Why are secrets in this game? They aren't strategic, they are annoying and unbalanced. Not every class has access to them, and the ones that do have completely uneven amounts. "Well", you might say, "Not every class has weapons or heals and no one screams about it like this, you whiner." To that I say, "There are ways to get rid of weapons." Every deck in the game can run 2 oozes and Harrison Jones if they want. The only card in the game that gets rid of secrets is Flare. That is complete and total horsesh*t. Mage has so many secrets now it's impossible to even try to figure out what they have played, especially with multiple out at once thanks to the Mad Scientist and Kirin Tor Mage. There should not be any mechanic that lets you play a card face down. Even discards from overdraw are shown face up. How are you supposed to compete? If you some how manage to get an advantage after navigating Counterspell, Mirror Image, and Duplicate (wasting half your deck in the process) you just get Polymorphed and Fireballed out of existence. Still alive somehow? Don't worry, Flamestrike will fix that.
Secret Mage is the most annoying cheesy deck in existence. Zoo and Hunter are stoppable. You can heal or put up taunt walls and have a chance. Against Secret mage, you can't do jack. Want to heal? Counterspell! Want to play a taunt? Mirror image! It's stupid, pointless, and once hunter is nerfed out of existence next week, it will be the new Meta. People are talking about how Handlock will make a comeback, but Handlock is nearly powerless against Secret Mage.
Someone do something to make Blizzard stop this stupidity with secrets.
I dont mind playing against them that much. There are only a few of the secrets in each class that get played. They are fairly simple to play around, still annoying, especially explosive trap. Nothing like each of you at 1 health and dying to an explosive trap. Point is, I personally dont find them overpowered, but there is definitely need for secret removal.
I had thought the nerf would happen before people started freaking out about the mage deck. Personally, I am still trying to figure out a way to beat it. As for balancing the mechanic. I think the best way (without making them underpowered again) is to add a neutral minion that destroys a secret, either it hits the first one that came out, or you choose one by clicking on it. Of course, clicking on it is about as good as not choosing as it's just an educated guess anyways. I don't doubt they will make secrets for all classes eventually, though.
Hunters only have a few that are actually good enough to be in every deck. Paladins only have a couple period. Mages run at least 3 if they are playing one of the cheesy scumbag Secrets decks and those are the most balanced ones. Not to mention they have cards that give them secrets for free and gain bonuses any time a secret is in play. It's just plain stupid.
I disagree that they aren't strategic. Playing against secrets means you have to strategise the best way around them, or the best plays to make to negate the secret in the best way possible. I don't mind them at all.
If secrets were the definition of strategic, the only pro deck that has them besides Hunter wouldn't be Freeze Mage. You don't see people in tournaments dropping secrets. They play well made, balanced and/or slightly OP decks, not a random element of frustration.
Yeah, but they aren't. Play around Scientist, trigger their secrets on your own terms. It's a good deck but far from unbeatable. What class do you play and at what rank level are you playing?
The scientist is just the slap in the face on top of the other ridiculousness. Mad Scientist is the least frustrating part of the deck. At least then the secret is random and they didn't get to purposefully screw you. It's the fact that you have to waste cards and play sub-optimally just to get rid of 3 cost cards. Want to play a kick ass spell that could save you and give you a win? Not until you check with something else and waste the mana you needed because it could be Spellbender or Counterspell. Want to stay alive with a good minion? Not until you add to the problem with a chump. 3 mana is too low a cost for basically forcing your opponent to play badly or sacrifice at least 1 card.
It's just another strategy. Its no different than playing around other cards that need you to waste removal before doing something. Again I ask, what class/rank are you playing at, it can make a big difference on why you are having an issue.
You kill the Mad Scientist, the secret is brought out. You play a low cost minion in case it's Mirror. You attack with a low cost minion in case it's Vaporize, and try to tease out Ice Barrier. You focus fire their next drop (unless it's Summoner) in case it's Duplicate...(you pray they cast Mirror Image somewhere in there so you can kill one of those, instead of a Belcher or something similar)
If anything the Mad Scientist can be detrimental because it doesn't let the Mage play their secrets the way they want to.
Because, hey, none of the above? You just played your Ice Block lady, and I know it's there.
OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares.
Right now I'm playing Handlock because I refuse to sellout and play zoo. I think I'm currently rank 8. It'll be an easier climb once the Hunters are gone, unless what I think is going to happen happens and they all jump ship to secret Mage. And, actually, yes it is different. Using removal does something, and that something is exactly what you want it to do. You have no idea what the cards you play are going to do when secrets are out. You have to test for secrets which means more than likely wasting at least one card and getting crappy trades, or having your cards wasted completely. Secrets should cost more at the very least. 3 is ridiculous for the effect they have on play.
OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares.
All good advice, but any good mage worth their salt vs a hunter is going to lead with counterspell to save the other secrets from flares. But that isn't always an option. Hunter is a decent counter for this, but so is good play.
You kill the Mad Scientist, the secret is brought out. You play a low cost minion in case it's Mirror. You attack with a low cost minion in case it's Vaporize, and try to tease out Ice Barrier. You focus fire their next drop (unless it's Summoner) in case it's Duplicate...(you pray they cast Mirror Image somewhere in there so you can kill one of those, instead of a Belcher or something similar)
If anything the Mad Scientist can be detrimental because it doesn't let the Mage play their secrets the way they want to.
Because, hey, none of the above? You just played your Ice Block lady, and I know it's there.
OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares.
You say all that like the secrets are in a vacuum. They are playing minions and spells and generally making your life miserable while you are wasting all your mana figuring out what they played.
You kill the Mad Scientist, the secret is brought out. You play a low cost minion in case it's Mirror. You attack with a low cost minion in case it's Vaporize, and try to tease out Ice Barrier. You focus fire their next drop (unless it's Summoner) in case it's Duplicate...(you pray they cast Mirror Image somewhere in there so you can kill one of those, instead of a Belcher or something similar)
If anything the Mad Scientist can be detrimental because it doesn't let the Mage play their secrets the way they want to.
Because, hey, none of the above? You just played your Ice Block lady, and I know it's there.
OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares.
Nah, you forgot Counterspell, the best and most commonly run Mage secret. :D (and Spellbender, but who runs that?)
In fact, if you really tried the above sequence and no secret procs, then I'm 90% sure it's Counterspell. Because face it, no one runs Ice Block in a non-Freeze deck, which it shouldn't be if there's a Mad Scientist/Kirin Tor Mage. Freeze Mage is really easy to recognise anyways...
To respond to your comment that the Mad Scientist can be detrimental, I fully agree - there's no feeling as satisfying as proccing a CS with The Coin, and you can practically see your opponent gnashing their teeth knowing that RNGesus screwed them over and there was nothing they could do about it.
However, Mad Scientist is still a very valuable card in Secret Mage decks, just not as OP as people think. It has indeed created a new archetype of deck, but seeing a new, competitive deckstyle is no reason to scream OP.
Why are secrets in this game? They aren't strategic, they are annoying and unbalanced. Not every class has access to them, and the ones that do have completely uneven amounts. "Well", you might say, "Not every class has weapons or heals and no one screams about it like this, you whiner." To that I say, "There are ways to get rid of weapons." Every deck in the game can run 2 oozes and Harrison Jones if they want. The only card in the game that gets rid of secrets is Flare. That is complete and total horsesh*t. Mage has so many secrets now it's impossible to even try to figure out what they have played, especially with multiple out at once thanks to the Mad Scientist and Kirin Tor Mage. There should not be any mechanic that lets you play a card face down. Even discards from overdraw are shown face up. How are you supposed to compete? If you some how manage to get an advantage after navigating Counterspell, Mirror Image, and Duplicate (wasting half your deck in the process) you just get Polymorphed and Fireballed out of existence. Still alive somehow? Don't worry, Flamestrike will fix that.
Secret Mage is the most annoying cheesy deck in existence. Zoo and Hunter are stoppable. You can heal or put up taunt walls and have a chance. Against Secret mage, you can't do jack. Want to heal? Counterspell! Want to play a taunt? Mirror image! It's stupid, pointless, and once hunter is nerfed out of existence next week, it will be the new Meta. People are talking about how Handlock will make a comeback, but Handlock is nearly powerless against Secret Mage.
Someone do something to make Blizzard stop this stupidity with secrets.
BayushiKoso
I dont mind playing against them that much. There are only a few of the secrets in each class that get played. They are fairly simple to play around, still annoying, especially explosive trap. Nothing like each of you at 1 health and dying to an explosive trap. Point is, I personally dont find them overpowered, but there is definitely need for secret removal.
I had thought the nerf would happen before people started freaking out about the mage deck. Personally, I am still trying to figure out a way to beat it. As for balancing the mechanic. I think the best way (without making them underpowered again) is to add a neutral minion that destroys a secret, either it hits the first one that came out, or you choose one by clicking on it. Of course, clicking on it is about as good as not choosing as it's just an educated guess anyways. I don't doubt they will make secrets for all classes eventually, though.
Secrets are fine. And I say that as someone who mainly plays Warrior, Priest and Druid.
Hunters only have a few that are actually good enough to be in every deck. Paladins only have a couple period. Mages run at least 3 if they are playing one of the cheesy scumbag Secrets decks and those are the most balanced ones. Not to mention they have cards that give them secrets for free and gain bonuses any time a secret is in play. It's just plain stupid.
BayushiKoso
Secrets are like, the definition of strategic as far as cards are concerned.
I disagree that they aren't strategic. Playing against secrets means you have to strategise the best way around them, or the best plays to make to negate the secret in the best way possible. I don't mind them at all.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
If secrets were the definition of strategic, the only pro deck that has them besides Hunter wouldn't be Freeze Mage. You don't see people in tournaments dropping secrets. They play well made, balanced and/or slightly OP decks, not a random element of frustration.
BayushiKoso
There is nothing wrong with secrets. (I am a control warrior player but I do have a mage as well). Move along.
Secrets are ridiculous. The other classes with secrets aren't that bad, but Mage is just retarded especially now that they added the Mad Scientist.
BayushiKoso
Yeah, but they aren't. Play around Scientist, trigger their secrets on your own terms. It's a good deck but far from unbeatable. What class do you play and at what rank level are you playing?
The scientist is just the slap in the face on top of the other ridiculousness. Mad Scientist is the least frustrating part of the deck. At least then the secret is random and they didn't get to purposefully screw you. It's the fact that you have to waste cards and play sub-optimally just to get rid of 3 cost cards. Want to play a kick ass spell that could save you and give you a win? Not until you check with something else and waste the mana you needed because it could be Spellbender or Counterspell. Want to stay alive with a good minion? Not until you add to the problem with a chump. 3 mana is too low a cost for basically forcing your opponent to play badly or sacrifice at least 1 card.
BayushiKoso
It's just another strategy. Its no different than playing around other cards that need you to waste removal before doing something. Again I ask, what class/rank are you playing at, it can make a big difference on why you are having an issue.
You kill the Mad Scientist, the secret is brought out.
You play a low cost minion in case it's Mirror.
You attack with a low cost minion in case it's Vaporize, and try to tease out Ice Barrier.
You focus fire their next drop (unless it's Summoner) in case it's Duplicate...(you pray they cast Mirror Image somewhere in there so you can kill one of those, instead of a Belcher or something similar)
If anything the Mad Scientist can be detrimental because it doesn't let the Mage play their secrets the way they want to.
Because, hey, none of the above? You just played your Ice Block lady, and I know it's there.
OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares.
Right now I'm playing Handlock because I refuse to sellout and play zoo. I think I'm currently rank 8. It'll be an easier climb once the Hunters are gone, unless what I think is going to happen happens and they all jump ship to secret Mage. And, actually, yes it is different. Using removal does something, and that something is exactly what you want it to do. You have no idea what the cards you play are going to do when secrets are out. You have to test for secrets which means more than likely wasting at least one card and getting crappy trades, or having your cards wasted completely. Secrets should cost more at the very least. 3 is ridiculous for the effect they have on play.
BayushiKoso
All good advice, but any good mage worth their salt vs a hunter is going to lead with counterspell to save the other secrets from flares. But that isn't always an option. Hunter is a decent counter for this, but so is good play.
"OR, if you notice you're hitting a lot of these....play a Hunter and run two Flares." Lol. Hunter is dead.
You say all that like the secrets are in a vacuum. They are playing minions and spells and generally making your life miserable while you are wasting all your mana figuring out what they played.
BayushiKoso
Nah, you forgot Counterspell, the best and most commonly run Mage secret. :D (and Spellbender, but who runs that?)
In fact, if you really tried the above sequence and no secret procs, then I'm 90% sure it's Counterspell. Because face it, no one runs Ice Block in a non-Freeze deck, which it shouldn't be if there's a Mad Scientist/Kirin Tor Mage. Freeze Mage is really easy to recognise anyways...
To respond to your comment that the Mad Scientist can be detrimental, I fully agree - there's no feeling as satisfying as proccing a CS with The Coin, and you can practically see your opponent gnashing their teeth knowing that RNGesus screwed them over and there was nothing they could do about it.
However, Mad Scientist is still a very valuable card in Secret Mage decks, just not as OP as people think. It has indeed created a new archetype of deck, but seeing a new, competitive deckstyle is no reason to scream OP.
If the deck is based around deliberate cheesiness and annoyance it is as far as I'm concerned.
BayushiKoso