Argh, I was typing a long ass reply to this (cause I like the idea) and accidentally hit a link on the page and now it's gone - so now I'm gonna reply with the quick version, sorry!
I was looking at the win-condition for this deck (Barnabus => Ultimate Infestation) and wondering if that's reliable enough. It might be, you can play and see if it is, but if not I was thinking about solving it by including the second Nourish, which works well with this deck [I'm thinking your logic here was that Ultimate Infestation replaces 1 Nourish and you might be right that 3 is overkill - it's hard to say without playtesting]. Then I also really like Deathwing here, because it provides board clear from behind. The cool thing about Deathwing is also that you only have 5 minions which impact the board immediately (Primordial Drake, Twilight Guardian, Blackwing Corruptor) and this can make up a deficit there in a way Yogg probably won't in this deck but on the other hand, Yogg can provide card-draw. Then I also think I like Earthen Scales more than Moonglade Portal, since it will often heal for the same or more (5-7 in this deck is reliable), and putting minions on the board is not a problem for this deck. The Hungry Dragons are probably the 2 minions I would cut for Nourish and Deathwing.
Disclaimer: I don't have a lot of experience making druid decks so I might be totally wrong, just some alternative venues to explore if you find you lack the power to close out games or stabilize from aggro.
Another deck idea. In the spirit of the old blood rage patron warrior decks. The plan is to cycle through the deck with wild pyro/commanding shout/acolyte of pain. Then drop free giants/set up big boards with Rotface and clones the cards back to hand.
Possibly would be more viable in wild. As rotface/bloodwarriors could be played in the same turn using emperor.
I like the idea, but if you up against an aggro deck you will have a hard time!
You only have 9 minions in your deck and they are kinda combo based: acolyte of pain + wild pyromancer + armorsmith. I would take out the battle rage, since you won't get much early value from it. Most of the times you don't have a minion on the board, so it's a dead card in the early stage. Ravenging ghoul would work fine in this deck. Animated berserker would be a good 1 drop and perhaps valkyr soulclaimer would work in this deck.
Just gonna make a 'thinking out loud' reply to this
Alright so the deck has 5 Deathrattle cards: 2 Crystalline Oracles, 1 Cairne, 2 Obsidian Statues.
This isn't enough to complete the quest so lets look at the generators you rely on:
Barnes: So you have 15 minions total - Barnes doesn't count cause he's played. Lets assume your average is playing 1 Oracle, a mirage caller, and a stonehill defender prior to Barnes, and have one more non-deathrattle minion in your hand (which I think is optimistic). Then you have a 4/10 chance to get a deathrattle from him. You'll be hard pressed to get a deathrattle from him in half the games.
Stonehill defender is a little hard to calculate, since more deathrattle minions are being added and many neutral cards we don't know yet, but Obsidian Statue being added here is probably the reason for inclusion. If we just raw include the cards we know, you'll have around a 25% chance of getting Obsidian Statue, and 50% chance of getting a deathrattle minion at all (Tortollan Shellraiser or Infested Tauren).
Mirage Caller: Has some kinky targets. Not sure how often it will find them.
Eternal Servitude: I don't know how to do the math here because of the other generators, but generally, pulling a Deathrattle from this is gonna be easy. The problem is gonna be playing the desired ones (Cairne, Obsidian) prior to playing this.
Shadow Essence: I quite fundamentally don't like this card, since a 6 mana minion wants higher stats, so the card text has to be worth almost 2 mana to pay off. This deck wants Lyra, Cairne or Obsidian Statues (I don't think radiant or northshire are worth it, but would be must kill targets still). Depending on how much you play prior to, I guess that will happen about a third of the time... I think this card will feel frustrating to play.
Free from amber: Did someone do the math on this getting Obsidian Statue yet? Well, it should be somewhere in the 30% range I think.
Nzoth: If you didn't already, which is gonna be a close call, this can finish your quest.
Definitely a greedy deck, that wants to highroll for a living. As someone pointed out, Aggro is a problem. You might say you think the meta slows down, but since no cards are removed I promise you will see people abusing new, greedy decks by pirate warrioring to legend.
Another thing is, I'm not sure if you included shadow visions for the Anduin combo possibility (this won't happen too often), or for Lyra (not a lot of cheap spells to shadow vision into), but I'm not convinced of its consistency in this deck. Shadow Essence is another card I would remove if you end up wanting to find space for anti-aggro. Try to be observant of how often Mirage Callers hit a target and see if they are useful. Your win condition seems to be outvaluing, since nothing except the lucky shadow visions anduin combo, really closes out the game, but just overwhelms them with - hopefully - Obsidian statues.
I honestly don't even have time to finish this thought but I'm curious about the deck. If (when) I make a similar deck I'll probably try to keep that win-condition in mind and try to stuff in more early game removal, and then find an effective end-game package that doesnt clutter my opening hand with one of the ten 6+Mana cards - but that might be a different deck than this one entirely.
I hope you didn't think this was a rough assessment, it was just as much a note for myself as for you but if you can use any of it that's cool. I just got really curious because I want this core idea to be expressed in a consistent package.
Another deck idea. In the spirit of the old blood rage patron warrior decks. The plan is to cycle through the deck with wild pyro/commanding shout/acolyte of pain. Then drop free giants/set up big boards with Rotface and clones the cards back to hand.
Possibly would be more viable in wild. As rotface/bloodwarriors could be played in the same turn using emperor.
I like the idea, but if you up against an aggro deck you will have a hard time!
You only have 9 minions in your deck and they are kinda combo based: acolyte of pain + wild pyromancer + armorsmith. I would take out the battle rage, since you won't get much early value from it. Most of the times you don't have a minion on the board, so it's a dead card in the early stage. Ravenging ghoul would work fine in this deck. Animated berserker would be a good 1 drop and perhaps valkyr soulclaimer would work in this deck.
Battlerage is key to the deck. Lay down a big wild pyromancer commanding shout turn and finish with battlerage to cycle through the deck. This draws a LOT of cards in the old patron version it was not uncommon to draw the whole deck by turn 8. It is kind of slow as the combo only becomes effective turn 5 or so (so up until then you need to stall with slam/weapons/shield block.
I cut ghoul to fit in blood razor. Maybe I need cut one of the copies of blood warriors - make the win condition less greedy. Or maybe squeeze in a copy of brawl.
I agree though. Aggro will be tough. But should do ok vs token decks.
Very neat idea, I like it! Only card I don't really like is Kabal Trafficker I almost would rather see the one Earthen Ring Farseer for another small heal. I also think Shadowflame may be tough to target a minion, most minions are small and you don't really want to play Unlicensed Apothecary unless you have the combo. You already have 4 cards for board clears with Defile andHellfire so maybe run a second Earthen Ring Farseer? Just some random thoughts let me know what you think.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you liked it. And I agree, if you need healing or even some taunts, you can always run Stonehill Defender or Earthen Ring Farseer as you suggest. So I think Shadowflame and maybe a copy of Unlicensed Apothecary can be easily replaced so good points on that, but I don't know about Kabal Trafficker, it's a some way reliable value generator and a sort of must kill threat, but if it doesn't work is obviously replaceable.
Miracle Rogue with a twist, play meat wagon, if the enemy kills it, it spawns a doomsayer and helps stall the game. On your turn you cold blood Meat wagon and it has the potential to either draw Auctioneer or Malygos (50% chance if you have not drawn doomsayer, second meat wagon, Auctioneer, or malygos)
Valeera the hollow is in the deck only if it works in a particular way, since the wording on the card is vague with 'during your turn'. So if Valeera the hollow gives you a shadow reflection any time during your turn you do not have one in hand, then this card is great for the deck, but if it only gives you one per turn at the start it becomes significantly less good, and might be substituted out.
Just gonna make a 'thinking out loud' reply to this
Alright so the deck has 5 Deathrattle cards: 2 Crystalline Oracles, 1 Cairne, 2 Obsidian Statues.
This isn't enough to complete the quest so lets look at the generators you rely on:
Barnes: So you have 15 minions total - Barnes doesn't count cause he's played. Lets assume your average is playing 1 Oracle, a mirage caller, and a stonehill defender prior to Barnes, and have one more non-deathrattle minion in your hand (which I think is optimistic). Then you have a 4/10 chance to get a deathrattle from him. You'll be hard pressed to get a deathrattle from him in half the games.
Stonehill defender is a little hard to calculate, since more deathrattle minions are being added and many neutral cards we don't know yet, but Obsidian Statue being added here is probably the reason for inclusion. If we just raw include the cards we know, you'll have around a 25% chance of getting Obsidian Statue, and 50% chance of getting a deathrattle minion at all (Tortollan Shellraiser or Infested Tauren).
Mirage Caller: Has some kinky targets. Not sure how often it will find them.
Eternal Servitude: I don't know how to do the math here because of the other generators, but generally, pulling a Deathrattle from this is gonna be easy. The problem is gonna be playing the desired ones (Cairne, Obsidian) prior to playing this.
Shadow Essence: I quite fundamentally don't like this card, since a 6 mana minion wants higher stats, so the card text has to be worth almost 2 mana to pay off. This deck wants Lyra, Cairne or Obsidian Statues (I don't think radiant or northshire are worth it, but would be must kill targets still). Depending on how much you play prior to, I guess that will happen about a third of the time... I think this card will feel frustrating to play.
Free from amber: Did someone do the math on this getting Obsidian Statue yet? Well, it should be somewhere in the 30% range I think.
Nzoth: If you didn't already, which is gonna be a close call, this can finish your quest.
Definitely a greedy deck, that wants to highroll for a living. As someone pointed out, Aggro is a problem. You might say you think the meta slows down, but since no cards are removed I promise you will see people abusing new, greedy decks by pirate warrioring to legend.
Another thing is, I'm not sure if you included shadow visions for the Anduin combo possibility (this won't happen too often), or for Lyra (not a lot of cheap spells to shadow vision into), but I'm not convinced of its consistency in this deck. Shadow Essence is another card I would remove if you end up wanting to find space for anti-aggro. Try to be observant of how often Mirage Callers hit a target and see if they are useful. Your win condition seems to be outvaluing, since nothing except the lucky shadow visions anduin combo, really closes out the game, but just overwhelms them with - hopefully - Obsidian statues.
I honestly don't even have time to finish this thought but I'm curious about the deck. If (when) I make a similar deck I'll probably try to keep that win-condition in mind and try to stuff in more early game removal, and then find an effective end-game package that doesnt clutter my opening hand with one of the ten 6+Mana cards - but that might be a different deck than this one entirely.
I hope you didn't think this was a rough assessment, it was just as much a note for myself as for you but if you can use any of it that's cool. I just got really curious because I want this core idea to be expressed in a consistent package.
Thanks for sharing and good luck with it :)
Wow thanks for the long post! I appreciate you took the time write this massive post with feedback!
The amount of deathrattle minions is low I agree. The goal of the deck isn't to finish the quest super early, however this is a problem and needs some tweeking.
Barnes is still a good card in this deck I think. Though sometimes it will hit a useless minion.
Stonehill defender doesn't really have the purpose to hit Obsidian Statue, but more of a midrange minion that cost 4-7 mana. It's purpose is to stall and get through the beginning of the game.
Mirage caller will be super greedy ofcourse... but might be replaced wth other minions that can contest the board, such as kabal talonpriest.
Shadow essence is another greedy card, that sometimes will hit it's target and sometimes hit a less target, but I'll be experimenting with this a lot!
Free from amber, I'm not too sure what the odds are, but since obsidian statue is the only priest minion that cost 8 mana or more, I think it might show up more times than you think, since it's from your own class.
I'm aware that this deck is greedy, but if it rolls well it can be spectacular I believe.
I'm curious to know which replacements and for what cards you have in mind!
Wow thanks for the long post! I appreciate you took the time write this massive post with feedback!
The amount of deathrattle minions is low I agree. The goal of the deck isn't to finish the quest super early, however this is a problem and needs some tweeking.
Barnes is still a good card in this deck I think. Though sometimes it will hit a useless minion.
Stonehill defender doesn't really have the purpose to hit Obsidian Statue, but more of a midrange minion that cost 4-7 mana. It's purpose is to stall and get through the beginning of the game.
Mirage caller will be super greedy ofcourse... but might be replaced wth other minions that can contest the board, such as kabal talonpriest.
Shadow essence is another greedy card, that sometimes will hit it's target and sometimes hit a less target, but I'll be experimenting with this a lot!
Free from amber, I'm not too sure what the odds are, but since obsidian statue is the only priest minion that cost 8 mana or more, I think it might show up more times than you think, since it's from your own class.
I'm aware that this deck is greedy, but if it rolls well it can be spectacular I believe.
I'm curious to know which replacements and for what cards you have in mind!
Again thanks for your reply!
Alright, I'm back again let's see where I left off haha.
I'll try to reply to your comments first then move on to looking at the card choices. I'm also gonna be sticking to my 'train of thought' writing because otherwise these posts will take ages, so I'm sorry up front if something is unclear.
If you can stay alive, and the gameplan is to just outvalue the opponent, then I don't think the amount of deathrattles is an issue. There's clearly enough generators as it is to activate the quest in 99% of games, so I'm not too worried about that.
I also don't think I would replace Barnes, since the game where he does fetch a statue are probably free wins if you have the servitude ready to follow up, and the downside isn't too bad.
Stonehill defender can work in this deck instead of kabal courier. Better against aggro and will have a decent chance to give either Shellraiser or just a midgame minion as you mentioned.
Mirage is probably the card that can give you some personal flavor, but is not necessarily the optimal choice. It suffers a bit from 'win more' by requiring a desireable target to stick to the board, OR it can cause you to keep another minion for longer than you should in an attempt to combo it, at which point you may be behind. If we take this out we have to remember it helps complete the quest.
Shadow essence. As it is in this deck, I don't think it's worth it. However, I think this deck should run 2 radiant elementals, 2 pw:shield (as you already do), 2 potion of madness and sw:pain. If those are included then I think it's worth keeping. This will also help feed Lyra.
Free from amber: [Edit] I ended up cutting it, but the 30ish percentage gauge should be correct, both taking into account class preference and 3 choices coming up. Not taking into account new cards though.
This was also just a rundown of the generators which was all i made it to do earlier. Not necessarily what I considered the weakest spots of the deck. Now I'm gonna have a look at the cards based on some different criteria.
One thing I missed earlier is that N'zoth can be a win-condition as well, but only if we can generate a few more deathrattles, because if Obsidian statues are polymorphed, hexed, devolved, entombed or similar, then it's gonna be a fairly weak n'zoth.
So, the first and most obvious thing is that the generator package is inflated. This confirms my initial reaction that taking out 2 mirage callers and 2 shadow essence will free up some space.
Northshire clerics are actually not that useful if your gameplan is attrition. I think I'm going to work it more towards n'zoth actually, since this has a way to at least outpace a jade druid, which is probably gonna keep being a pretty prominent deck considering how strong it is right now. So I'd like to keep them for draws, or maybe as a one-off. I'll also keep Anduin, since a jade druid could easily have 5-10 jades around the time you want to play him, and he'll clean that up nicely, as well as any new and greedy decks like a rogue DK that summons 3 arcane giants.
If we move away from attrition the Elise also becomes more questionable. Although it is always strong in conjunction with shadow visions.
I also don't know how to get around it right now, but 2 statues, 2 ambers, anduin, and nzoth, just seems like too much - we want to make a lategame plan with 4 cards I think (or involving more flex cards, which can also stall - Lyra, for example, can be a win condition sometimes too). .
One way to make a lategame package is 2 Ambers, Medivh, Nzoth. But this way we don't get the statues for barnes or eternal servitude. Probably we'd have to remove the 2 free from amber, but then we also move away from an attrition plan and make anduin slightly weaker.
Some things I'm playing around with: Bloodmage thalnos + 2x spirit lash.... Holy nova? Deathrattle + survivability, but little spelldamage benefit makes me think if it's better than just loot hoarders; is also not valuable from N'zoth.
Shifting shade is a card I'm tempted to take in place of the two shadow essences, its contenders being Priest of the feast and Infested Tauren. However, i think quest inhibits the efficacy of crystalline oracle, so I'm running shifting shade AND priest of the feast, under the logic that priest of the feast is also strong on turn 5 or 6 in conjunction with a spell.
Shallow gravedigger is an awful card that can complete 4/7 parts of the quest on their own. Make of that what you will. If other deathrattles are revealed they may be relevant.
Because mirage callers and Sw:D, will so rarely be able to be played on curve, turn 3 is often a dead turn. I've opted to try to include a shallow gravedigger to help fill out the deathrattle requirement. Tar creeper is the obvious card to pick here. Thought steal, harvest golem, kabal courier, are some other alternatives (I've also put an ooze). Acolyte of agony (the new 3/3 lifesteal) should also be a pain in the ass for aggro.
If you wanna continue the high-roll theme, Onyx Bishop is an inclusion you might consider. If you don't plan on having a board on turn 5 there's always abomination, but it has counter-synergy with N'zoth. Burgly bully can give you coins to burn with lyra and anduin, has good stats against aggro if you expect it to be traded away.
In my more end-game scarce example below I've kept Elise and shadow visions against greedy decks, given that shadow visions synergizes with the rest of the deck, and elise is a 5-drop which becomes a gap if you remove her.
This is somewhat off from your original draft, and pretty much my own starting point, but I hope that I was explicit enough about my thought process that you can see where I diverged and why I did it, then you can always assess which changes you like and which you don't.
If anyone wants to give me feedback on my elemental mage I'd be happy to have it. It's a deck that wants to run too many things for me to get comfortable with it.
It has a scaffold and mana curve which looks a lot like burn mage. Then it runs polymorphs and sindragosa for stuff to ping as Frost Lich Jaina. Right now it runs 2 volcanic potion and 1 meteor, but those are flexible and will later include flamestrike - right now I just expect to see a lot of aggression from rank 10 to legend so I went with the cheaper removal.
If anyone wants to give me feedback on my elemental mage I'd be happy to have it. It's a deck that wants to run too many things for me to get comfortable with it.
It has a scaffold and mana curve which looks a lot like burn mage. Then it runs polymorphs and sindragosa for stuff to ping as Frost Lich Jaina. Right now it runs 2 volcanic potion and 1 meteor, but those are flexible and will later include flamestrike - right now I just expect to see a lot of aggression from rank 10 to legend so I went with the cheaper removal.
I think Coldwraith while not a bad card is a bit weird in this deck, run a second Arcane Intellect as it is key in all mages and better reliability for card draw. Next I think Servant of Kalimos is a great addition to generate more elementals so add 2 of those in place of the other Coldwraith on your Elise the Trailblazer. Elise is a late game card Frost Lich Jaina is going to do this for you along with Sindragosa. Let me know what you think!
Wow thanks for the long post! I appreciate you took the time write this massive post with feedback!
The amount of deathrattle minions is low I agree. The goal of the deck isn't to finish the quest super early, however this is a problem and needs some tweeking.
Barnes is still a good card in this deck I think. Though sometimes it will hit a useless minion.
Stonehill defender doesn't really have the purpose to hit Obsidian Statue, but more of a midrange minion that cost 4-7 mana. It's purpose is to stall and get through the beginning of the game.
Mirage caller will be super greedy ofcourse... but might be replaced wth other minions that can contest the board, such as kabal talonpriest.
Shadow essence is another greedy card, that sometimes will hit it's target and sometimes hit a less target, but I'll be experimenting with this a lot!
Free from amber, I'm not too sure what the odds are, but since obsidian statue is the only priest minion that cost 8 mana or more, I think it might show up more times than you think, since it's from your own class.
I'm aware that this deck is greedy, but if it rolls well it can be spectacular I believe.
I'm curious to know which replacements and for what cards you have in mind!
Again thanks for your reply!
Alright, I'm back again let's see where I left off haha.
I'll try to reply to your comments first then move on to looking at the card choices. I'm also gonna be sticking to my 'train of thought' writing because otherwise these posts will take ages, so I'm sorry up front if something is unclear.
If you can stay alive, and the gameplan is to just outvalue the opponent, then I don't think the amount of deathrattles is an issue. There's clearly enough generators as it is to activate the quest in 99% of games, so I'm not too worried about that.
I also don't think I would replace Barnes, since the game where he does fetch a statue are probably free wins if you have the servitude ready to follow up, and the downside isn't too bad.
Stonehill defender can work in this deck instead of kabal courier. Better against aggro and will have a decent chance to give either Shellraiser or just a midgame minion as you mentioned.
Mirage is probably the card that can give you some personal flavor, but is not necessarily the optimal choice. It suffers a bit from 'win more' by requiring a desireable target to stick to the board, OR it can cause you to keep another minion for longer than you should in an attempt to combo it, at which point you may be behind. If we take this out we have to remember it helps complete the quest.
Shadow essence. As it is in this deck, I don't think it's worth it. However, I think this deck should run 2 radiant elementals, 2 pw:shield (as you already do), 2 potion of madness and sw:pain. If those are included then I think it's worth keeping. This will also help feed Lyra.
Free from amber: [Edit] I ended up cutting it, but the 30ish percentage gauge should be correct, both taking into account class preference and 3 choices coming up. Not taking into account new cards though.
This was also just a rundown of the generators which was all i made it to do earlier. Not necessarily what I considered the weakest spots of the deck. Now I'm gonna have a look at the cards based on some different criteria.
One thing I missed earlier is that N'zoth can be a win-condition as well, but only if we can generate a few more deathrattles, because if Obsidian statues are polymorphed, hexed, devolved, entombed or similar, then it's gonna be a fairly weak n'zoth.
So, the first and most obvious thing is that the generator package is inflated. This confirms my initial reaction that taking out 2 mirage callers and 2 shadow essence will free up some space.
Northshire clerics are actually not that useful if your gameplan is attrition. I think I'm going to work it more towards n'zoth actually, since this has a way to at least outpace a jade druid, which is probably gonna keep being a pretty prominent deck considering how strong it is right now. So I'd like to keep them for draws, or maybe as a one-off. I'll also keep Anduin, since a jade druid could easily have 5-10 jades around the time you want to play him, and he'll clean that up nicely, as well as any new and greedy decks like a rogue DK that summons 3 arcane giants.
If we move away from attrition the Elise also becomes more questionable. Although it is always strong in conjunction with shadow visions.
I also don't know how to get around it right now, but 2 statues, 2 ambers, anduin, and nzoth, just seems like too much - we want to make a lategame plan with 4 cards I think (or involving more flex cards, which can also stall - Lyra, for example, can be a win condition sometimes too). .
One way to make a lategame package is 2 Ambers, Medivh, Nzoth. But this way we don't get the statues for barnes or eternal servitude. Probably we'd have to remove the 2 free from amber, but then we also move away from an attrition plan and make anduin slightly weaker.
Some things I'm playing around with: Bloodmage thalnos + 2x spirit lash.... Holy nova? Deathrattle + survivability, but little spelldamage benefit makes me think if it's better than just loot hoarders; is also not valuable from N'zoth.
Shifting shade is a card I'm tempted to take in place of the two shadow essences, its contenders being Priest of the feast and Infested Tauren. However, i think quest inhibits the efficacy of crystalline oracle, so I'm running shifting shade AND priest of the feast, under the logic that priest of the feast is also strong on turn 5 or 6 in conjunction with a spell.
Shallow gravedigger is an awful card that can complete 4/7 parts of the quest on their own. Make of that what you will. If other deathrattles are revealed they may be relevant.
Because mirage callers and Sw:D, will so rarely be able to be played on curve, turn 3 is often a dead turn. I've opted to try to include a shallow gravedigger to help fill out the deathrattle requirement. Tar creeper is the obvious card to pick here. Thought steal, harvest golem, kabal courier, are some other alternatives (I've also put an ooze). Acolyte of agony (the new 3/3 lifesteal) should also be a pain in the ass for aggro.
If you wanna continue the high-roll theme, Onyx Bishop is an inclusion you might consider. If you don't plan on having a board on turn 5 there's always abomination, but it has counter-synergy with N'zoth. Burgly bully can give you coins to burn with lyra and anduin, has good stats against aggro if you expect it to be traded away.
In my more end-game scarce example below I've kept Elise and shadow visions against greedy decks, given that shadow visions synergizes with the rest of the deck, and elise is a 5-drop which becomes a gap if you remove her.
This is somewhat off from your original draft, and pretty much my own starting point, but I hope that I was explicit enough about my thought process that you can see where I diverged and why I did it, then you can always assess which changes you like and which you don't.
Whew. Sorry for the long post.
Wow, thanks for your feedback!
I like how you analized my whole deck! I don't even think of the things you think off!
I agree that the generators in my deck are too much and I will substitute some for a potion of madness and perhaps some deathrattle card, just not too sure what to substitude, but I 'm thinking about the mirage callers and the shadow essence.
I actually like shallow gravedigger and I really will consider it. We can also focus on finishing the quest as soon as possible, heal ourselfs and then try to take control in the end game! I never thought about that!
Thanks for the suggestions and perhaps there will be more intresting cards revealed that must be included!
If anyone wants to give me feedback on my elemental mage I'd be happy to have it. It's a deck that wants to run too many things for me to get comfortable with it.
It has a scaffold and mana curve which looks a lot like burn mage. Then it runs polymorphs and sindragosa for stuff to ping as Frost Lich Jaina. Right now it runs 2 volcanic potion and 1 meteor, but those are flexible and will later include flamestrike - right now I just expect to see a lot of aggression from rank 10 to legend so I went with the cheaper removal.
Deck looks nice!
Have you considered frost nova + doomsayer for early and late game removal? I could see this deck struggle against jade druid or evolve shaman.
I also feel there are too few elementals in your deck. After you've played frost lich jaina, your elementals get lifesteal and with only 5 elementals in your deck that's not a lot. Perhaps blazecaller and servent of kalimos would fit in this deck.
If blazecaller is activated and deals 5 damage, while frost lich jaina is your hero... I believe you also heal for 5!
If anyone wants to give me feedback on my elemental mage I'd be happy to have it. It's a deck that wants to run too many things for me to get comfortable with it.
It has a scaffold and mana curve which looks a lot like burn mage. Then it runs polymorphs and sindragosa for stuff to ping as Frost Lich Jaina. Right now it runs 2 volcanic potion and 1 meteor, but those are flexible and will later include flamestrike - right now I just expect to see a lot of aggression from rank 10 to legend so I went with the cheaper removal.
Deck looks nice!
Have you considered frost nova + doomsayer for early and late game removal? I could see this deck struggle against jade druid or evolve shaman.
I also feel there are too few elementals in your deck. After you've played frost lich jaina, your elementals get lifesteal and with only 5 elementals in your deck that's not a lot. Perhaps blazecaller and servent of kalimos would fit in this deck.
If blazecaller is activated and deals 5 damage, while frost lich jaina is your hero... I believe you also heal for 5!
Good luck!
That won't work.
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I made a druid control list dodging skulking geist too (but really i used it as an excuse to free up some deck space). Mine is a little more creature based. I thought it'd be pretty sweet to give Fatespinner's two modes utility in any situation. I ended up taking out my own doomsayer's to try out the new two mana drop, and to give me another reason to play Savage Roar again. Will be neat to see which plays out better in the meta.
Jade Blossom just seems bad in this deck there are no jade cards plus you have enough potential ramp with Wild GrowthInnervate and Mire Keeper. Maybe what you do is play 2 Power of the Wilds so you still are heavy on spells but can also get a 3/2 minion on the board? Not really sure though lol
I made a druid control list dodging skulking geist too (but really i used it as an excuse to free up some deck space). Mine is a little more creature based. I thought it'd be pretty sweet to give Fatespinner's two modes utility in any situation. I ended up taking out my own doomsayer's to try out the new two mana drop, and to give me another reason to play Savage Roar again. Will be neat to see which plays out better in the meta.
I like the deck only cards I really don't like is Saronite Chain Gang I don't feel like it is powerful enough without hand buffs personally. Plus two Ultimate Infestations is a bit too much... Would be clunky if you ever had both in your hand. I actually think Arcane Giants wouldn't be bad because the deck has a good amount of spells in it. Then maybe you add one Moonglade Portal for a bit of extra heal and a board presence.
I really love Control/Fatigue Warrior so i put in this List for Ppl to discuss. I think All The "dmg all" effects can be used very effectively vs Aggro. When played vs Control u can get some serious value, while cycling through ur deck. Dead man's Hand of course is a control only Thing, but in exactly that case its insane. For Rotface u wanna equip bloodrazor before and activate the Deathrattle after u played him. Most value combo in Standart would be animated Berserk into Rotface into Whirlwind + Bloodrazor Deathrattle makin it (10 Mana) 4/3 + 1/1 + 3 Random Legendarys + 2 DMG AOE.
Elise and Hatchling further Help not reaching Fatigue. U can "dead man's Hand" the Elise-Pack, or the Elise herself, to get even more Value.
Meaningless which minion gets buffed from Grimy Gadgeteer, it's good. Really hoped for more good buff cards for warrior, since i don't really like stolen goods, but i guess it's allright..
In control Matchups u should try buffing Rotface as First priority. Of course try to bait removals first.
I would like to go with Stonehill Defender for the extra Card Value, but it's hard to find a Place for him right now.
I sure think about shuffling extra Cards into ur Deck lowers the Chance of drawing the right Card in certain circumstances, but overall Warrior has lots of Tools to stay alive.
Warrior DK will have a place in this deck for sure i think, can only hope it's something nice <3.
I'd love too look at ur Try at Fatigue/control Warrior.
I have told everyone the same thing that makes a warrior, Val'kyr Soulclaimer is a terrible card and not worth a spot in any deck. If you want to fight against aggro run a second Armorsmith for sure. With all of your whirlwind effects not having an Acolyte of Pain just seems wrong. King Most can be powerful but I am afraid that he is going to end up killing off a bunch of your own minions too. I would much rather see Grommash Hellscream for some burst damage. Other than that I like it :)
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Argh, I was typing a long ass reply to this (cause I like the idea) and accidentally hit a link on the page and now it's gone - so now I'm gonna reply with the quick version, sorry!
I was looking at the win-condition for this deck (Barnabus => Ultimate Infestation) and wondering if that's reliable enough. It might be, you can play and see if it is, but if not I was thinking about solving it by including the second Nourish, which works well with this deck [I'm thinking your logic here was that Ultimate Infestation replaces 1 Nourish and you might be right that 3 is overkill - it's hard to say without playtesting]. Then I also really like Deathwing here, because it provides board clear from behind. The cool thing about Deathwing is also that you only have 5 minions which impact the board immediately (Primordial Drake, Twilight Guardian, Blackwing Corruptor) and this can make up a deficit there in a way Yogg probably won't in this deck but on the other hand, Yogg can provide card-draw. Then I also think I like Earthen Scales more than Moonglade Portal, since it will often heal for the same or more (5-7 in this deck is reliable), and putting minions on the board is not a problem for this deck. The Hungry Dragons are probably the 2 minions I would cut for Nourish and Deathwing.
Disclaimer: I don't have a lot of experience making druid decks so I might be totally wrong, just some alternative venues to explore if you find you lack the power to close out games or stabilize from aggro.
You only have 9 minions in your deck and they are kinda combo based: acolyte of pain + wild pyromancer + armorsmith.
I would take out the battle rage, since you won't get much early value from it. Most of the times you don't have a minion on the board, so it's a dead card in the early stage. Ravenging ghoul would work fine in this deck. Animated berserker would be a good 1 drop and perhaps valkyr soulclaimer would work in this deck.
Alright so the deck has 5 Deathrattle cards: 2 Crystalline Oracles, 1 Cairne, 2 Obsidian Statues.
This isn't enough to complete the quest so lets look at the generators you rely on:
Barnes: So you have 15 minions total - Barnes doesn't count cause he's played. Lets assume your average is playing 1 Oracle, a mirage caller, and a stonehill defender prior to Barnes, and have one more non-deathrattle minion in your hand (which I think is optimistic). Then you have a 4/10 chance to get a deathrattle from him. You'll be hard pressed to get a deathrattle from him in half the games.
Stonehill defender is a little hard to calculate, since more deathrattle minions are being added and many neutral cards we don't know yet, but Obsidian Statue being added here is probably the reason for inclusion. If we just raw include the cards we know, you'll have around a 25% chance of getting Obsidian Statue, and 50% chance of getting a deathrattle minion at all (Tortollan Shellraiser or Infested Tauren).
Mirage Caller: Has some kinky targets. Not sure how often it will find them.
Eternal Servitude: I don't know how to do the math here because of the other generators, but generally, pulling a Deathrattle from this is gonna be easy. The problem is gonna be playing the desired ones (Cairne, Obsidian) prior to playing this.
Shadow Essence: I quite fundamentally don't like this card, since a 6 mana minion wants higher stats, so the card text has to be worth almost 2 mana to pay off. This deck wants Lyra, Cairne or Obsidian Statues (I don't think radiant or northshire are worth it, but would be must kill targets still). Depending on how much you play prior to, I guess that will happen about a third of the time... I think this card will feel frustrating to play.
Free from amber: Did someone do the math on this getting Obsidian Statue yet? Well, it should be somewhere in the 30% range I think.
Nzoth: If you didn't already, which is gonna be a close call, this can finish your quest.
Definitely a greedy deck, that wants to highroll for a living. As someone pointed out, Aggro is a problem. You might say you think the meta slows down, but since no cards are removed I promise you will see people abusing new, greedy decks by pirate warrioring to legend.
Another thing is, I'm not sure if you included shadow visions for the Anduin combo possibility (this won't happen too often), or for Lyra (not a lot of cheap spells to shadow vision into), but I'm not convinced of its consistency in this deck. Shadow Essence is another card I would remove if you end up wanting to find space for anti-aggro. Try to be observant of how often Mirage Callers hit a target and see if they are useful. Your win condition seems to be outvaluing, since nothing except the lucky shadow visions anduin combo, really closes out the game, but just overwhelms them with - hopefully - Obsidian statues.
I honestly don't even have time to finish this thought but I'm curious about the deck. If (when) I make a similar deck I'll probably try to keep that win-condition in mind and try to stuff in more early game removal, and then find an effective end-game package that doesnt clutter my opening hand with one of the ten 6+Mana cards - but that might be a different deck than this one entirely.
I hope you didn't think this was a rough assessment, it was just as much a note for myself as for you but if you can use any of it that's cool.
I just got really curious because I want this core idea to be expressed in a consistent package.
Thanks for sharing and good luck with it :)
My idea works? Most cards i used to fill just to ask about the "combo", does it look too bad? Haha
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you liked it. And I agree, if you need healing or even some taunts, you can always run Stonehill Defender or Earthen Ring Farseer as you suggest. So I think Shadowflame and maybe a copy of Unlicensed Apothecary can be easily replaced so good points on that, but I don't know about Kabal Trafficker, it's a some way reliable value generator and a sort of must kill threat, but if it doesn't work is obviously replaceable.
It has to be snakes.
Miracle Rogue with a twist, play meat wagon, if the enemy kills it, it spawns a doomsayer and helps stall the game. On your turn you cold blood Meat wagon and it has the potential to either draw Auctioneer or Malygos (50% chance if you have not drawn doomsayer, second meat wagon, Auctioneer, or malygos)
Valeera the hollow is in the deck only if it works in a particular way, since the wording on the card is vague with 'during your turn'.
So if Valeera the hollow gives you a shadow reflection any time during your turn you do not have one in hand, then this card is great for the deck, but if it only gives you one per turn at the start it becomes significantly less good, and might be substituted out.
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The amount of deathrattle minions is low I agree. The goal of the deck isn't to finish the quest super early, however this is a problem and needs some tweeking.
I'm curious to know which replacements and for what cards you have in mind!
Again thanks for your reply!
I'll try to reply to your comments first then move on to looking at the card choices.
I'm also gonna be sticking to my 'train of thought' writing because otherwise these posts will take ages, so I'm sorry up front if something is unclear.
If you can stay alive, and the gameplan is to just outvalue the opponent, then I don't think the amount of deathrattles is an issue. There's clearly enough generators as it is to activate the quest in 99% of games, so I'm not too worried about that.
I also don't think I would replace Barnes, since the game where he does fetch a statue are probably free wins if you have the servitude ready to follow up, and the downside isn't too bad.
Stonehill defender can work in this deck instead of kabal courier. Better against aggro and will have a decent chance to give either Shellraiser or just a midgame minion as you mentioned.
Mirage is probably the card that can give you some personal flavor, but is not necessarily the optimal choice. It suffers a bit from 'win more' by requiring a desireable target to stick to the board, OR it can cause you to keep another minion for longer than you should in an attempt to combo it, at which point you may be behind. If we take this out we have to remember it helps complete the quest.
Shadow essence. As it is in this deck, I don't think it's worth it. However, I think this deck should run 2 radiant elementals, 2 pw:shield (as you already do), 2 potion of madness and sw:pain. If those are included then I think it's worth keeping. This will also help feed Lyra.
Free from amber: [Edit] I ended up cutting it, but the 30ish percentage gauge should be correct, both taking into account class preference and 3 choices coming up. Not taking into account new cards though.
This was also just a rundown of the generators which was all i made it to do earlier. Not necessarily what I considered the weakest spots of the deck. Now I'm gonna have a look at the cards based on some different criteria.
One thing I missed earlier is that N'zoth can be a win-condition as well, but only if we can generate a few more deathrattles, because if Obsidian statues are polymorphed, hexed, devolved, entombed or similar, then it's gonna be a fairly weak n'zoth.
So, lets see the synergies of the deck.
Deathrattle package: "Quest", Crystalline Oracle x2, Cairne, Obsidian Statue x2, N'zoth.
Generator Package: Mirage Caller x2, Eternal Servitude x2, Shadow Essence x2, Free From amber x2, Stonehill Defender x1, Barnes x1, Elise x1.
Anti-aggro + lyra: Pw: S x2, Radiant x1, Shadow visions x2, Sw:P x1, Sw:D x1, Lyra.
Other: Northshire (draw) x2, Dragonfire ("anti-midrange") x1, Anduin (attrition and lategame board clear).
So, the first and most obvious thing is that the generator package is inflated. This confirms my initial reaction that taking out 2 mirage callers and 2 shadow essence will free up some space.
Northshire clerics are actually not that useful if your gameplan is attrition. I think I'm going to work it more towards n'zoth actually, since this has a way to at least outpace a jade druid, which is probably gonna keep being a pretty prominent deck considering how strong it is right now. So I'd like to keep them for draws, or maybe as a one-off. I'll also keep Anduin, since a jade druid could easily have 5-10 jades around the time you want to play him, and he'll clean that up nicely, as well as any new and greedy decks like a rogue DK that summons 3 arcane giants.
If we move away from attrition the Elise also becomes more questionable. Although it is always strong in conjunction with shadow visions.
I also don't know how to get around it right now, but 2 statues, 2 ambers, anduin, and nzoth, just seems like too much - we want to make a lategame plan with 4 cards I think (or involving more flex cards, which can also stall - Lyra, for example, can be a win condition sometimes too). .
One way to make a lategame package is 2 Ambers, Medivh, Nzoth. But this way we don't get the statues for barnes or eternal servitude. Probably we'd have to remove the 2 free from amber, but then we also move away from an attrition plan and make anduin slightly weaker.
Some things I'm playing around with: Bloodmage thalnos + 2x spirit lash.... Holy nova? Deathrattle + survivability, but little spelldamage benefit makes me think if it's better than just loot hoarders; is also not valuable from N'zoth.
Shifting shade is a card I'm tempted to take in place of the two shadow essences, its contenders being Priest of the feast and Infested Tauren. However, i think quest inhibits the efficacy of crystalline oracle, so I'm running shifting shade AND priest of the feast, under the logic that priest of the feast is also strong on turn 5 or 6 in conjunction with a spell.
Shallow gravedigger is an awful card that can complete 4/7 parts of the quest on their own. Make of that what you will. If other deathrattles are revealed they may be relevant.
Because mirage callers and Sw:D, will so rarely be able to be played on curve, turn 3 is often a dead turn. I've opted to try to include a shallow gravedigger to help fill out the deathrattle requirement. Tar creeper is the obvious card to pick here. Thought steal, harvest golem, kabal courier, are some other alternatives (I've also put an ooze). Acolyte of agony (the new 3/3 lifesteal) should also be a pain in the ass for aggro.
If you wanna continue the high-roll theme, Onyx Bishop is an inclusion you might consider. If you don't plan on having a board on turn 5 there's always abomination, but it has counter-synergy with N'zoth. Burgly bully can give you coins to burn with lyra and anduin, has good stats against aggro if you expect it to be traded away.
In my more end-game scarce example below I've kept Elise and shadow visions against greedy decks, given that shadow visions synergizes with the rest of the deck, and elise is a 5-drop which becomes a gap if you remove her.
This is somewhat off from your original draft, and pretty much my own starting point, but I hope that I was explicit enough about my thought process that you can see where I diverged and why I did it, then you can always assess which changes you like and which you don't.
Whew. Sorry for the long post.
On a short, different note.
If anyone wants to give me feedback on my elemental mage I'd be happy to have it. It's a deck that wants to run too many things for me to get comfortable with it.
It has a scaffold and mana curve which looks a lot like burn mage. Then it runs polymorphs and sindragosa for stuff to ping as Frost Lich Jaina. Right now it runs 2 volcanic potion and 1 meteor, but those are flexible and will later include flamestrike - right now I just expect to see a lot of aggression from rank 10 to legend so I went with the cheaper removal.
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I like how you analized my whole deck! I don't even think of the things you think off!
Thanks for the suggestions and perhaps there will be more intresting cards revealed that must be included!
Have you considered frost nova + doomsayer for early and late game removal? I could see this deck struggle against jade druid or evolve shaman.
I also feel there are too few elementals in your deck. After you've played frost lich jaina, your elementals get lifesteal and with only 5 elementals in your deck that's not a lot.
Perhaps blazecaller and servent of kalimos would fit in this deck.
If blazecaller is activated and deals 5 damage, while frost lich jaina is your hero... I believe you also heal for 5!
Good luck!
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Ok thanks for clearing that up!
I made a druid control list dodging skulking geist too (but really i used it as an excuse to free up some deck space). Mine is a little more creature based. I thought it'd be pretty sweet to give Fatespinner's two modes utility in any situation. I ended up taking out my own doomsayer's to try out the new two mana drop, and to give me another reason to play Savage Roar again. Will be neat to see which plays out better in the meta.
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Not new or fancy, but should be reasonable. I wonder if DK Anduin is good enough here just for the random late game.