, the beta isn't out but people have been testing out Cockatrice. I would never want to pay 2 to pitch a card from my hand to prevent 7 damage and not kill any of their cards, I'd rather play a card that actually does something and kills their cards instead.
Okay so picture this, they have 7 damage on the board, you play doomsayer and pass. Now they draw a card, play a guy and kill your doomsayer. You haven't accomplished anything but lose a card for 7 damage. They still have a board full of dudes because you haven't accomplished anything but preventing some damage when you could have played a real card and tried to gain some board position.
He's so conditional that he's only really better than another card when you happen to have 0 creatures, they happen to have less than 7 damage which doesn't happen often.
If doomsayer had like 2 power he could be good because at least then he'd be able to trade with maybe one of their guys.
It would be nice in a Paladin deck where you have a couple methods to give it Divine Shield. If the board is tilted in your opponents favor late in the game, toss it out there with a Hand of Protection. Or, in a Warrior deck where you can toss a couple taunt minions on either side of it to shield it.
It would be nice in a Paladin deck where you have a couple methods to give it Divine Shield. If the board is tilted in your opponents favor late in the game, toss it out there with a Hand of Protection. Or, in a Warrior deck where you can toss a couple taunt minions on either side of it to shield it.
Well any minion you toss out there to help defend this card is doomed as well. If you have the possibility of putting up minions to defend this card you might not actually need to put it up in the first place.
At a 2 mana investment I think this is a very interesting card. I'd certainly consider it in decks as a board clear option. In a control deck it should work well, but in any case you have minions up yourself it's going to be a double edged sword.
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It would be nice in a Paladin deck where you have a couple methods to give it Divine Shield. If the board is tilted in your opponents favor late in the game, toss it out there with a Hand of Protection. Or, in a Warrior deck where you can toss a couple taunt minions on either side of it to shield it.
Well any minion you toss out there to help defend this card is doomed as well. If you have the possibility of putting up minions to defend this card you might not actually need to put it up in the first place.
At a 2 mana investment I think this is a very interesting card. I'd certainly consider it in decks as a board clear option. In a control deck it should work well, but in any case you have minions up yourself it's going to be a double edged sword.
You can always save 1 in your hand for a rainy day. I would probably have 1 copy of him in my deck. He could be pretty powerful on occasion but also easyly killed with Shadow Word: Pain or Crazed Alchemist. So it all depends how you use it cause even if you have taunt minions or divine shield a Crazed Alchemist will kill it. But it can also kill a Deathwing or sth.
Nah, Deathwing has 12 attack, anything with 7 attack or more is safe, it will just take 1 turn away from damaging something else. For 2 mana that might not be such a bad deal tbh. For anything with 7 attack or more though, you can put a Big Game Hunter in your deck though to take them out. Combining the 2 in a control deck will be very nice.
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Yh I never thought of Big Game Hunter and Doomsayer combo, covering all situations other than lots of small minions that add up to 7. But with sth like that all classes have aoe spells to make use of.
I never realised but silence is very effecting against him making him completely useless and occupy unwanted space.
Yeah, but using a silence on him means they can't silence a different card, so even drawing out a silence on him isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is probably trouble cause all the minions stay up, but hey, you need to be prepared for that to happen. 1 card/trick doesn't make a control deck, you need more up your sleeve then just this.
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I will probably have a priest deck with bazillion silences (8 total- 2from each Mass Dispel, Silence, Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker) so I would probably use it on him if I have minions in play and he doesn't. Though I will also probably have 1 Doomsayer myself to use in the opposite situation.
I dont think keeping one of them "just in case" is a good strategy. It's like keeping 1 Secretkeeper, just because it can get strong. You either build a deck that can support the card, or not put it in at all, because these random "it might be good" cards are the ones that usually weaken the decks (I saw so many examples of thin Yugioh, that it pains my heart). Of curse I'm not saying single copies of non-Legendary cards can't be good, but only if they fit the theme, and more than one would be excessive.
Okay so picture this, they have 7 damage on the board, you play doomsayer and pass. Now they draw a card, play a guy and kill your doomsayer. You haven't accomplished anything but lose a card for 7 damage. They still have a board full of dudes because you haven't accomplished anything but preventing some damage when you could have played a real card and tried to gain some board position.
You gained a lot actually, an extra card, and extra mana crystal, and another chance to use your hero power. Taking your opponents focus off of you is great for slower decks to deal with aggro decks, look at Liliana of the Veil in Standard MTG right now. She comes down, makes them sac a creature. Okay, they have like, 3 more, but then they waste a turn swinging with one (or more fearing removal) taking Liliana out because they don't want it to happen again. This buys the slower a turn to draw another out, or a creature to deal with their attack, same thing can, and most likely will, happen in Hearthstone.
Just to continue the thread, I tried out Hearthstone on Cockatrice. Mage decks certainly don't need Doomsayer - because you have a lot of Spell power and utility creatures you need to abuse, playing Doomsayer is not a great idea. Doomsayer was good with Cone of Cold when I played him though.
He got replace with Sunwalker; the 6 cost 4/5 divine shield, taunt. This card, however, has been a godsend to not dying to hero-based attacking decks.
I wouldn't wanna waste a stealth on it though. Assuming you're using conceal and not the minion (since it will die) much rather stealth a knife juggler.
I will probably have a priest deck with bazillion silences (8 total- 2from each Mass Dispel, Silence, Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker) so I would probably use it on him if I have minions in play and he doesn't. Though I will also probably have 1 Doomsayer myself to use in the opposite situation.
Priest also seems to be one of the few classes that can make use of a silenced Doomsayer, just Inner Fire that bad boy and you've got a 7 power/7 health minion to use.
Doomsayer overall seems kinda weak to me, you likely won't want to board wipe that early and the low mana crystal cost doesn't really allow you develop your board on the same turn since anything else you play is also in danger of dying. If you want to play a control deck with lots of AoE removal stick to warlock or mage and use spells that are certain to accomplish it (Twisting Nether, Hellfire, Blizzard, etc), instead of mass removal that is delayed a turn and can easily be countered.
I think Doomsayer will mostly wind up in quirky decks that need mass removal but for some reason want to be piloted by a class that doesn't have any good options.
Basically creating a thread mainly because there isn't one yet.
In all the decks I've made so far, the card Doomsayer has been looking insane. All the decks I build now are basically late game decks with a lot of removal and almost no minions under 4 mana. I don't think this is strange, either.
I see everyone else, however, building decks with upwards of 18 minions (out of 30 cards) and can't imagine they won't die horrible to a swarm of 2-for-1 removal spells.
I don't think you can speak for everyone, I have seen all kinds of decks including high spell count "burn decks".
I agree that 18 minions is a lot, but unlike many traditional ccg/tcg's, a minion's "battlecry" effect can sometimes equal a spell.
For example, Doomsayer is classified as a minion, but it is really a blanket removal spell in disguise as it removes
"ALL minions" (this would imply itself also).
One thing to bear in mind, for some classes, it's hard to find enough good spells or weapons with such a limited card pool.
You want doomsayer to be WoG but when he's actually going to be good they attack into him and when they can't kill him you're only killing like 1 or at best 2 guys. I thought he was awesome at first too but then I played him... no bueno.
Is the beta out yet?
Edit: if they spend time dealing 7 to doomsayer, it's 7 damage not at your face, too.
Yeah my thoughts exactly
Let me change your mind
No, the beta isn't out but people have been testing out Cockatrice. I would never want to pay 2 to pitch a card from my hand to prevent 7 damage and not kill any of their cards, I'd rather play a card that actually does something and kills their cards instead.
Okay so picture this, they have 7 damage on the board, you play doomsayer and pass. Now they draw a card, play a guy and kill your doomsayer. You haven't accomplished anything but lose a card for 7 damage. They still have a board full of dudes because you haven't accomplished anything but preventing some damage when you could have played a real card and tried to gain some board position.
He's so conditional that he's only really better than another card when you happen to have 0 creatures, they happen to have less than 7 damage which doesn't happen often.
If doomsayer had like 2 power he could be good because at least then he'd be able to trade with maybe one of their guys.
It would be nice in a Paladin deck where you have a couple methods to give it Divine Shield. If the board is tilted in your opponents favor late in the game, toss it out there with a Hand of Protection. Or, in a Warrior deck where you can toss a couple taunt minions on either side of it to shield it.
Well any minion you toss out there to help defend this card is doomed as well. If you have the possibility of putting up minions to defend this card you might not actually need to put it up in the first place.
At a 2 mana investment I think this is a very interesting card. I'd certainly consider it in decks as a board clear option. In a control deck it should work well, but in any case you have minions up yourself it's going to be a double edged sword.
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You can always save 1 in your hand for a rainy day. I would probably have 1 copy of him in my deck. He could be pretty powerful on occasion but also easyly killed with Shadow Word: Pain or Crazed Alchemist. So it all depends how you use it cause even if you have taunt minions or divine shield a Crazed Alchemist will kill it. But it can also kill a Deathwing or sth.
Let me change your mind
Nah, Deathwing has 12 attack, anything with 7 attack or more is safe, it will just take 1 turn away from damaging something else. For 2 mana that might not be such a bad deal tbh. For anything with 7 attack or more though, you can put a Big Game Hunter in your deck though to take them out. Combining the 2 in a control deck will be very nice.
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Yh I never thought of Big Game Hunter and Doomsayer combo, covering all situations other than lots of small minions that add up to 7. But with sth like that all classes have aoe spells to make use of.
Let me change your mind
I never realised but silence is very effecting against him making him completely useless and occupy unwanted space.
Let me change your mind
Yeah, but using a silence on him means they can't silence a different card, so even drawing out a silence on him isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is probably trouble cause all the minions stay up, but hey, you need to be prepared for that to happen. 1 card/trick doesn't make a control deck, you need more up your sleeve then just this.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I will probably have a priest deck with bazillion silences (8 total- 2from each Mass Dispel, Silence, Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker) so I would probably use it on him if I have minions in play and he doesn't. Though I will also probably have 1 Doomsayer myself to use in the opposite situation.
Let me change your mind
I dont think keeping one of them "just in case" is a good strategy. It's like keeping 1 Secretkeeper, just because it can get strong. You either build a deck that can support the card, or not put it in at all, because these random "it might be good" cards are the ones that usually weaken the decks (I saw so many examples of thin Yugioh, that it pains my heart). Of curse I'm not saying single copies of non-Legendary cards can't be good, but only if they fit the theme, and more than one would be excessive.
You gained a lot actually, an extra card, and extra mana crystal, and another chance to use your hero power. Taking your opponents focus off of you is great for slower decks to deal with aggro decks, look at Liliana of the Veil in Standard MTG right now. She comes down, makes them sac a creature. Okay, they have like, 3 more, but then they waste a turn swinging with one (or more fearing removal) taking Liliana out because they don't want it to happen again. This buys the slower a turn to draw another out, or a creature to deal with their attack, same thing can, and most likely will, happen in Hearthstone.
Just to continue the thread, I tried out Hearthstone on Cockatrice. Mage decks certainly don't need Doomsayer - because you have a lot of Spell power and utility creatures you need to abuse, playing Doomsayer is not a great idea. Doomsayer was good with Cone of Cold when I played him though.
He got replace with Sunwalker; the 6 cost 4/5 divine shield, taunt. This card, however, has been a godsend to not dying to hero-based attacking decks.
Praise the Sun!
It seems that this card would do well with a stealth, as the opponent could not target him.
I wouldn't wanna waste a stealth on it though. Assuming you're using conceal and not the minion (since it will die) much rather stealth a knife juggler.
Let me change your mind
Priest also seems to be one of the few classes that can make use of a silenced Doomsayer, just Inner Fire that bad boy and you've got a 7 power/7 health minion to use.
Doomsayer overall seems kinda weak to me, you likely won't want to board wipe that early and the low mana crystal cost doesn't really allow you develop your board on the same turn since anything else you play is also in danger of dying. If you want to play a control deck with lots of AoE removal stick to warlock or mage and use spells that are certain to accomplish it (Twisting Nether, Hellfire, Blizzard, etc), instead of mass removal that is delayed a turn and can easily be countered.
I think Doomsayer will mostly wind up in quirky decks that need mass removal but for some reason want to be piloted by a class that doesn't have any good options.