Recently, I was analysing a dead archetype - Control Rogue. At first, I was baffled - it seemed that Rogue had some rather good control cards like Anub'arak and Shado-Pan Rider. But upon further investigation, I realised that these cards weren't up to the task to save Control Rogue. I noticed three key problems that Rogue had:
a) Lack of damage mitigation capabilities (especially since Rogues rely on weapon damage for board control)
b) A Hero Power that couldn't be used every turn (at least not without replacing the weapons they'd often equipped)
c) Difficulty with Combo activation (this could have been avoided with Cutpurse, but nooo, Blizzard had to botch it)
With that, I present to you a few cards to (hopefully) make Control Rogue viable.
Design Process - This was slightly more tricky. Like I said in a), Rogue couldn't sustain late-game because it couldn't heal. I figured healing wouldn't be a very Rogue-like thing to do, so I replaced it with Stealth to your hero, a rather befitting theme considering how Rogue is all about that secret stuff. I initially considered giving permanent stealth, but it would be opieOP considering how the Rogue could choose not to unstealth and remain invulnerable. I also thought of making the Combo a Battlecry, but I figured that'd be a tad too easy to activate, so I left it at that.
Design Process - Essentially an extension of a), I thought: if you didn't sustain any damage at all, you wouldn't need healing. And thus, this weapon was born. I chose the Shuriken of Negation because, much like the Gladiator's Longbow, it was a ranged weapon and it was only apt for it to receive the same treatment.
Design Process - Like Shield Slam, but replaces Armor with Stealth. This card is pretty simple and addresses the concern brought up in a).
Design Process - This one was simple. As pointed out in b), Rogue couldn't use its Hero Power every turn unlike other classes. Thus, I made this Steamwheedle Sniper of sorts to tackle the issue. I also read up on Dagger Mastery and its OTK capability with ~7 attack and double Envenom. I figured since Envenom was removed from the game, the Hero Power was fine.
Design Process - In c), I touched on how Rogue couldn't activate combos very easily. Hence, I came up with this weapon. I thought long and hard about this one since there wasn't any reference and the closest one would be Light's Justice.
I like the idea of stealthing your hero to improve Rogue's damage mitigation ability. Giving the hero the Elusive ability (can't be targeted with spells and hero-powers) would be another option, but I suppose Stealth is more fitting.
Seeing this on the ladder would make for some interesting tech choices in other decks. Maybe Mogor the Ogre would see some play, and Ragnaros could make a comeback.
Thank you. I do agree on the counters, can't wait to see what people will tech in.
I don't understand Lesser Deadly Poison. Must you already have a weapon for it to take effect? If so, then it is a major nerf since Rogues will no longer be able to equip a weapon through their hero power.
If your intention is for LDP to equip a 1/2 weapon if you have no weapon, and +1 attack to the weapon whenever you do have a weapon, then it is not reflected in its current wording.
I don't understand Lesser Deadly Poison. Must you already have a weapon for it to take effect? If so, then it is a major nerf since Rogues will no longer be able to equip a weapon through their hero power.
If your intention is for LDP to equip a 1/2 weapon if you have no weapon, and +1 attack to the weapon whenever you do have a weapon, then it is not reflected in its current wording.
Sorry, I meant the latter. I have edited the card accordingly.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
That's why it only lasts for a turn to prevent OTK setup. Control Rogue was considerably decent, it got Kripp (IIRC) to Rank 5 before he switched to Miracle Rogue. Tomb Pillager looks good on paper, but unless you ramp, you can only get it out mid-game, which prevents you from making great tempo plays like SI:7.
I really like the idea; giving the hero stealth. That would make aggro decks suffer. I'm a control-midrange player who likes Rogue, Druid, and Paladin, and this makes cunter-decks less OP, and would most likely increase my winrate, if these cards were invented.
Thanks! I myself dislike aggro so I make mostly control cards.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
That's why it only lasts for a turn to prevent OTK setup.
What? Rogue has some of the best cycling and burst damage in the game, they don't need more than one turn to set up an OTK.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
That's why it only lasts for a turn to prevent OTK setup. Control Rogue was considerably decent, it got Kripp (IIRC) to Rank 5 before he switched to Miracle Rogue. Tomb Pillager looks good on paper, but unless you ramp, you can only get it out mid-game, which prevents you from making great tempo plays like SI:7.
Disappear still basically acts like an Ice Block and being able to stall for 1 turn is always insane in a deck with as much burst potential as rogue.
Any deck that isn't a joke deck can reach rank 5. No one ever played control rogue competitively as in tournament play.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
That's why it only lasts for a turn to prevent OTK setup. Control Rogue was considerably decent, it got Kripp (IIRC) to Rank 5 before he switched to Miracle Rogue. Tomb Pillager looks good on paper, but unless you ramp, you can only get it out mid-game, which prevents you from making great tempo plays like SI:7.
Disappear still basically acts like an Ice Block and being able to stall for 1 turn is always insane in a deck with as much burst potential as rogue.
Any deck that isn't a joke deck can reach rank 5. No one ever played control rogue competitively as in tournament play.
Freeze Mage has burst potential, but Ice Block isn't OP. I beg to differ from your second point. Even the best decks require varying degrees of skill to get to Rank 5. Control Rogue did see play in HSC2015 though.
It would be interesting if this Stealth mechanic worked similarly to how it works on World of Warcraft or Heroes of the Storm, as in when you deal or take damage in any way, you lose Stealth. (Hitting with the dagger is obvious, but doing damage through spells would still count. Minion combat, of course, wouldn't count because it's not your hero who's dealing damage)
Otherwise, those cards are even better than Ice Block and everyone knows how good that is.
I'd like to see a wording like : " If you xxxxx this turn, then you have yyyyy " ; xxxxx being Rogue mechanics such as Combo or Return a minion to your opponent's hand and yyyy a controlish effect.
I think those would be a tad too specific, but I'll try to incorporate this mechanic into my cards!
It would be interesting if this Stealth mechanic worked similarly to how it works on World of Warcraft or Heroes of the Storm, as in when you deal or take damage in any way, you lose Stealth. (Hitting with the dagger is obvious, but doing damage through spells would still count. Minion combat, of course, wouldn't count because it's not your hero who's dealing damage)
Otherwise, those cards are even better than Ice Block and everyone knows how good that is.
I did think of incorporating that, especially since I played HoTS and disliked Zeratul. Not necessarily so, though. People will tech in Rag/Ogres to combat this if it was ever implemented ingame.
I actually like the Nethershard, VERY cool and smart way to go about it and also good pricing and stats on it, well done. For the rest, not so good.
Thank you! I did like Nethershard the best, felt that it was really original. I will be receiving more feedback to improve on the other cards, so don't worry.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
That's why it only lasts for a turn to prevent OTK setup. Control Rogue was considerably decent, it got Kripp (IIRC) to Rank 5 before he switched to Miracle Rogue. Tomb Pillager looks good on paper, but unless you ramp, you can only get it out mid-game, which prevents you from making great tempo plays like SI:7.
Disappear still basically acts like an Ice Block and being able to stall for 1 turn is always insane in a deck with as much burst potential as rogue.
Any deck that isn't a joke deck can reach rank 5. No one ever played control rogue competitively as in tournament play.
Freeze Mage has burst potential, but Ice Block isn't OP. I beg to differ from your second point. Even the best decks require varying degrees of skill to get to Rank 5. Control Rogue did see play in HSC2015 though.
Did it see play? Can you send me a link?
What I'm saying though is that Rogue has way more potential for burst than Mage because of Oil and Flurry. Cards are capable in being stronger in other classes than there own. That's why a lot of class cards are class cards, to keep them from being accessed by other classes.
My bad. It was in ESL, but nonetheless it was tournament play. Oil and Flurry will always be a gimmick, it is unreliable AoE that doesn't work most of the time, so there's that.
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Just wait for Sir Mrglrg!
I don't understand Lesser Deadly Poison. Must you already have a weapon for it to take effect? If so, then it is a major nerf since Rogues will no longer be able to equip a weapon through their hero power.
If your intention is for LDP to equip a 1/2 weapon if you have no weapon, and +1 attack to the weapon whenever you do have a weapon, then it is not reflected in its current wording.
Those 'Give your hero stealth' cards seem completely insane in a more Freeze Mage Style of Oil Rogue where you stall the game out and kill them with burst in one turn. The problem with that is that Rogue has a lot more burst potential than Mage meaning that an OTK Oil Rogue could be completely broken. That's why you can't give them cards like Ice Block, which Disappear basically is.
Also wan't to clarify that Control Rogue was never a competitive archetype i the game. The reason they have so many good control cards however is because Blizzard has been pushing for a Control Rogue ever since GvG with cards like Trade Prince Gallywix. Then in Blackrock with Dark Iron Skulker, TGT with whatever rogues got, Beneath the Grounds? Really? Ok.
Also one of your points with problems in Rogue is the lack of combo activators but soon Rogues will have Tomb Pillager.
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all are op as shit but awesome
I actually like the Nethershard, VERY cool and smart way to go about it and also good pricing and stats on it, well done. For the rest, not so good.
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Those stealth cards would be op in mill rogue, 4 turns of invulnerability would make this one of the most op decks in hs I'd say.
It would be interesting if this Stealth mechanic worked similarly to how it works on World of Warcraft or Heroes of the Storm, as in when you deal or take damage in any way, you lose Stealth. (Hitting with the dagger is obvious, but doing damage through spells would still count. Minion combat, of course, wouldn't count because it's not your hero who's dealing damage)
Otherwise, those cards are even better than Ice Block and everyone knows how good that is.
Reno Druid Rank 5 72% wr // Cards: Fix Shaman and Hunter